Subject: SMML VOL 2038 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:19:17 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Monitor Guns 2: Re: civil war ironclad 3: Re: Monitor guns 4: Re: American Civil War Ironclad 5: Still more on USCG cutters 6: USS Monitor Gun Arrangements 7: Re: American Civil War Ironclad 8: Sub Lifelines - more 9: Re: Heller Hood - A Novel by Frank Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Orizzonte Mare Books 2: WEM Specials ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: Monitor Guns In 1985, Peterkin published DRAWINGS OF THE USS MONITOR - A CATALOG AND TECHNICAL ANALYSIS. This is a 583 page soft-cover book containing hundreds of mostly-contemporary technical drawings of MONITOR that he had amassed for a NOAA funded study. There are a number of contemporary drawings of both the carriages and XI" guns. If anyone is building MONITOR, this is a very useful reference. They used to be free for the asking (!) when I got mine in 1986. The complete citation is: Peterkin, Ernest W. DRAWINGS OF THE U.S.S. MONITOR. (Raleigh, NC: North Carolina Department of Cultural Resources). 1985. Library of Congress catalog card # 83-61443 Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: civil war ironclad >> I remember an old kit of a riverboat the Robert E. Lee or something like that - don't remember the manufacturer - probably Pyro or one of the old manufacturers - anyway would it be possible to use the hull and paddle wheel for some or several types of old ironclads and scratch build the rest << A number of paddle wheel river boats were converted by both sides as gunboats and rams. They were variously referred to as ironclads, tinclads, woodclads and cotton clads depending on the type of armor used. There were several kits of riverboats. The answer to your question sort of depends on several factors; first whether the kits themselves depict anywhere accurate versions of riverboats in use at the time of the war. If so, and presuming you could get accurate pictures and drawings it should be possible. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Monitor guns >> The carriages would be of the sliding type, with the gun and its mounting recoiling up a pair of inclined wooden or iron faced rails. The energy of the recoil would be absorbed by friction, the resistance of movement against gravity (up an inclined rail) and also, I suppose, by a breech rope. The recoil would bring the muzzle inside the turret to allow for reloading. It could then be run out again for firing using blocks and tackle. << There is no evidence that block and tackle were used on the monitor itself. Other later monitors may have used them. IPOF, the Keokuk guns were so rigged, however that ship did not have revolving turrets, instead utilizing pivot guns. >> I assume that the gun carriages were fixed to the floor of the turret, so they did not have any ability to be trained independently of each other. The revolving turret would make this uneccessary, anyway. The confined space inside the turret would not have allowed for any kind of independent training. As for elevation, I don't know whether this was by way of a screw through the cascabel at the breech end, or simple wedges, but naturally each gun would have been elevated independently. << That appears to be correct. The tracks were secured to the turret floor on the monitor. >> On the other hand, a broadside ironclad, such as the Virginia, would require to have guns that could be trained. Large calibre guns on slide carriages would have revolved around a pivot at the outboard end, fixed to the deck, with the inboard end moving on small wheels to make things easier for the gun grew. << The Virginia and other casemate ironclads employed two types of gun mounts, fixed at the sides which were rigged in a manner similar to standard broadside guns and which could be trained to an extent limited by the small gun ports. However the fore and rear guns in the casemate were pivot guns, designed to be run out to either side and at the end, and could be trained at all 3 positions. Some of the smaller casemate ironclads had only 2 guns, both pivot guns and 6 ports. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "David T. Okamura" Subject: Re: American Civil War Ironclad Michael Donegan wrote: >> I remember an old kit of a riverboat the Robert E. Lee or something like that - don't remember the manufacturer - probably Pyro or one of the old manufacturers - anyway would it be possible to use the hull and paddle wheel for some or several types of old ironclads and scratch build the rest - Comments? << Mike, many years ago I converted the old Revell Robert E. Lee kit into an "interpretation" of the USS Choctaw. (Unfortunately, I later discovered that my references were wrong in one major respect -- the forward casement had rounded corners, not angular ones.) I used scribed styrene sheet stock for the plating, some 15 mm wargaming cannon, and items from "ye olde scrap boxe", trying to keep somewhat close to scale (I forget exactly what I was aiming for, but I think it was 1:160 "N" scale -- had to "eyeball" a lot of the dimensions and proportions.) Considering my limited experience in scratchbuilding and kitbashing at that time, it came out fairly well. That odd-looking ironclad was certainly an eye-catcher. David T. Okamura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Still more on USCG cutters I've been informed over the years by Coast Guard personnel that they refer to their vessels as cutters if those ships and/or boats are assigned a permanent crew with accomodations allowing the crew to live aboard while on patrol or housed permanently on the cutter if it is large enough. The "cutter" designation is bestowed regardless of the vessel's length if it follows the guidelines. Some of the newer USCG cutters are also the Coast Guard station itself, as a fully contained live-aboard boat and Coast Guard facility, further complicating the issue. I believe Kurt Greiner 's posting stating that you can usually refer to USCG vessels, if over 65' in length, as cutters is generally true. A Coast Guard cutter can also be any USCG vessel type whether it's primary mission is buoy tending, towing, icebreaking, oceanography or patrol/law enforcement. Their hulls may be colored black, red or white depending on the cutter's primary mission. The Coast Guard often refers to vessels other than officially designated cutters as either vessel, boat or, of course, by the boat's official type designator such as UTB, UTM, MLB etc. Most USCG boats without an official cutter designation are not named and simply referred to by their hull number. BUT, a few small boats, not 'officially' cutters, are named as well. Examples would be the four steel (and earlier wooden) 52' motor lifeboats (MLB): USCG MLB Victory, USCG MLB Triumph II, USCG MLB Intrepid and USCG MLB Invincible. These four straddle the line, being able to sustain a crew and are far ranging, heavily built lifeboats designed as "small ships" in concept. To the general public, though, all USCG vessels are thought of as cutters and it's just as well, since any USCG vessel whether it's a small Safe Boat or a High Endurance cutter should be seen by them as official military units of the federal government, enforcing the laws and assuring safety on the sea and waterways. In Model Ship Journal, we respectfully refer to all U.S. Coast Guard cutters as USCGC followed by their full name and hull number: USCGC Westwind (WAGB-281). Ancillary craft are referred to as "USCG" with their hull number following: USCG PWB-32344 or simply PWB-32344 after the first full reference. In many official USCG reports and references, the full title USCGC is sometimes shortened to CGC (Coast Guard Cutter). One thing the Coast Guard never does is refer to any of its vessels as "ships." Which brings up an interesting story appearing in the Bellingham (Washington) Herald a few years back. It extolled the virtues of the "Coast Guard ship" arriving in Bellingham Bay for yard work at Maritime Contractors, Inc. The story was full of inaccuracies about the cutter, the most glaring was calling the "ship" a "midget cutter." What the heck is a midget cutter you may ask... Well, it's none other than the USCGC Midgett (WHEC-726) a full-sized 378' high endurance U.S. Coast Guard Cutter. BTW, John, if you ever do find the right hue for USN Buff, all of us U.S. Coast Guard modelers will be indebted to you and buying same. We'll have no problem adding a drop or two of this or that from another Colourcoats tin to make it Spar. Should be a lot easier than what many of us are doing now. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Joel Labow > However recoil was used to return the gun to the loading position, and also close the port stopper << Bradford, Can you cite your reference for the above statement? Both contemporary engravings and plans show the port stoppers being raised and lowered by a plain ol' block and tackle arrangement. Interestingly, when one port stopper was raised it blocked the other so only one gun could be fired at a time. Best regards, Joel Labow ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Randy Ward Subject: Re: American Civil War Ironclad The old Pyro kit (marketed under both the ROBT. E. LEE and NATCHEZ names) was last, as far as I can determine, reissued by Lindberg (kit #70864), approx. 22" long. For those wanting to build it as a sidewheel packet, it's not bad a starting place, but there are several errors in the kit design (which I can point out to anyone interested). For a hull for an ironclad, it should be a good starting point, as many ironclads were built from existing sidewheelers. 'Never heard of a sternwheeler being adapted, although some sternwheelers did have enclosed paddleboxes (Delta King and Delta Queen, for example). Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: NAVYDAZE Subject: Sub Lifelines - more Frank Toon sent me some more photos of the fleet boats during the war and there are no lifelines, including a nest of them tied up - may want to rethink lifelines on war boat models. If anyone wants copies of the pictures just e-mail me and I will forward them to you. Mike NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Heller Hood - A Novel by Frank Allen >> I know it seems like a lot of work, but with said book, the WEM photoetch set (and paints...get AP507B for most of the ship's surfaces, AP507A for metal decks and of course Corticene for bridge decks, plus any brand of black for the starfish and tan for the dulled teak decks), you can do a pretty good job. << Oh Frank, Frank...where did we go wrong with you? ;^) As long as you're getting the Colourcoats AP 507B (RN02) and AP 507A (RN01), you should get the Teak (C01) as well, since it is matched to actual holystoned teak; you may as well get the Matt Black (C02) and RN White (RN10) that you'll need too. As for the Corticene, try Humbrol 62 Matt Leather; it's a tad light, but that's OK for "scale effect." Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Orizzonte Mare Books Hi SMML, I would like to obtain the following books in the Orizzonte Mare series: 1 Corazzate Classe Conte di Cavour 6/I & II Incrociatori leggeri Classe di Giussano (light cruisers) 6/III Incrociatori leggeri Classe Cadorna (light cruisers) and these books in the Orizzonte Mare Immagini series: A3 Incrociatori classe Trieste A5 Incrociatori classe Condottieri I am willing to purchase them, but I also have the following books to trade for them: Tribal Class Destroyers by Peter Hodges (card covers) Ensign 2 Dido Class Cruisers by Raven & Lenton Ensign 6 War Built Destroyers O to Z Classes by Raven & Roberts Thanks, Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: wem Subject: WEM Specials OK, with Thanksgiving now under the belt for some of you (literally!)..and John and I hope you had a good one... yes, I think he misses it.. By the end of this weekend, we hope to have http://WhiteEnsignModels.com online, with a shopping cart facility, and secure encryption for credit card ordering. Bookmark this site! It's time to clear out some etched brass "SECONDS"....we have SEVEN sets of PE 3523 1/350 USS ENTERPRISE "The Airwing", normally 16.13 Pounds, with a tiny flaw to the crash barrier safety net, going out at 10.00. First come, first served ;^) http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe3523.jpg Also, two "SECOND QUALITY" WEM PE 3519 1/350 KGV CLASS BATTLESHIPS, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe3519a.jpg http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe3519b.jpg NORMALLY 27.66, NOW 20.00 Pounds PE 723 1/700 NELSON/RODNEY x 1, with a sligtly curled-up edge, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe723.jpg NORMALLY 11.08, NOW 8.00 Pounds PE 738 1/700 KGV CLASS BBs, Three sets, with some railing damage, and a few etched-out lines, NORMALLY 16.13, NOW 10.00 Pounds each. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe738.jpg PE 619 1/600 KGV CLASS BBs, One set, as above, with some railing damage, and a few etched-out lines, NORMALLY 16.13, NOW 10.00 Pounds http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe619.jpg PE 721 1/700 O/P Class Destroyer, One only, with some over-etching/missing ladders, normally 5.08, now 3.00 Pounds http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe721.jpg PE 3517, KOENIG CLASS BATTLESHIPS, Three sets, normaly 18.68, now 12.00 Pounds http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wempe3517.jpg First Come, First Served! **SPECIAL CHRISTMAS OFFER** Buy any FOUR or MORE Photoetched brass detail sets at one time, in ANY scale, and take 25% OFF!! Go to http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/wembrass/wembrass.htm and take a look at the latest offerings.. all still shipped POST FREE This offer only stands until Sunday December 8th. Our Next Photoetched brass release is scheduled for around the third week of December 2002. It will be PE 3528 1/350 IJN YAMATO/MUSASHI, and is priced at 27.66 Pounds ($42.00) This set will be etched on TWO sheets in two thicknesses of brass, and has far more details than any other set on the market. Fully relief etched throughout, place your orders now ;^) TRUMPETER 1/350 USS HORNET, this should be in the UK by 15th December... UK VAT inclusive price for UK/EU is £79.95, and price for export is £68.04 ($105.00). Remember, we're still taking orders on the WEM "HORNET SPECIAL": Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet + PE 3525 + All the Paints: US05 5-H Haze Gray, US06 5-O Ocean Gray, US08 5-N Navy Blue, US10 Deck Blue 20-B, US14 Norfolk 65A Antifouling Red, C02 Matt Black for £95.70 outside Europe (plus shipping at cost), AND £112.45 in the U.K. Post Free, £112.45 to EU Europe (plus shipping at cost) Cheers, Caroline Snyder Business Manager White Ensign Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume