Subject: SMML VOL 2043 Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:50:16 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: I love this Coast Guard thread! 2: Re: Help Finding Liberty Ship Model Kit 3: Different Liberty Ship Question 4: Re: Seafire markings 5: Steve Bennell, seafire markings 6: Osprey book on S-boote 7: Re: Seafire Colours 8: fearless 9: Captain Beach 10: Capt. E.L. Beach, SS USN (Ret) - Set the Watch 11: USS Texas Cage Masts 12: Seafire markings 13: Re: Schnellboot Book by Osprey 14: Re: Hornet Airgroup at Midway 15: Re: PT 109 documentary 16: Re: Schnellboot Book - Osprey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: I love this Coast Guard thread! >> I must take Mr. Baca and others to task for their so-called knowledge of what constitutes a "Cutter". << Hi Mike: Sure you know a lot of slang and related seabag crap, but the original question asked about more formal information and I provided what I have learned over the years about the Coast Guard to foster respectful discussion. I have dealt with the U.S. Coast Guard for 25 years, both professionally and in my model making endeavors. That includes formally working for ten years under various Coast Guard contracts to help design and manufacture specialized safety equipment. Many fine Coasties filled me in on the service and its traditions as we worked together to solve mission related problems. Guys like you usually only provided superficial info that was nice to know but not germane to the subject. I stand by my postings as written. Victor Baca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "David T. Okamura Subject: Re: Help Finding Liberty Ship Model Kit Vess Irvine wrote: >> Wilhelmshaven has had a nice Liberty ship in their catalog for some decades now. It is waterline, whereas the Halinski is probably to be full hull. The W. kit is 1/250th scale. It has English instructions. (snip) Both are of the USS J. O'Brian. << I have both the Wilhelmshaven S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien and Wilhelmshaven's S.S. John W. Brown kits, and I would recommend the Brown over the O'Brien. Both are the same price, but the Brown kit is much nicer. The O'Brien is very simplified, with two-dimensional ventilators, unimpressive printing, and horrid oversize black anchors printed on the bow. The ship's name is also in oversize and inaccurate black block letters. In contrast, the John W. Brown is very nicely printed on glossy paper stock, though this slick finish can be more difficult for glue to adhere to. The ventilators are in 3-D, and the name on the bow is correct. However, both ships have inaccurate cargo winches, the boat davits look a bit oversize, lifeboats need more detail, and there's little information on rigging the booms and radio aerials. I also had to redo the starboard bridge ladders on the Brown and detail the "monkey island" flying bridge. (Without a helm, communicator and binnacle, the open steering station looks more like a boxing ring.) ;-) I never finished the O'Brien, but the Brown is rather impressive. I had to do a lot of research on details and rigging, but it was worth it. It should be noted that the John W. Brown was converted to also carry 500 troops or POWs, and so the Brown is very different from the Jeremiah O'Brien. (Bow gun platforms different, added troop latrine and auxiliary generating station, and an elevated gun platform on the stern.) I'm actually looking forward to the Halinski 1:200 scale Jeremiah O'Brien, as it would probably be a full-hull model and I have better confidence in their ability to get it right. (In defense of Wilhelmshaven, they deliberately "dumbed down" the O'Brien kit so it could be sold at the ship's gift shop -- probably a good idea, since the average tourist might be overwhelmed by the complexity of an advanced paper model. The John W. Brown kit was a slightly later version; hence the improvements.) Since most of my complaints with the O'Brien are more on finish issues rather than its engineering, you could possibly build and paint it (use multiple LIGHT spray coats, or the paint will warp the paper as it soaks into the paper and then contracts as it dries), or use the part sheets as templates for sheet styrene. The advantage of using the patterns as templates is that you could scan and resize the parts for a different scale, such as 1:350. While Liberty Ships didn't have many railings, photoetched 1:250 railings are hard to find and very expensive. (There's one company in Germany who produces photoetched sets for their models, but those nickel steel accessory sets can cost five to seven times the price of the original model!) You COULD use the supplied paper railings on Wilhelmshaven ships, but they really should be replaced. I scratchbuilt mine, but a generic brass railings and ladders set in 1:250 scale would really be appreciated by many in the paper modeling community, as this is the standard waterline scale. David T. Okamura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Bud Link" Subject: Different Liberty Ship Question Can anyone refer me to information as to which type a particular Liberty ship was? Is there a listing of names anywhere? I haven't turned anything up on line yet. Thanks all. Bud ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: RDChesneau Subject: Re: Seafire markings Ransford: Are you absolutely sure about these colours? If so, their use would be unusual in terms of FAA schemes. The standard camouflage finish for Seafires at that time was a uppersurface disruptive pattern of Extra Dark Sea Grey (BS381C: 640; approx FS.36099) and Dark Slate Grey (BS381C: 634; approx FS.34096), with Sky Type "S" (BS381C: 210; approx FS.34424) undersurfaces. These sites are useful: http://www.faasig.org/colors/faacolor.htm http://www.faasig.org/colors/bpf.htm Best regards Roger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "bert" Subject: Steve Bennell, seafire markings I concur with "Taff" Rogers, on the position and style of the roundels on B.P.F. Aircraft in the Pacific in 1945, which was the date in the original query of Steve Bennell. Our Corsairs and Avengers carried the same markings, but the colours were a sort of mid to dark green and a mid grey. After the war was over we came back to Sydney and I was drafted to H.M.S. Golden Hind in Sydney (actually Warwick Farm Racecourse) and from there I went south of Sydney to a place called Nowra. My duties entailed the preserving Seafires from both the Indefatigable and Implacable, for transport back to the U.K. and those Aircraft were camouflaged in the same colours as our kites had been. I am aware it is more than 56 years ago, but I am convinced that as far as the far east theatre of war was concerned the "standard" colours of brown and green camouflage for Royal Navy Aircraft was "long gone" I am not "up" with Humbrol colours but navy nomenclature was DTD plus the number of the colour, followed by suffix C or S for cellulose or synthetic paint. or something like that! I hope this is not too long winded, My excuse is I have not interacted with people with such interest in these subjects before and will hope to be able to learn the ropes fairly quickly. All I ask is please dont think I am a "nit Picker" that is not my intention. Now a big thank you to WEM. for putting me in touch with SANDLE HOBBIES to start with, and an even bigger thank you to Shane and Lorna Jenkins, for this site. I think gaining access to this site is better than winning the lottery. I have found links to other sites. One in particular that is dedicated to one of my "old Ships" Now a request for myself, I have been given a kit of a corvette by revell and having been fleet air arm my knowledge of these Ship is minimal this is 1/72 scale but doesn't look all that to me, is it possible to get good drawings of these ships (I would prefer R.N.) and after market accessories. is it possible to motorise it, and can anyone out there help in these matters Yours Aye "TaT" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Robert Lockie Subject: Osprey book on S-boote Hi Dan I flicked through this at Telford last month. It offered nothing much that was new and I was massively unimpressed. Photos were small and previously published, no line drawings and the colour plates were nothing special. Nothing in it looked to be much help with modelling either, so I left it on the shelf. I suggest waiting for the Squadron Signal book, which sounds a lot more promising from what I have seen and heard so far. Robert Lockie Swindon UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Paul Fontenoy" Subject: Re: Seafire Colours Ransford Rogers is incorrect in describing Seafire colours with the British Pacific Fleet. They were actually in the Temeprate Sea Scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey on their uppersurfaces with Sky undersurfaces. There is some discussion that certain Seafires built by Westland had the RAF fighter scheme of Ocean Grey and Dark Green on their uppersurfaces, but this relies solely on individual interpretations of black and white photographs, which is inherently unreliable. Green and Brown - NEVER. The standard uppersurface colours were used on all British production Fleet Air Arm front-line aircraft from very early in World War II and the only exceptions in operational service were some US built machines and a very occasional plane that was "borrowed" from the Royal Air Force. One possible example of the latter was a Hurricane that was converted on board Indomitable into a Sea Hurricane in 1942 and MAY have operated with Dark Green and Earth uppersurfaces during PEDESTAL. Paul E. Fontenoy Curator of Maritime Research North Carolina Maritime Museum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Roger Buckley" Subject: fearless If you catch a programme on TV called Supermodels, they are constructing a 1/48th scale Fearless model - awesome :) It was on Discovery channel earlier today in the UK regards Roger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Captain Beach Captain Beach was one of the finest officers and a true gentleman. He was a bit headstrong and may not have played the "Old Boys" game. Prob why he didn't get his well-deserved and truly-earned Flag. I was aboard TRITON during her last in-yard period and was in the conn when we got the word about Pres. Kennedy on Nov. 22 '63. I respected Captain Beach more than any other submarine officer I ever met, maybe with the exception of Adm. Rickover. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: rickl454@ Subject: Capt. E.L. Beach, SS USN (Ret) - Set the Watch "Lord God, our power evermore, Whose arm doth reach the ocean floor, Dive with our men beneath the sea; Traverse the depths protectively. O hear us when we pray, and keep Them safe from peril in the deep." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: USS Texas Cage Masts I have the Leeward Publications book on Texas, but I would like to find some larger scale drawings/plans if such exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Peter Sketchley"> Subject: Seafire markings With reference to Steve Bennell's request, I believe the camouflage scheme for the Seafire F111 on HMS Indefatigable, August 1945 was Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey upper surfaces and Sky undersurfaces. British Pacific Fleet markings only had a roundel (with bars) on the upper port wing and lower starboard wing. A good colour profile of F111 NN212/S112, is shown on the back cover of the Squadron Signal publication "Spitfire in Action". I hope this helps. Regards Peter Sketchley Cambridge UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Re: Schnellboot Book by Osprey Dan Taylor asked - >> Has anyone had an opportunity to sample the new Osprey book on the E-Boat? Author quoted as Gordon Williamson who has written a number of other books on German WWII Naval subjects. Any information as to new content and illustration would be most interesting. << One of the nicest things is a two-page color cutaway of a late model S-boat, featuring details of the interior spaces, engineering compartment, etc. MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Hornet Airgroup at Midway Hi SMMLies, If you have Classic Warship's vol # 9, Yorktown class you will see in the back it list all three ships and their aircraft they had at all times. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Timothy Connelly" Subject: Re: PT 109 documentary William - Ballard did not do a scan with a ground penetrating sonar. Timothy Connelly ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Re: Schnellboot Book - Osprey I have recently purchased and read this book. Softback format of 48 pages, it contains a technical description followed by an operational history. I found the section on Developmental Details particularly interesting as it gave a very clear account of the various versions produced. The section entitled Colour Schemes I found a little disappointing but there are some small colour profiles (unfortunately no plan views) of the different types which could be helpful. The two paintings of S-boots in action are very impressive as is the cut away diagram of S-100. A low cost book which is good value for money. Regards Les Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume