Subject: SMML VOL 2057 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:05:27 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: James Cameron / Bismarck 2: Captain's gig 3: Interesting item on Ebay 4: Re: BB's paint scheme @ Pearl Harbor 5: USS 'Oklahoma' 6: Re: Authenticity 7: USS 'Oklahoma' Conversion 8: 1/700 USS 'Oklahoma' Resin Kit 9: Re: Sub Chasers 10: Oklahoma Conversion / Nevada? 11: Re: Submarine chasers 12: Re: DRAYTON/BB paint schemes at Pearl Harbor 13: The World's Worst Warships 14: Re: Andrea Gail Lines 15: Re: BB's paint scheme @ Pearl Harbor 16: PH paint schemes 17: Ships Plans & Carrier Names 18: Re: Sub Chaser movies 19: Italian submarine 20: Bismarck special 21: Re: Vittorio Veneto plans 22: Rigging in 1:1200 Scale (or "shoot me now before I really try this") 23: naming ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Models on auction 2: FS: Fujimi 1/48 Tomcat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: James Cameron / Bismarck Hi all, I just happened to be looking at a paper from December 7 and there's a story about director James Cameron and his visit to the sunken Bismarck. The article was written by the Associated Press, but this article shows they even they don't to their homework. I'll quote the writing: "The 42,000 ton Bismarck, the mightiest warship in the world when commissioned for Adolf Hitler's navy in 1940, was both a menace and a malevolent symbol to the British. Its' attacks on convoys of food and equipment from North America (which were) intended to sustain Britain were devastating. Then . . . the Bismarck sunk the Hood etc. etc. etc." When did the Bismarck ever attack convoys? Did I miss that part when reading up on the history of this ship? As I recall the mission was to attack convoys, but Great Britain sunk her before Bismarck could stalk convoys. Can't believe everything you read. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Captain's gig I've been thinking about making a Captains gig, and I thought about using the old Revell Sport Fishing Boat as a starter. I got some pictures of the USS John F. Kennedy's Captain's gig when the JFK visited Boston a few years back. I think the Chris Craft fishing boat looks a lot like one of these boats. Heck, they may even be made by Chris Craft for all I know????? Anybody ever do anything like this? The Revell boat is 1/48 scale, so that means "O" scale RR parts are available for details. What color would the lower hull be? I seem to recall other boats on deck were gray overall, no red lead hulls. And I recall the ships name on the forward hull is in brass letters, with a Western style. That's easy enough using RR decals. Any insight from some of you former sailors? Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chisum1012" Subject: Interesting item on Ebay J. Skulski's book on the Japanese Battleship FUSO is for auction. Item # 1980239948.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "George Frey" Subject: Re: BB's paint scheme @ Pearl Harbor This in reply to The paint on BBs at Pearl Since NONE of us (I don't think) were there at the time we can only guess at what the colors acutuly were. even though we have what the Navy say;s is the "Offical" colors. it all depended on the particular person painting the ship. and how well he did his job. So if we use the Testors colors, the syder and short, or any other manufactuers paint, it don't really matter since it's all up to the modeler as to who's colors he/she wants to use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: BK Dean Subject: USS 'Oklahoma' To: Michael McMurtrey Have you checked out this Site. To the men of valor, of that day, that hour, there can be no finer. Remembrance, page 2. Three of her crew recount their day of Infamy aboard the 'Oklahoma' http://www.geocities.com/bb37usa/remembrances2.html An ironic surprise end to the USS 'Oklahoma' in 1946. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Richa5011 Subject: Re: Authenticity Franklyn: >>> You asked "Who gives a gnat's (in my day it was "rat's") tail about authencity of a model?). << May I submit the gnat (or rat) as a prime candidate? <<< Carefull there fella....Some of us Nat's are a bit touchy..... Nat Richards ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: BK Dean Subject: USS 'Oklahoma' Conversion If I'm not mistaken, the 'Arizona' was a 'Pennsylvania' Class Battleship, whereas the 'Oklahoma' was a 'Nevada' Class Battleship. Quite a difference...and a chore to convert the Pennsylvania Class into the Nevada Class. I would like to see the outcome. A strong project, no doubt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: BK Dean Subject: 1/700 USS 'Oklahoma' Resin Kit There is a Resin Kit available of 'Nevada' Class BB-37 "Oklahoma' from ModelWarships.com Unknown price. You will have to fabricate the tripod mast supports yourself, but other than that, the kit seems to be a pretty good product. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Starline / Fleetline Subject: Re: Sub Chasers Hi Franklyn, I know nothing about SCs other than I remember the Glencoe kit (does anyone have one for sale out there? Even part built or built they'd like to part with [contact me on starline@netspace.net.au]) Went back and fast forwarded through the film. It's listed as 1939, the dialogue states they are the 'Gainesport Squadron' though naturally that could be spurious. The SCs featured are marked SC591, 592, 593. Printed on the windcheaters just aft the bridge is N-1, N-2, N-3 respectively. Though these three feature in a couple of scenes there are up to 7 boats heading out to sea. Alot of footage of depth charge throwers being fired, the boats being alarmingly close to each other I would have thought. BTW it's not 'special-effects' but real boats. Unfortunately in some scenes the hull numbers on the three featured boats look like they could be placards over the real numbers, with the SC looking decidedly different. Also what's the story on the real SC on e-bay for a dollar, anyone know the story there? All the best, Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: NedWriter Subject: Oklahoma Conversion / Nevada? >> In SMML 2055, annobon4 mentioned that he/she had converted the Matchbox 1/720 Arizona (ex-Revell) to the Oklahoma. I'd appreciate details of how this conversion was accomplished. Two of my mother's cousins perished on Oklahoma, and I've always wanted to build a model of that ship in their memory. << I just finished watching a documentary on Nevada - the sister of Oklahoma. Both were rebuilt tween wars; but at Pearl, were they (about) the same? As a Nevadan, I'd like to build Nevada, and I've got the old Revell Arizona kit (in two different scales) to start with ... if it can, in fact, be done. If it can, maybe the newer 1/350 Arizona is the way to go. Any ideas, anyone? Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Submarine chasers Currently on e-bay there are two excellent opportunities to obtain "finished" (well, almost) wooden hulls (only) of what seem to be 1:48 scale WW1 submarine chasers, at reasonable (for now) prices. Check out e-bay numbers 929468510 and 1924918188. If you are interested, I am sure that SMML has some aficionados of these vessels who will help you if you would like. I can guarantee one, anyway (modesty prevents me from being specific at this time). When I look at opportunities like this (and at pretty girls), I sigh and long to be 82 again. If you get your depraved jollies from something pathetic, look at 927988217, oy ve ist mir!!!!!! Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: DRAYTON/BB paint schemes at Pearl Harbor >> Whoa, wait a minute. I thought DRAYTON was the "Blue Beetle", one of the destroyers testing a very blue paint, possibly more blue than 5-S Sea Blue? << Right you are, Brooks: DRAYTON was wearing Sapphire Blue. There's a passage in a book written by her skipper wherein he recounts the crew sadly throwing the cans of their beloved blue paint over the side as they jettisoned flammables after receiving word of the attack on PH (they were at sea at the time). >> (I don't even think 'haze grey' is a color that was used during WWII. I believe it's a post war color). << Actually, there were 2 variants of Haze Gray used during WW2, but NOT in Measure 1, and NOT on the Battle Line at Pearl Harbor. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: The World's Worst Warships Saw an ad for this new book by Antony Preston, prolific naval writer: "The World's Worst Warships -- The Failures and Repercussions of Naval Design and Construction, 1860 to the Present Day". Listed at 192 pages, profusely illustrated. Might turn out to be an interesting release just in time for Christmas... MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SeaPhoto Subject: Re: Andrea Gail Lines Fritz Koopman writes: >> To whomever was looking to find a copy of the original lines drawings for the Andrea Gail: Contact Jack Gilbert & Associates down in Hingham Massachusetts. This office designed her class of vessel. << Thank you Fritz! I will mail a letter to them today. I appreciate the lead. Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: annobon4 Subject: Re: BB's paint scheme @ Pearl Harbor The mentioned has the color photo of the measure 1 scheme . For the Drayton it says Measure 1 was considered to be highly effective against both surface and aerial observation,and from this angle that seemed that seemed a reasonable conclusion. That's all I know about it Brook. Concerning the Drayton paint job. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bob Reddy Subject: PH paint schemes There is a photo of Nevada and Oklahoma in Ms5 taken in mid November 1941, at Hilo, HI. It seems reasonable to assume that Oklahoma was still in Ms5 on December 7th! Bob Reddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Ships Plans & Carrier Names Mike's tale of trying to find a shortcut to the head reminds me of a sea story I heard while serving aboard the USS America. First I must tell everyone about the way ships are built. There are watertight bulkheads (walls) and non-watertight. The non-watertight ones are made from thin sheet metal (1/16" or 1/8" thick) and have regular doors and openings in them. When I worked in a shipyard, the shipfitter would get a sheet of metal and lay out the bulkhead and it would be sheared or cut with a torch to size. It would then be welded in place. The openings would then be cut into it after it was in place. The story says that on one of the Forestall class ship (I seem to recall that it was the Saratoga) was one or two years old when there was a problem with the fire control system for the Terrier missile launchers on the ship. One of the causes might have been that one of the cables was cut or shorted between the missile directors and the control center. A member of Fox Division was sent out to trace the cable through the cableways to see if that was the case. The sailor traced the cable to where it went through a non-watertight bulkhead. There was no door on the bulkhead, so he went around the corner and found no door. He determined that there was no access to the compartment on the deck he was on. This is not unheard of on board a naval ship, particularly one with 5000 compartments. He went on the deck above and found no way down to the compartment, not did he find a way up from below the compartment. He went and reported his findings to R division. They couldn't tell what the compartment was from the plans, only that there was a compartment there. They cut a hole through the bulkhead to find a head, complete with sinks, toilets and showers. Seems that the builder had erected the bulkhead and then never went back and cut a hole and installed a door. As for naming carriers after people, the first one was the Langley. Then there was the FDR. The current trend started with the Kennedy. I often wondered how the US Navy could name a capital ship after a man who had allowed his command (PT-109) to be run over by the enemy. The Captain of the Indianapolis was court marshaled for basically not zig-zaging while Kennedy was made a hero. You don't think politics has anything to do with it, do you? Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "wblad" Subject: Re: Sub Chaser movies The third SC movie is 1938"s "Submarine Patrol," directed by John Ford and starring Preston Foster. It was a Paramount release and is the best of the three movies. "Midshipman Jack," from 1933 is o.k. It was filmed at the Naval Academy and stars Bruce Cabot. The SCs were used as YP craft at Canoe U and feature in one brief segment when the YP cuts across the path of a landing P2Y which suffers a broken oil line, blinding the pilot and resulting a crash between a model seaplane and a model sub-chaser. MGM's 1938 opus, "Thunder Afloat" is the worst of the lot. It stars Chester Morris and Wallace Beery (no Sr or Jr, that was his brother, Noah Sr., a silent movie villain, and his son, Noah, Jr., James Garner's dad on tv's "Rockford Files." All of these movies turn up occaisionally on cable/satellite stations such as AMC and TMC. William ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Italian submarine Here's a real poser for the group mind. I need the name of the Italian submarine that surfaced in the middle of the Salerno invasion southern transport area on 9 September 1943 to surrender to the amphibious command ship USS Ancon. The sub then proceeded to Malta after sailors from Ancon - a prize crew of sorts - went aboard. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Robert Healy" Subject: Bismarck special All, A bit off the track, but did anyone see the Bismark special on National Geographic last week. James Cameron (producer of Titanic notariety) put a dive together on the Bismark. Turned it into a two hour special. I thought it was a bit light on the history...until my 11 year old daughter watched it too. She thought it was great. The focus was really more on the wreck and some of the difficulties of getting inside of it with the ROV's. Not too dry and the story moved. I figure that if it she liked it (and remembered things from it) and sparked a bit of interest... it was a good thing. I liked it. Wild shots of the barbettes upside down in the mud! Regards, Bob Healy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Re: Vittorio Veneto plans You can get superb plans of the Vittorio Veneto through this website: http://www.anb-online.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Dan Bostwick" Subject: Rigging in 1:1200 Scale (or "shoot me now before I really try this") David, Edd, Kerry, Rick, Truly some fine suggestions, gentleman, however, I have to confess that the generically engineered, and specially trained spiders where my favorite. Fortunately, my wife is a veterinarian, and so I shall put her to work on that project immediately. The fruits of that labor will no doubt take some time to show themselves, so in the mean time . . . Kerry, - I take it that "ratlines" are the "super-cool-looking webbing" that I mentioned in my post (ah, another nautical term mastered)? - Do you have a link for Navalis? I tried www.Navalis.com , but I don't think that was the right one. Rick, - With regard to GHQ's future plans, I asked their customer service folks if they were planning any new models, and they told me that they were adding the 64 gun Agamemnon, and a French corvette "within the next few months." - You said you use plastic sprue to rig; what diameter? I have some 0.035inch / 0.88mm stuff from Evergreen Scale Models, but it looks too big (by about double!). - I am, in fact, planning on using the GHQ sails - I think they look fantastic. Thanks, Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: naming ships >> Since Bush SR. was a naval aviator, I find the naming of a carrier in his honor a valid choice. I'd prefer to see a Hornet or an Essex return to the fleet (or even a Halsey), but I can see the logic of naming it for Bush Sr. Especially if you're in the Navy and trying to curry favor with the current President. << there is an Essex in the fleet: a Wasp class gator. and it carries CV-9s bell, too. and there's still a Hornet in the fleet: the F/A-18. at one of the various WWII commemorations and base closing events at NAS Alameda, one of the keynote speakers (and off the top I can't remember the Admiral's name) stated in his talk that the F/A-18 was named for the ship--not the bug. I've not seen this in any documentation or reference books about the aircraft, but I heard it in this speech. s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Models on auction Hello all, In case anybody's interested, I have a ton of models on auction. My username is c177guy. I have planes, ships and a few autos. The ships include: Revell USS North Carolina USS Dallas (Hunt for Red October) USS Saipan USS Alabama/USS Massachusetts lot WAGB Burton Island icebreaker Shanghai USS Dallas and Soviet Typohoon combo Matchbox USS San Diego/USS Indianapolis lot Airfix 4 WWII Destroyer set Hope to do business with some SMMLies. Thanks, Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: FS: Fujimi 1/48 Tomcat Hi All, I know it's off topic, but I have a Testors Fujimi 1/48 Grumman F14 Tomcat I am trying to sell. Model complete with markings for VF111 Sundowners and VF84 Jolly Rogers. I am looking to unload it for $20.00, what I paid for it. Will ship domestic or international for cost. As I said it's off topic, but at least it's a NAVY plane. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume