Subject: SMML VOL 2060 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 11:05:13 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Interesting items on eBay 2: removing paint from models 3: Re: Antony Preston 4: Re: Liberty vs. Victory 5: Re: USS 'Oklahoma' Conversion 6: Re: Sub chaser hull numbers 7: Re: Liberty vs Victory ships 8: Re: Liberty vs Victory ships 9: Re: Joseph Kennedy 10: troop transport Sobieski at Dunkirk 11: Re: preston's worst warhips 12: Re: Capital Ships 13: Re: PT109 14: Re: Liberty vs Victory Ships 15: Lost Compartment 16: Hornet CV 8 17: Help for HMS 'Agincourt' 18: PT-109 19: HELP: USS Saipan CVL-48 20: Re: worst warship book ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: paulship37 Subject: Interesting items on eBay I saw these items for sale at eBay LINDBERG DECOY SHIP VINTAGE MODEL SHIP KIT http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100176578 NAUTILUS SUBMARINE 20,000 Leagues Disney Jpn http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1926276630 Book: Corvettes Royal Canadian Navy 1939-45 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1924519264 Am. Merchant Marine History Book Caviar&Cargo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1924523587 Am Merchant Marine History Book:Hog Islanders http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1924525253 Bath Press Book : Allied Submarines Of WWII http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=745821435 Naval Press Book: Splinter Wooden Fleet WWII http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=747961012 USS WEST VIRGINIA BB48 (1941) KIT 1:350 MIB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1925828719 Modern 5" Naval Gun Turret Pentagon Promo! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=748276622 EMPIRE SHIPS OF WORLD WAR II http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1982075759 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: PaulShip37 Subject: removing paint from models Not long ago there was a short discussion regarding methods used to take paints off plastic models. Some proven methods use harsh chemicals (automotive brake fluid, oven cleaning sprays). There are safer alternatives. I have had good luck with a method suggested in a model railroad magazine. Many household cleaners use Butoxy Ethanol ("E.B.") as their solvent base. Some are stronger than others. Here in the USA the product "Formula 409" is fairly effective. In essence, you submerge the model completely in a bath of the cleaner and wait ... this is a relatively slow process, several days might be required. It Is VERY effective on all the paints I've tried it on, even the factory paint that model railroad cars come in. The model must be continuously immersed. Sometimes the paint just slides off the sides like a bad decal, more often, a toothbrush is needed to gently clear the engraved lines. Several nice features of this method are: you can strain the liquid after you are done and reuse it. It is cheap. Not harsh on the hands or the environment. I have not used this method on resin kits or PE fitted models, (I have none that need repainting) but would like to hear the results from any brave lads who attempt it on such a model. Perhaps someone has a unit in their "reserve fleet" ready for SLEP.(Ship life extension program). Paul Giltz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Antony Preston I agree with nominations for Popov's "floating soucers" and "Furious", I would add HMS "Captain" and Japanese "Matsushima" class sankeikans to the candidates but "Rurik"??? All of the hype about her alleged abilities was created by the western media so no wonder that she could not possibly live up to the exageratted western expectations. Still she served well for almost 9 years, carried out few succesfull sorties agains Japanese in the early part of the war and finnaly went down figthing. Not too shabby for the alleged "Worst Warship in the World" is it??? Best, Darius ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: URUDOFSKY Subject: Re: Liberty vs. Victory Where the Buttner and the Buckner, and the Rose and the Randall L's or V's or neither? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: annobon4 Subject: Re: USS 'Oklahoma' Conversion Hi After reading my last post I didn't exactly proof read well enough. I meant to say. On the smokestack are the platforms had searchlights on top. These were moved to the 2nd cage mast lowered platform. The Captain's gigs were in at a 45 degree angle on each side of C turret not size. The kit comes with Biplanes that might be O2U or O3U Vought 2 person seaplanes The Skywave OS2U Kingfisher is a better item to use but it looks to big for the 1/720 scale kit of the Arizona.Pictorial Histories has released it's book on the USS NEVADA BB-36 and it goes for $13.00. It's good. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Sub chaser hull numbers To: Edd Pflum Edd, thanks for your response and information. Hey, talk about tunnel vision! I am the undisputed World Champion in that department. To me, the term sub chaser means only the U.S. Navy 110 footers, of both Wars. Searching e-bay for S/C related items reveals that the term is indeed very loosely used by many people to define several different ship designs, even the old four-pipers destroyers in some cases. I won't get into how foreign navies designate their chasers, that is their prerogative. In my case, I consider PC to be Patrol Craft, capable of larger roles due to their size etc., even though sub hunting may be part of their duties. Yes, Edd, I am aware of the prototype boats you mention. But were they commissioned vessels, or were they more in the nature of XPC? I didn't know about SC numbers having been assigned to converted yachts. Can you please advise the numbers so used? Although the numbers in the movie were PC numbers, I believe the movie makers called them SC591, 2, and 3, thus making them fictitious. Yes? But remember, I hold that Henry Ford stopped making automobiles when he made the last Model A in 1931, and that no other manufacturer ever made an automobile, even though Henry had shown them how in 1928 (guess what my other passion is). Ain't SMML grand? Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Liberty vs Victory ships A follow-up question (shows how dumb I am) please. Were the Liberty Ships of the WW1 era and the Victory Ships of the WW2 era? Just as the media call destroyers "battleships", I bet they confuse the Liberty Ships with the Victory Ships. The media never seem to miss an opportunity to mess things up. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: Liberty vs Victory ships >> What is the difference between a Liberty Ship and a Victory Ship? << For a visual, go to www.bluejacketinc.com. They offer 1/192 scale kits of both types and have a nice photo of a completed model of each. Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Richard Rathgeber Subject: Re: Joseph Kennedy Just a note. It is true that Joseph Kennedy was well known and as such his very genuine hero son did deserve recognition for his death. Old Joe was by no means a buddy of FDR at this time and in fact was mostly shunned by him after his performance in England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: ZMzimmerman Subject: troop transport Sobieski at Dunkirk Can anyone on the list help me with information on the armament and paint scheme carried by the Polish liner Sobieski at Dunkirk. Thanks everyone. Michael Zimmerman Dallas, Texas, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: preston's worst warhips >> Well, I still haven't seen the actual book yet, but the ad mentioned a few: the round Russian coastal defense ship ADMIRAL POPOV, the experimental ram USS KATAHADIN, the light cruiser HMS FURIOUS (1918), Russia's commerce raider RURIK (1904), and the British K-class steam-powered submarines. Of GRAF SPEE, it's said she was "too expensive, overgunned, and with only a moderate turn of speed". << And no mention of Hashidate/Itsukishima? These are my favorite useless warships.....And I would like dispute Ryurik off course. Especially as there were no Ryurik's build in 1904. The first was built in 1890-1895 and the second in 1905-1911. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, the Netherlands ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: David Sepos Subject: Re: Capital Ships Rich Sweeny Wrote: >> Now, if you want Politics, point to the destroyer "USS Joseph P Kennedy". The eldest of the Kennedy males, served in the Army Air Corps, died when a experimental piloted/radio controlled bomb he was flying blew up prematurely. But Neither Bobby (USN) nor Ted seem to have gotten their ships yet...;^) << No offense, but I believe you better check your sources. Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. was a Naval Aviator. It was a different time and politics did not necessarily play a key role in DD/DE naming in WWII as it has for capital ships in subsequent 6 decades. My mother's cousin was an ensign, killed on the Pensacola at Tassaforonga. He had an Evarts Class DE named for him. He was neither rich nor famous. Many junior naval officers in WWII that paid the ultimate price for freedom, were so honored. Regards, Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Timothy Connelly" Subject: Re: PT109 Hello All, In regard to PT-109; I am acquainted with a PT officer (a skipper and later a squadron commander) that I am not sure if he's alive as of this date, however, he once told me (and he was there that night, a few hundred yards behind the 109) that - in contradiction to Mr. Kennedy's claim, 109's radio was working, because he himself heard it and the 109 was on one engine - not complying with the standing order of having multiple engines online and he knows that most of the crew was below decks. So, one has to wonder if the boat was on more than one idling engine with a more attentive crew on deck and at their stations, if the incident would have even occurred. That's not saying that I am taking anything away from the heroic effort of Mr. Kennedy in saving members of the crew and keeping them alive until their rescue and how he worked hard to affect their rescue. For that, he should be honored and all that. But, that was his responsibility as their commanding officer and leader. He did a most remarkable job in that one regard. As for Ballard's claim that the 109 was the ONLY PT boat sunk in that area, that is totally wrong. Three weeks earlier, PT-166 was lost to USAAF B-25s (friendly fire mistake) in the same area. So, it can be conceivable to think the wreckage he found in May 2002 was off of the 166. Timothy Connelly ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: NAVYDAZE Subject: Re: Liberty vs Victory Ships On of the nice things about living in the San Francisco Bay area, other than the great weather, is you have a chance to compare both Liberty ship and Victory ship. The SS Jeremiah O'Bien is a large ship but rather compact and no "extras." However, the victory SS Red Oak seems more spacious and bigger. Especially due to the difference in the engines the Red Oaks engine room is really big. But one of the things I did notice that did not change was the bunk houses for the Armed Guard. They were still small and cramped on both ships. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Lost Compartment From: MrkLeonard >> I too had heard of the supposed compartment that had no entrance. The way I heard it (in 1975, aboard Coral Sea) was that it was the lead ship, Forrestal, and the compartment in question was supposed to be a machine shop of some sort. It'll be interesting to hear what other folks have heard! << I heard the lost compartment was a gym/weight room aboard the Enterprise CVAN-65. I picked this sea story up in DASH school, spring of 1968 in Dam Neck VA. Heard it repeated a couple of years later on the Garcia as "a machine shop full of equipment on some carrier". Steve Pelham NH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Hornet CV 8 Hi SMMLies, I just picked up the bloody thing. Looks pretty good except for that bow. Wow is it a mess, reminds me of and old tanker long before they put the bulbous bows on them. I already glued the two halves together then I will proceed to fill the bow with resin and hog away till it is correct with the body plan I have of Hornet from the National Archives. Also the hull sides are flat where on the real class they flared out as they went up to the hanger. I'll leave this alone. But like I said, it isn't bad other then the bow. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Help for HMS 'Agincourt' There is a reference in 'JANES Warships of WW1' to an "interesting article in The Marine Engineer of May 1919 regarding the construction of the HMS Agincourt" In the interests of pursuing all leads for information regarding this unique and fabulous ship; I spent an hour or so last evening on the internet. Punching in The+Marine+Engineer hoping that perhaps somewhere there may be back issues, extracts or resources. Needless to say I came up 344,000 possible sites, and counting, and the few leads that looked possibly fruitful went off in all sorts of tangential directions, For the sake of saving days,weeks or months of miasmic meandering through that murky world is there anybody out there who may already know the way!; or perhaps have some tips for the computer challenged. It may also be so that any information available from that souce has already been published in "The Great Dreadnought" by R, Hough. I for one would love to see more from this great era of shipping. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "James Hathaway" Subject: PT-109 I formerly had serious questions how a small craft like a PT boat could have been run down by a larger vessel like a DD without evading, but a book I read described the night. The book is PT-105 by Kerresey, and is one of the finest memoirs of PT combat I have ever read. Kerresey, and his crew were our on the night, and he says some interesting things about the action, as well as describing what life was like in the PT boat squadrons. I highly recommend the book! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Peter Crandall" Subject: HELP: USS Saipan CVL-48 I am looking for ship plans I could use to scratchbuild the Saipan in 1/350. I have so far been unsuccessful. Does anyone know where I could find plans for the ship in her 1945 configuration? Please help! Thank You! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Fred Liedel" Subject: Re: worst warship book Funny that you should say that in Antony Preston new book he list Graf Spee, for in a pervious book by him called Great Warships he allso list Graf Spee???????. Fred Liedel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume