Subject: SMML VOL 2074 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:26:37 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS New Jersey 1/350 2: HOOD Colours 3: Re: Buff color for Victorian ironclad 4: USS Chicago CA-29 5: Re: USS NJ-Modernized 6: Re: EB-47E.. 7: Foreign B-47 8: Re: Hornet's Aircraft... 9: Re: PT-190 10: Re: Virii 11: Hornet Bow 12: Re: Naval B-47 13: Re: Paint (was SMML Questions) 14: Re: B-47 15: Re: Steel Navy 16: Re: RN Destroyer deck colours 17: Re: CV-8 / Hornet's flight deck ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Nautical Research Journal 2: SMML Site Update 3: APMA site update - now with Secure Online Ordering ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "George Frey" Subject: USS New Jersey 1/350 List hi I need your help, I am considering the Tamiya 1/350 USS New Jersey, however I do not know the configuration is it WWII or later? I want WWII. Also Mr. Steve Wiper is the conversion kit for the Iowa from Missouri avaibele yet? You had stated it would be around the end of the year. Thanks iaafru2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Frank Allen Subject: HOOD Colours Hi Michael, In answer to your question, to the best of our knowledge, only the aftmost and most prominently visible inclined ladders (directly before "X" turret) had wood on them in 1941. The wooden portions were teak handrails. The ladders were also attached to small wooden platforms. Per the crew, the wood was "dulled-down". It was not painted over (nor was the deck). Many of the other larger inclined ladders had brass rails if I recall correctly. I was told these were painted over or otherwise dulled-down. In the meantime, did you follow the painting instructions at http://hmshood.com/models/tips/HoodPaint.html ? You'll get very accurate instructions there. We've based the information on many years of research done by Hood expert Dave Weldon, official records, consultations with John Roberts and Maurice Northcott, questions to the crew and of course photos (to include some bits of colour footage...which shows her final paint scheme...which was worn for not quite the last year of her "life"). There are still some questionable areas yes (bridge deck coverings), but for the most part, we know how she looked. Anyway, these instructions, combined with the excellent new WEM Colourcoats, will make it easy for anyone to create an accurately painted Hood with minimal artistic licence. BTW- Did you fix the structure just behind the second funnel? I'm referring to the small building with the 3 square windows in it (inboard of the searchlight platforms). No plastic or resin kit producer has ever gotten this right. There are few clear photos of this area, but good plans at least do show it well enough. I'm not sure why some have thought this was one large square structure...it definitely was not: It was actually a two tiered structure. The top part, the Motor Boat Workshop, was not the same width as the lower portion, the Disinfector House. There was about 3 feet difference to port and to starboard (the DH was nearly 19 feet wide and the MBW was nearly 13 feet wide). They were the same depth though (a 2 foot wide walkway had to be added around the front of the structures (so men could transit from one side to the other of course). Should be easy to fix on a 1/350 kit. It's certainly a pain in the backside for the Ta If you have any questions, please visit our website (you can get our e-mail addresses there). We'd definitely love to see some photos of the completed model too. Frank H.M.S. Hood Association ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Arthur Taylor" Subject: Re: Buff color for Victorian ironclad In one of the recent links in the chain from this question, Bob Steinbrunn (welcome back, Bob) reassured SSNBuff about Floquil lacquer-based paint, in general and on the use of model railroad colors mixed to taste. I agree with his opinion. The original question also had to do with the use of a Floquil RR color, described as "Buff" (presumably Depot Buff) for the buff color used on certain parts of Victorian ironclads. The particular Navy I cannot recall being mentioned. I think the questioner should not be too particular on the precise color. He should by all means do all the research possible, but if his experience is anything like mine, he may find some confusion in the alleged evidence. I have been researching a RN cruiser of 1894 for many months. Opinions on the color "buff" to be used on the funnels, masts, etc. of my model range from something like Depot Buff to a "daffodil yellow". I made a half model mock-up of a portion of the ship, with the funnel painted straight Depot Buff. I recently showed the result to Brian King, an acknowledged expert on Victorian warship modeling. His opinion on the color was supportive (e.g. "There's no one alive who would argue with you." He believes that colors varied within the Navy, depending on the source of the paint; they particularly did so after a refit). My final paint scheme will be a little grayed to aid atmospheric perspective. I haven't yet made up my mind on the final color, but I will surely choose to mix from my range of Floquil colors until my stocks run out! Brian Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Alan McGivern Subject: USS Chicago CA-29 Help!, I am presently scratch-building a 1/200 scale USS Chicago from the 1937-38 era. I have been working on it for 8 months. The hull, deck, anchors, capstans and chains, 8" turrets, 5" AA and 4 SOC Seagulls are complete. I recently started on the superstructure. That's where my problems started. I have several different sources for plans of the Northampton class heavy cruisers. None of them give a clear explanation of the aft superstructure. This superstructure extends from the waist catapults back aft to the rear 8" turret. It extends from side to side amidships and includes the second stack and mainmast. It is stepped down towards the stern. All of the plans that I have are cluttered with boat storage or aircraft that are drawn in on the plan view, and I really need to understand the shapes involved. I have a fairly good selection of books and magazines but none have clear photos of what I need to see. I am hoping someone will have either a source for better plans, a website or some info in a book that would show me that area. I see that Maryland Silver Co. has plans of the Northampton class. I've never dealt with them. Has anyone else got plans from them? Are they worth the cost? I would really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Starline / Fleetline Subject: Re: USS NJ-Modernized There is a site called 'Plastic Navy' they have about 198 photos of the Big J as she is currently on display as a museum ship. They are pretty indespensible for doing her in her modern guise. http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/theplasticnavy/lst Go to folder marked 'Real Ships' then to NJ All the best, Kevin at Fleetline ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Drifterdon Subject: Re: EB-47E.. Canada was the only other country to operate the B-47. It was used as an engine test bed.. Don Wonders ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Foreign B-47 Hi fellow kit bashers and Merry Christmas, The RCAF used a B-47 as an engine test bed for the Avro Cf-105 Arrow. To kick off the annual "what I got for Xmas thread": A WEM Dido, and a book on RAN Destoyers. Regards Keith Butterley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: MGFoster Subject: Re: Hornet's Aircraft... Rich Sweeney wrote: >> ...SBD was the Douglas Dauntles, not the Helldiver.... << Right'cha are. I musta been lookin' at the wrong line when I copied the data out of WP #9. But, I double-checked the TBN designation on WP #9, p. 63 [line 4/1942] & it is TBN not TBD (Devastator). So is "TBN" an error, should have had "TBD," or is there an aircraft with the TBN designation? A Torpedo Bomber traiNer? Rgds, MGFoster:::mgf Oakland, CA (USA) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Timothy Connelly" Subject: Re: PT-190 Steve Allen, Please contact me offsite about your PT-190 project. I have a model of her, my address is TGConnelly@Earthlink.net. Tim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Virii >> I think you're correct assuming this is a virus ploy. I opened an email from someone I knew that had the heading "congratulations." I had a bad feeling about it but I opened it anyway and sure enough, it contained a Klez virus. Fortunately Norton picked it up and sent it to the happy hunting ground (recycle bin) where I deleted it. I sent an email to everyone on my mailing list cautioning them about the email. << Two suggestions: 1. Create a dummy email address, such as AAFoobar@AOX.com as the first entry in your address book. If you do get hit by a virus that attempts to email itself to everyone on your address book, you will generate a bounce message which will alert you that you are infected. 2. Dump that idiotic Outlook!!!!! All the virii are written to utilize the Outlook address book. Switch to Eudora instead. the Virii don't recognize it's address book so If your system does become infected, at least you won't spread it. Eudora is available in free mode (some features disabled) Ad supported full and paid (Bannerless ) mode. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Hornet Bow Could someone please describe in a bit more detail, the mod needed to accurize the Trumpeter Hornet Bow?? Perhaps someone who has already done it could post a few pictures and a sketch to SteelNavy. Regards, Bradford Chaucer Or indeed you can post them to the SMML site ;-) Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: Naval B-47 From: Kelvin Mok >> Yet I recall reading Chuck Yeager's comment in his autobiography that the B-47 was so streamlined and fighter-like that it would float forever over the runway when he tried to land the bomber. That gives a contradictory picture? << Not really, when you think about it. Acceleration for takeoff takes a lot of energy for a big, heavy, fuel-laden jet bomber. Straight, non-afterburning turbojets (ie. non-fans) like the B-47's are pretty weak in this regard and it takes time to build up speed. But once airborne, the B-47's clean design and fast forward motion is like a big storage battery of energy that has to be bled off. Also, most of the fuel has been burned off by landing time making the bird much lighter and prone to "floating". That's why big jets today have "spoilers" on tops of their wings - they raise up on landing to remove excess lift which helps to plant the aircraft firmly on the ground even while still moving forward at a high rate of speed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: wem Subject: Re: Paint (was SMML Questions) >> If you're airbrushing Floquil over polystyrene and are worried about the solvent attacking the plastic and think you need to use Floquil's Barrier as a protective undercoat, you can now relax. Floquil will airbrush beautifully over styrene *if* you apply it lightly, slightly dry (but not so dry that you get a rough "pebble" finish), and gradually build up successive coats. But this is good advice for *any* brand of paint you're airbrushing. << Concur. I've airbrushed Floquil thinned with lacquer thinner onto styrene for years, with nary a bit of crazing, but you've got to do it as Bob notes above. >> Since they haven't shown up yet, I feel certain that the much dreaded yet little-known "color police" will probably leave me alone. << We know where you live.... >> If I were just starting out and didn't have a desk drawer full of Floquil, I'd send John Snyder a large check, my first born, and 10 lbs. of chocolate in exchange for a comprehensive starting line-up of WEM Colour Coats. << Bob, keep your first-born: I have one of my own and DON'T need any more! However, it that's Ghirardelli dark chocolate, we may have to talk. Cheers, John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Robert Healy" Subject: Re: B-47 Alcon, Jeez.....I will really have to think up a better one next time. Yep, the CL-47 was used to test the Orenda Iriquois for the Avro CF-105 Arrow program. Too bad old Diefenbaker (?) cut all that stuff up. Ironically, they cut that B-47 up too when it was returned. I read somewhere that it only had a few hundred flight hours on it. To all of you who got it...well done. I kinda expected some of our northern compatriots to zero in on that one... Regards, Bob Healy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: annobon4 Subject: Re: Steel Navy Hi Guys I recently have gotten Steelnavy back on my computer. It was good to know I wasn't alone. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: WRPRESSINC Subject: Re: RN Destroyer deck colours i) RN ships above the size of destroyer completing in the 1930s used corticine at the compass platform level and sometimes at the signal bridge level. This practice varied from ship to ship. ii) Type one Hunt class destroyers as completed used corticine on the bridge and signal decks. They also used semtex on the forecastle and upper deck. For the exact run and placement of these coverings reference should be made to the 'as fitted ' plans. iii) The first destroyers to use Semtex were those of the Tribal class. iv) Corticine (as laid down) has been described to me by many people as having the colour of milk chocolate (British variety). No other colour has ever been mentioned. This colour applies to corticine on the weather decks. v) In the war, the brown colour of corticine dulled down and tended to lose it"s brown tone. In some instances it was painted over by various shades of grey and in a number of instances blue. vi) The colour of Semtex and Paratex (as newly applied) was of a light medium tan colour. vii) As ships refitted and repaired during the war the corticine deck coverings on the forecastle and upper decks were often replaced with Semtex. viii) Painting and camouflage instructions did not allow for the Semtex to be painted over but sometimes this was ignorned. These notes are a very brief summary and are incomplete, but they may be of some use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: HAZEGRAYADM Subject: Re: CV-8 / Hornet's flight deck Now that Mr. Snyder & others have affirmed the deck color stain as the 250N then let's carry the question one more step. Does anyone have any idea about the deck MARKINGS (Quantity and number of dashed lines, etc.) that Hornet carried after the Doolittle raid? I'm sure the two solid lines forward for the B-25s would have been removed by Midway, and it was too early for a deck number, correct? The Santa Cruz photos that I have show no distinguishable markings, perhaps because the plane was too high. One pic (Pg 6) in Detail & Scale's F4F / Wildcat shows only a faint dashed centerline, dark, possibly blue or black. Is that all there was? Bert McDowell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS Subject: Nautical Research Journal From: GKingzett >> the well thought of publication to which you refer is most probably The Nautical Research Journal. I believe the invitation was tendered by a certain well thought of modeler named Bob Steinbrunn. If he isn't frozen or snowbound in central Minnesota, he might tell you how to submit your article. Lacking that, you can climb into your snowmobile and drive up to Camden, Maine and see the editor, David Blanchard, yourself. << Gary, you do me too much honor. (I'll never forget a breakfast on board the QUEEN MARY at the Western Ship Model Conference 2002 when Gary nonchalantly reached into his shirt pocket and handed over a beautifully lathed brass cannon for an early turn of the century American Battleship he was scratch-building. "I have xxx hours in making this and there are xxx parts in it" he modestly and laconically said. We were all flabbergasted it arrived in his pocket instead of a jewelery case.) In any event, what Gary says is true: the Nautical Research Guild (http://www.naut-res-guild.org) is very earnestly seeking articles and papers from "steel navy" modelers for consideration for publication in the Nautical Research Journal. This represents a major change from the wooden ship oriented NRG, and it's partially because there is an influx of younger modelers who build "steam & steel" models who want to see more of this type of article in the Journal. The Autumn 2002 issue of the NRJ has a beautiful color photo of the 1/48 model of USS MICHIGAN, circa 1843 (side paddlewheels), and the Winter issue has a color photo and an article on the astonishing 1/48 builder's model of HMS KATOOMBA, an Australian Colonial Cruiser of 1890. This model is currently held at the National Maritime Museum, Sydney, Australia. It's as good a model as any by Gibbs & Cox that I've seen. If you'd like to submit an article to the Nautical Research Journal, contact the editor at: David M. Blanchard 87 Pearl Street Camden, ME, 04843 USA windrose@adelphia.net Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML Site Update For those looking for more photos of the USS New Jersey (modernized) ..... thanks to Ulrich Rudofsky they are now on the site in the Reference section. I hope they help Bob and others out when building her. Added the last couple of days SMMLs to the archives (2073-2074) if you fell asleep after Christmas dinner and missed them ;-) Hope you ALL got interesting presents Full of Christmas Cheer and Chocolate (heh heh heh) Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Shane Subject: APMA site update - now with Secure Online Ordering Hi all, The APMA site has just been updated with plenty of new photos of Member models and new reference pics - check the update page for full details We also now have secure on-line ordering if you wish to join/ re-join APMA or buy backissues of the APMA Magazine. All the best, Shane Jenkins APMA Webmaster Having FUN making models http://apma.org.au Now with Secure Online Ordering ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume