Subject: SMML VOL 2084 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:43:23 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: AE-26 USS Kilauea 2: Re: Aircraft Canopies 3: Re: New Thread 4: uscg eagle 5: Shipboard vermin 6: KGV colours 7: Re: Hornet armor belt 8: Re: KGV Paint Question 9: Re: Ships Names 10: Re: New thread 11: Re: Cockroaches et al 12: Re: New thread 13: Re: 'Warspite' Hull Sections. Thank You 14: ML Boats in W.W.I 15: SHELL WELDER 16: KGV 17: US Carrier flight decks post-war - tan/brown decks? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/700 Aircraft 2: Re: WEM Benjamin Stoddert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CAPTNWED Subject: AE-26 USS Kilauea A friend of mine has been called up from the Navy Reserve. He will be assigned to the USS Kilauea, AE-26. It is an ammunition replenishment ship. He has asked me to ask if there is a kit of that type. Resin, plastic or whatever? In any scale. Thanks in advance John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Re: Aircraft Canopies From: "Devin" >> I may be insane, but since Trumpeter has gone through the trouble of giving us clear canopies, I plan on using them. I'll probably use them to stretch form thinner and clearer versions, as I plan on doing some sort of cockpit detail in those aircraft. Looking at them in the box, it won't be difficult to remove the "deck" as molded in and provide a rudimentary seat and instrument panel. Yes, I know how nuts that sounds. << Not all that crazy, Devin. For the 1983 IPMS/USA National convention, I built a box diorama in 1/20th scale (roughly) of a model contest. The figures were the Tamiya pit crew (hence the "scale") furniture was doll house scale (1/12th) but I used kids' bedroom/playroom furniture which was about the right scale - the rest, I cut down. But it was the model contest stuff that I want to refer to. I built aircraft and armor for the display table. I used a lot of 1/700 aircraft and vehicles from the Skybox range; and I modified a LOT of it to give dimension. For instance, I took the radial from a P-47, grafted it onto a P-40 and made a P-36 - it was actually fairly credible in that scale. I did a LOT of these conversions, and I did as much as I could to "detail" these aircraft. Ditto the vehicles. I also used larger scale sub-scale aircraft and armor to highlight the various ranges of kits you might find at a show. I used 1/285th armor (metal) from some wargaming kind of thing. I used aircraft of various scales from ship kits (my own plus "donors" from other modeler-friends). I think the pride-of-place kit was 1/144 (though it may have been 1/288 - memory fails) - it's a B-17, and the "subject" of the model diorama's title ("the Crash of '83") - the focal-point modeler, placing his pride-and-joy on the table, stumbles and the plane is half-way between table top and floor (ouch). My point to all this rambling - even without PE (not yet invented), I was able to do a fair-to-middlin' job of detailing models (including canopies, cockpit interiors, etc.) in 1/700, 1/350th, and other odd or one-off scales. And it worked. AND, because the diorama was housed in a solid walnut cabinet for an old 1958 tube-type hi-fi radio (and it fit under the seat as carry-on) it made it to and from Phoenix just fine. It's since been copied a number of times (plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery); and though my one national award that year was for another model (a single figure, if memory serves), that's my favorite - by a long shot. So - go ahead and put in the throttle quadrant and relief tube and the magnetic compass - I'll be applauding you all the way. Ned PS - I've also found that these really tiny aircraft kits can be used to create "forced perspective" dioramas. In the months after Desert Storm I, I created a 1/200th diorama of the Stealth Fighter bombing an Iraq airfield. I created it so you could only see from above (looking down); and since it was "moonlit" only black and shades of gray were used. The 1/200th Stealth (which came packaged with a 1/200 B-2, I think, by Dragon - the kit was inaccurate, but the way I presented it you couldn't tell) was mounted on a pylon that was invisible from above. About two inches below (it was not a tall or particularly large diorama) was a 1/700th scale runway, complete with 1/700th scale Sov. MiGs about to be blasted, along with a 1/700th hanger (Skywave again). The diorama was about 6-8" square, and not more than 3" high - covered with a Plexiglas or acrylic box, with the sides covered with smoked film so you had to look down on it from above. Once again, the 1/700 kits were detailed (not super-detailed because of the night-scene) and once again, it worked. So go for it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: New Thread >> Recently I came across some references to the fact that in addition to other better known unromantic conditions aboard some of the smaller U.S. Navy vessels, there have been infestations of vermin such as cockroaches (gasp), bedbugs (gulp), rats (groan), etc. And it seems that these creatures seem to successfully defy all attempts at extermination. Can any SMML people confirm, correct, or contradict these allegations? << Yup. Both cockroaches and rats were problems, at least aboard APAs in the Second World War. References in "The Plan of the Day" on several occasions, for the ship I am writing a book about, admonish crew and troops about sloppiness that led to a roach infestation, and actual bounties were paid for catching and killing rats. It seems there was some sort of prize for the sailor who bagged the most rats. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Roger Buckley" Subject: uscg eagle There is also the Scientific wooden version of this model. I have it but it is unstarted as yet and couldnt comment as to accuracy but as it doesnt have a high difficulty rating probably is not too accurate but should LOOK pretty good when completed. regards Roger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: MrkLeonard Subject: Shipboard vermin Sad to say, just about EVERY ship has some sort of vermin problem. The ratguards on the mooring lines are there for a REASON!. I was a corpsman on Coral Sea, and when the flight deck was quiet (i.e. in port) part of my job was pest control. I got quite well-versed in identifying rat runs, inspecting food service areas for cockroach infestations, and dispensing lindane dust for um, well, let's just say you don't want THAT particular pubic problem in a berthing area. Insects usually come aboard in food shipments and personal gear. Rats can come aboard in boxed gear, and in food as well. Personal hygiene was VERY important to keep down lice, bedbugs, and other infestations. In fact, the US Navy has a medical NECC, "Preventive Medicine Technician," (HM8432) who specializes in all these areas. When I went through the school it was at the Oakland Naval Regional Medical Center. That place has been closed for years, don't know where they have th school now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Robert Lockie Subject: KGV colours This one has cropped up before but according to Dumas in Warship 11, she was overall AP507B medium grey, with wood decks unpainted (Chris Langtree used Humbrol 121 apparently) and horizontal metal surfaces in blue grey. Never heard of the green/white bit but green was in short supply due to a critical chemical used in its manufacture at he time, so I would doubt it (that was why the army switched to brown for its equipment) and why Western Approaches Blue was used more than WA Green on ships) unless anyone has solid corroboration. Robert Lockie Swindon UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Stephen Allen" Subject: Re: Hornet armor belt Hornet did have an external armor belt, as did Yorktown and Enterprise. It is very thin, and often difficult to make out in photographs of these ships. Some of the best shots of it's extent fore and aft along the hull are in the Classic Warships pictorial on this class. In a way it's lucky that Trumpeter left it off, as any moulded depiction was bound to be way over scale. Try a couple of coats of paint or Mr Surfacer sharply masked off and you'll have it about right. regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: KGV Paint Question At the time of the Bismarck chase, KGV was painted in overall AP 507B Medium Admiralty Grey, with horizontal surfaces--including her teak decks--painted in AP 507A Dark Admiralty Grey. There's no need for guesswork and mixing colors here: they are available in Colourcoats enamels. Colourcoats RN01, AP 507A; Colourcoats RN02, AP 507B. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bruno Gire Subject: Re: Ships Names Hi all! First I wish you an Happy New Year, full of ship kits. About last year forum on ships names, I recently watched and recorded the russian-Discovery Channel co-production excellent docu filmed aboard the latest of the giant russian subs of the Typhoon class (Project 941 "Akula", one of those monsters starring in "the Hunt for Red October"). The movie follows one of the sub's patrol, including the launching of a -practice- torpedo against a Sierra class sub as well as of a SS-N-15 missile. Many shots are shown of the sub external hull in drydock, the twin tunnelled propellers. Interior is shown with CIC (nothing in common with Red October movie), officers and crew spaces, engine room, batteries compartment, crew escape module, recreation quarters and... the inboard swimming pool and sauna (!!!). The most curious is the following: This sub, originally TK-20, launched in July, 1998 at Severodinsk was latter given the name "Severstahl" (my spelling). Don't try to identify here the name of an admiral, a former politician... Severstahl is the name of the company which is sponsoring the ship, paying for overhauls and the crew food, etc! What a new idea! So, in this New Year's eve (thanks to Champagne abuse), lets imagine/ joke about: Imagine: The new supercarrier, USS "Coca-Cola" with a full complement of VTOL aircrafts F-35 "McChicken" (nuggets armed) cruising in the Gulf, along with a multinational force (HMS "WEM" and the trouble plagued French carrier "Vivendi-Universal" among others)... Shocking? Relax: we avoided USS "Enron".... Bruno Gire Bordeaux, France ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Stephen Sundberg Subject: Re: New thread >> As President Reagan used to say, "Well, here we go again.". Recently I came across some references to the fact that in addition to other better known unromantic conditions aboard some of the smaller U.S. Navy vessels, there have been infestations of vermin such as cockroaches (gasp), bedbugs (gulp), rats (groan), etc. And it seems that these creatures seem to successfully defy all attempts at extermination. Can any SMML people confirm, correct, or contradict these allegations? << As a medical officer in the U.S.Navy (Destroyer Squadron 13) in the early '70's, one of my jobs was inspecting the food preparation spaces. Cockroaches were universal and controlled (not eliminated) with difficulty. They thrived in the asbestos surrounding pipes, etc. I particularly remember inspecting the USS Dixie (AD-14) when assigned there on TDY. There were screens over the portholes in the galley spaces and the sailors told me that was to keep from infesting the harbor. Steve Sundberg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Cockroaches et al Sadly cockroaches and other unwanted passengers are a fact of life on board ship. I am reminded of a British merchant officer who, just before sailing to South Africa, saw an ad in a british paper. It was offering a sure way to kill cockroaches for the sum of only two shillings ( this was pre-WW2). Dreaming of the only cockroach-free cabin on board ship he sent away for it giving the address in SA where it was to be sent. The package duly arrived. Inside were two blocks of wood, marked A and B respectively, and the following instructions - "Place the cockroach on Block A and strike smartly with Block B". Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: NAVYDAZE Subject: Re: New thread Franklyn, it is more than just the little vessels - we had cockroaches on the KITTY HAWK. Our berthing space was just below the mess decks so everytime they would spray they would leave and come down and live in our department until they could go back up again. We even had the notorious "largest cockroach contests," had some really big ones too. Nothing other than that, that I know of on the big one. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "DerekL" Subject: Re: 'Warspite' Hull Sections. Thank You I'd like to express my gratitude to all of you who responded to my inquiry about Warspite hull sections. Thank you. Also a big thank you to a good friend of mine who provided me with a good set of scans for Warspite and QE hull lines from 1918. Encouraged I posted my second question under ML Boats in W.W.I...:) Darek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "DerekL" Subject: ML Boats in W.W.I Currently I am working on a computer model of Polish patrol ship MYSLIWY from 1922. A short ship description says she belong to a long - 580 boats - line of ML (Motor Launch) vessels build in US yards and than transported to GB where they were used in coastal defense role, mostly as a subchasers. Since this is the only information I have about ML's I'd like to find out more. So basically what I am looking for is the pictures, plans and descriptions. Anything on the Web...? any books...? Thank you. Darek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "David N. Lombard" Subject: SHELL WELDER I've been spending recent nights eliminating excess plastic around the house of the WELDER. It took a while, but it looks like I've got reasonably vertical (and thin) surfaces. Next, I'll plank the quarterdeck and bridge deck. I've removed the scribed decking on the bridge top, as I doubt that was planked -- at least, that's not been my experience on larger vessels. I plan on making the sliding bridge wing doors wooden (color), with bright steel sliding tracks. Questions: 1) My kit is from "Modelcraft" while the original is, IIRC, Frog. The current instruction sheet is scant on any detail at all, especially color. If anyone has the original Frog kit, is it better? If so, can I bribe a copy out of you? I'm thinking a buff to yellow-buff for the cargo booms. 2) I have some photos of examples of the type in "Ships in Focus", but does anyone have any documentation of the actual vessel? 3) Any pointers on a small vessel's pilothouse interior? It's so big, it would be ashame to leave it empty. Otherwise, I'll probably just make the glass black... David N. Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA N 33 deg, 48', W 118 deg, 5' ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Chris and Kayo Amano-Langtree" Subject: KGV KGV was in overall AP507B at the time of the Bismarck engagement. AP507A steel decks and teak wood decks. The wonderful splinter camouflage seems to have lasted only a short time - there were actually two schemes of which only fragmentary evidence remains. Chris Amano-Langtree ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Stephen Allen" Subject: US Carrier flight decks post-war - tan/brown decks? Hello all I'm building the Arii 1/400 Enterprise in 'first commission' guise, which includes a very colourful flight deck - overall tan/brown, with a very dark landing strip. So far I have had no luck in tracking down the FS or other description for the tan/brown colour, which I note was also in use on some other US carriers during the 1950s, early 1960s time period. Does anybody on the list know anything about this mysterious color, has anyone found a rough equivalent in model paints or have a mixing formula to achieve it? More than that, can anyone suggest why such a colour was in use at all, given that it was preceded by blues and grays and superceded by grays, all of which presumably have much superior low visibility at sea. Did the USN just buy too much brown paint in the 1950s? regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "shaya novak" Subject: 1/700 Aircraft Last year with everones permission I put together a 1/700 aircraft tips page with a link to a Japanese site of incredible 1/700 aircraft detailing. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/aircraft_canopies.htm Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies www.modelshipbuilding.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: WEM Benjamin Stoddert >> Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm blushing as I write this. << And thank to BOTH of you, Ned and Rusty, for the kinds words, we're collectively blushing here at WEM. As a reminder, we've now switched to a hard brass in our 4-thou etch, so you'll find it about the consistency of phosphor bronze to work with--giving the best qualities of both brass and stainless steel and being much easier to work with and more forgiving. And Rusty: Still mixing Haze Gray??! With Colourcoats available?? ;^) Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume