Subject: SMML VOL 2088 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:23:47 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Roach coach on the approach 2: HMS York - thanks 3: Shell Welder PE 4: Re: Tokay Gekkos 5: Re: financial backing and the naming of ships 6: Re: US Carrier flight decks post-war - tan/brown decks? 7: Re: Colors of Carrier Flight Decks 8: Re: Drawings for H.M.S. Bristol 1916 9: Seals-Models and Interallied 10: Edmund Fitzgerald model 11: Re: Sculpey 12: Re: HMS York 1941 colours 13: Hornet B25s 14: Re: Gato sub colors 15: Re: Making Waves 16: Geckoes 17: Re: cockroaches 18: Miyukikai plans (wanted) 19: Re: USN FLIGHT DECKS...post war... 20: Revell Buckley? 21: Re: That darn tan deck! 22: Re: Cutty Sark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Fine Scale Modeler, etc. for Sale 2: 1/32 scale PT PE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Roach coach on the approach On my first ship I had the misfortune of running afoul of these little pests(no, not bosunmates). I recall the ship had just returned from a tour in Vietnam and was undergoing a yard period. The cutter was in a constant state of disrepair, and the dirt and mess associated with it. I guess all the cutting, welding, and goings on had disturbed the natural order of things at least in regards to cockroaches. Usually a nocturnal creature, the ripping out of fixtures, such as lockers, caused the pests to join the crew during daylight hours. It wasn't uncommon for a roach to scamper across your face while you were snug in your bunk after taps. The most disheartening thing was during meal time and one of our little "guests" would take a swan dive from the mess deck overhead(ceiling for you land locked types) and land in your food tray, usually in the four star gravy. Or if you were lucky in your coffee. Hot liquids and shoe bottoms were a roach's greatest enemy. My tour on that lovely vessel was mercifully short and I had the pleasure of serving on 6 more cutters, all roach free. Grain bugs in cereal products, that's another kettle of fish. When making food items such as soups containing say, navy beans, we would let it soak in cold water and let the deceased float to the top of the water where the offending parties would be removed. Yum Yum.... Never came across any rats on a ship although some two legged rats turned up from time to time... M J Maynard USCG(Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Clements" Subject: HMS York - thanks Thanks to those who so helpfully and quickly responded to my request for info on York's 1941 colour scheme. All's clear now for a start on the kit tonight. John Clements ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Shell Welder PE http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/plist1.htm#ATLANTIC%20BRASS Available from White Ensign Models Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GKingzett Subject: Re: Tokay Gekkos To Brad Chaucer, Further to the urban legend. The Gekkos disappeared because the New York rats ate them. Quite a tasty foreign delicacy for them, I suspect, as a change from their normal diet of garbage from the 5 Star restaurants. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Flt Hrbr Mstr RNN Subject: Re: financial backing and the naming of ships Hello from Canada! I am an avid 1/700ish diarama builder with a "powerful"fleet home ported in the center of my living room. This is my first ever post to anything so...here goes. Along with money,I know that during WWII they also conducted scrap metal drives. I spoke to a couple of people when I was a kid who remembered the horse drawn wagon coming down the street, Boy Scouts banging pots and pans, and running up to the houses collecting any metals that could be spared. Now I am a middle aged person permanently "housebound"and living on a small fixed income (if you have ever wished that all you had to do is build models...be very careful about what you wish for) and I was spending way too much time looking out my window complaining about all the litter I could see. So I decided to get some exercise and do something about it and started picking up the litter on a regular basis. This also includes a fair number of refundable cans and bottles. Knowing the above mentioned history,I decided to keep track of the value collected. After approximatly 18 months,I am pleased to say that this spring I purchased the Dragon kit of the USS OAKLAND, entirely funded with money from "garbage"lying on the street! Do you 1/700ish modellers out there know about all the extra parts that come with those kits? Remember I am new here. But what a very happy surprise when I discovered enough extra weapons for two more ships! I am just starting to get serious about scratchbuilding by creating some fictional ships, a lot of fun and way less "preasure". I was given a second kit of the,one of, Japanese Destroyer Shimakaze. Now I have no real problem with having two of a ship in the fleet, you can never have too many destroyers real or model, but I have decided to use some of those extra Dragon parts and address the historic weakness of IJN anti aircraft artillery. So I will soon be "launching" the "SABRIKAZI" (named in honor of my daughter,Sabrina). She (the ship not my daughter) will retain the powerful 15 tube Long Lance battery,but is being armed to the teeth with the best of American AAA and directors! Randy/Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: US Carrier flight decks post-war - tan/brown decks? >>> All new, large US carriers since the Essex Class have had steel flight decks. The picture you have must show some temporary repair. << Even the Midway, Coral Sea and FDR? I thought they had wood decks. <<< The whole point of their design was to have a US carrier with an armored flight deck (and adequate protection in general). Trivia: They had asymmetric belt thicknesses. The starboard belt was 0.2 inch thinner than the port as part of offsetting the weight of the island. Brooks A Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: jrsheridan Subject: Re: Colors of Carrier Flight Decks >> Also, photos of carriers with the dark nonskid overall on the flight deck often seem to have a strong purplish cast as seen in books. I am not sure what causes this - but I took photos on the flight deck of CARL VINSON in 1983 and the very obvious all non-skid deck that appeared blue-black to my eyes, and I was very surprised when my prints came out with a strong magenta tint, exactly like the pictures in the books. << The brownish tint you see on Carrier flight decks is really oxidization of the deck from Brake dust, rubber, salt, and exhaust from jets. By the time a Carrier is returning from deployment, most of the anti-skid is eithier worn off or impregnated with all kinds of nasty things causing the deck to take on all kinds of interesting colors. As for the magenta cast on your color film, this is caused by your film being exposed to excessive heat causing the film to shift. If you throw your exposed or unexposed film in the glove compartment for a few hours on a hot day it will duplicate this effect very nicely. John Sheridan www.steelnavy.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Re: Drawings for H.M.S. Bristol 1916 Hi George, I forgot, that I have drawings of HMS Glasgow in 1914 in1/600. Not very detailed, but if you habe good photos, they would be useful. If you need the drawing, send an email to lars.scharff@stud.uni-muenchen.de and I can sent you a copy or scan. The Towns are very famous ships, not only Glasgow mentioned by Art, also Bristol herself (Falklands, Adriatic), Gloucester (chase of Goeben and Breslau in 1914), Southampton (one of the Towns at Jutland) and HMAS Sydney (sunk the Emden). I hope, that sometime kits of this ships will be released (and to a affordable price). Best Regards Lars Scharff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Seals-Models and Interallied Hi Gernot and Masashi, I don't know well about the relationship between Seals-Models and Interallied, but I understand that Interallied is basically distributing company and Seals-Models are brand name of manufacture. Initially Seals-Models kits were distributed from Interallied, but I think they have no partnership now. Seals-Models is now one branch (or label) of Foresight Ltd. Foresight also distribute Skytrex or other manufacture's kit in Japan. They don't have website at this time, but I would personally send a message to Mr. Nagata of Foresight that many world modellers want Seals-Models site. Best regards, Mitsuaki Kubota http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/hmdock/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Edmund Fitzgerald model Good Morning, Take a look at the Edmund Fitzgerald model at Fine Art Models (1/144 scale) http://www.fineartmodels.com/fitzgerald.htm Hope your friend is not discouraged after looking at this one! The only thing that is keeping me from building a model of the Fitzgerald is that I have no plans or photos of the hatch crane. Any help here, anyone?? Dave Miller Macomb, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR Subject: Re: Sculpey >> I keep hearing people talking about sculpey. Does anyone have any ideas where I can get some of this stuff in Australia, or some similar substance? << If you'll check out the sources page at the end of the FSM article, you will see the manufacturer's name for Sculpey. The stuff looks, feels and molds just like clay. The only difference is that is cured to rock hard in a home oven for about 15 minutes at 175 degrees. Check you art and crafts stores and describe it to them. They should carry something similar. I also use Super Sculpey to form very thin bow waves. It's the same product as regular Sculpey but it dries to a ceramic like finish and hardness. It's a little more expensive but much harder when it cures in the oven. Very thin waves made with Sculpey can break easily, but once I coat them with a thin coat of Gel Medium they are VERY sturdy. I have never had any waves break once they have been coated with Gel Medium. I am currently working an "extreme" example of how far one can go using Sculpey for a future FSM article. The base has very rough seas and a Knox class frigate is being pitched so much that the entire bow is exposed out of the wave. It makes a not-so-interesting model look quite dramatic. Rusty White IPMS/USA #20181 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Re: HMS York 1941 colours John, Based at least on photographic evidence it appears that York's 1941 scheme consisted of 507A and 507C. I would suggest that you do a quick search for photos on the web if you want more accuracy on the design on the camouflage scheme. The Morskie publication has one or two good photos too. Dimi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bill" Subject: Hornet B25s Anybody know where I can purchase the extra B25s needed to make the trumpter Hornet kit match what she carried on the Doolittle raid...thank you Bill Code ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ives100 Subject: Re: Gato sub colors >> I am doing a Gato class submarine model in Measure 32/3SS-B "Dark Gray Job" scheme. In my research vertical surfaces are light gray, medium gray,dark gray, and black. My question is what is the light gray supposed to be? Maybe 5L light gray or 5H haze gray or another? << Speaking with guys who actually patrolled on the subs, light gray was just that...light gray. Whatever the shipyards had that approximated light gray. The instructions were fairly vague, and in time of war, color matches are not followed with particular faithfulness. A few years back when I did USS Blenny from the Revell kit (Gato to Balao conversion), I think I used ghost gray for the lighter surfaces. Tom DOugherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Re: Making Waves I suggest using a product called 'Krinklglas' ©. This is a reinforced copolymer plastic panel used as a substitute for stained glass in windows. It is similar to 'ripple glass' but has a random, rippled effect which looks just like water, is transparent, and comes in many different colors (the 'blue-green' looks like a perfect water color to me) and thicknesses. For further info, and to request samples, check their web site: http://www.krinklglas.com/ The only drawbacks to this stuff are (1) it is expensive, and (2) comes in 4' by 8' panels. One panel should be enough for a lifetime of 1/700 models! You might be able to find smaller pieces at a local plastic or glass dealer. I do not know if it is available outside the US. Disclaimer. I have not actually used this stuff myself, but based on the samples I have, here's how I plan to use it: I'll pick a wooden base big enough for the model and cut a piece of 1/4" thick Krinklglas to fit. Then I'll cut a 'ship-shaped' hole in the center to match the waterline of the model. I'll paint the top of the wood base a dark bluegreen color and glue the Krinklglas to the base after the paint has dried. Then I'll cut a waterline shaped shim of sheet plastic approximately 3/16" thick (to compensate for the thickness of the Krinklglas) and attach that to the bottom of the model's hull and paint it appropriately. The modified hull will then sit in the hole in my Krinklglas 'ocean.' I'll then use acrylic gel medium to fill any gaps between the hull and the Krinklglas water as well as form a bow wave and wake. Then I'll use white acrylic paint for the wake's white water and lightly dry brush the Krinklglas to make whitecaps. I'll use wood veneer around the outside of the base to hide the cut edges of the Krinklglas and the wood base. For larger models (1/350 and up) you can get a neat effect of depth by layering 1/8" thick Krinklglas over 1/4." You can also paint the top of the wood base in different colors or even use a mirror instead. Because the Krinklglas is transparent, you can achieve a lot of neat effects like having fish or dolphins swim 'underwater' next to your ship! You could also make a base entirely out of transparent plastic, using Krinklglas for the surface of the 'water' and clear blue-green acrylic sheet for the sides and bottom. Make it deep enough and you can display a full hull model as if it's sitting in a 'block' of water! Or make dioramas: a destroyer on the surface depth charging a submarine below. This technique was described many years ago in an article in FineScale Modeler, which depicted a ditched USN fighter, a Kingfisher rescue airplane on the surface, and the about-to-be-rescued naval aviator in a life jacket and 'treading water.' I thought it was a great idea, but I've not seen many modelers use this technique. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: MrkLeonard Subject: Geckoes In '76 & '77, I was stationed at the Naval Hospital on Okinawa, which was an older facility and had an unfortunate problem with cockroaches. I had a gecko that did an excellent job of keeping MY quarters vermin-free. It wasn't nearly as big as Bradford describes, only a couple of inches long. I would leave a small tin of water out for it, and in return it kept my room a 'cockroach-free' zone. It lived behind a loosely-hung Eric Clapton poster. It was darn near the perfect pet. Mark Leonard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: John Currie Subject: Re: cockroaches Cockroaches are easily brought onboard ships by the way of people stepping on them either accidently or with the need to hear that lovely crunch they make when being stamped on, all this does is transfers the eggs to the footwear then to the ship, So if you want to help keep your ship Cocky free do not walk on them and get some disinfectant placed at the entance to the gangway. A word of note cockroaches are supposed to be one of the expected survivors of any Nuclear War. John Si vis pacem, para bellum: To keep the peace, Prepare for war. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Phil Stewart Subject: Miyukikai plans (wanted) Hello comrades. I'm (slowly) building the old-mold version of Hasegawa's IJN BB/CV Ise kit, and some details are either ambiguous in the photographs or not covered (particularly flight deck and structures undergirding it). So I'm considering getting some plans to help me out. Trouble is, my wallet is feeling a little thin right now, and $45 for Miyukikai plans (the going rate) feels like a lot to spend on something that I'm not sure will augment the line drawings and photos I've so far been able to find. A little searching shows Miyukikai plans to be highly recommended. Does anyone have used Miyukikai (Myco MY017)plans for the BB/CV Ise in its 1945 form, which they would like to sell? Thanks for any help! Phil Stewart p.s. I've found some amazing sources for pictures of the battleship Ise, and some for the Hyuga, some of which I've scanned. Anyone wanting bibliographic citations, please feel free to contact me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: stillmo Subject: Re: USN FLIGHT DECKS...post war... Darren Scannell is correct in that CVAN 65 when on trials post commissioning had a tan flight deck and I have never been able to figure out how long she carried that scheme.By the time the world cruise came along, she had reverted to a dark blue gray deck as seen in the famous National Geographic Foldout. The picture that Darren Sc. posted is taken in Hampton roads around 1961 or 1962. Those are Pax River test airplanes on the back of the deck and I have a huge 16 x20 litho, different angle, of the ship taken moments later, same aircraft, just the figures have moved. A later national Geographic --- dont have it beside me-- has a beautifull bow on picture of CVAN 65, with large white 65 at the bow, and full air wing aboard--obviously operational. I have written letters to Newport News years ago requesting basic historical information on when and why with regards to this, all gone un answered despite the age declassification. A few other carriers I have noted post commissioning had a weathered tan deck, but that too was shortlived when they joined the fleet and were on cruise in the 'new' dark blue gray. Justin Richard--- the CVB Midway classes were war BUILT with steel armoured decks from the get go to combat the kamikaze menace, learning from the British. The other gent that submitted that the ESSEX class carriers were plated steel decks later on in their lives---nope....the wood decks were definitely re inforced only in hard hitting, hard wearing areas like the landing ramp, and around the forward cats, and the wood decks were asphalted over. This is evident in many photographs where the covering has worn away to expose the slatted wood, and this was a terrible upkeep maintenance problem. The ESSEX class Twenty Seven Charlies suffered from a severe top heavy problem and steel plating an entire flight deck would have placed the ship in jeopardy in a moderate to heavy sea. Ray D. Bean, writer for Plastic Ship Modeller Magasine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Paul Fontenoy" Subject: Revell Buckley? Can anyone help me find one of these in any of its various boxings? TIA Paul E. Fontenoy Curator of Maritime Research North Carolina Maritime Museum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Stephen Allen Subject: Re: That darn tan deck! Darren is right, and suggestions that the color is really 'light gray' or 'artistic license' are, in fact wrong but a surprisingly common explanation for a color scheme which doesn't seem to quite fit most personal observations or the tenets of camouflage. There is a classic miscaption in the Kinzey D&S on Enterprise, where the deck is described as 'light gray' in a color shot where it is clearly tan. It is often difficult to see the true color in low angle shots, or where the deck has become very dirty from aircraft handling. Like Darren I have the March 1963 edition of National Geographic, which has full page, and smaller, color views of CVAN 65 in this scheme - tan deck, very dark (almost a pure black) landing strip, yellow guide lines along the strip and a solid white deck number forward. The scheme was gone, replaced by a monotone gray deck with outline white deck number, by the time Enterprise participated in Operation Sea Orbit in 1964. I too, particularly over the last couple of days as I have gone further into this, have seen a number of other images of 1950s and early 1960s US carriers - with steel decks - in this scheme - the more you look the more you see including reconstructed Midways and Forrestals and other shots of the early Enterprise. I think that it was more common than may be believed, and was probably not experimental but a genuine alternative color scheme used on a range of CVs. I would still like to know why, and whether it is linked in some way to commissioning/work-up of new or refitted carriers. Perhaps a high contrast scheme helped new air groups locate the carrier quicker, or had other visibility benefits for testing/shakedown. One of the mysteries remains the actual designation for the color used - FS equivalent or common name. I'm also having a hard time finding a reasonably close match with existing hobby paints. It comes close to Humbrol 250 - Desert Sand (pink) in a comparison with the color photos in the National Geographic, but I am certainly no expert at this sort of thing. I am very keen to track this one down so, again, any views or information or suggested avenues for inquiry would be greatly appreciated. In a way it's strange - there must have been swimming pools of this stuff produced at one time, and it covered acres of deck, yet it has left almost no trace in memory. On another matter, the latest edition of 'Air Classics' has a color spread on USS Essex in the Korean War, her first deployment as a straight deck jet carrier. Lots of Banshees, Panthers, Skyraiders, Corsairs, photos of Essex performing a 'pinwheel' with props lashed to the deck (which is, of course, stained a brown/tan color!), even an explanation of why folded wing Banshees and Panthers were interspersed when parked. Should be useful for anyone contemplating a Korean War era build/conversion of the forthcoming Trumpeter Essex class. regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Rod Millard" Subject: Re: Cutty Sark Bill Theres a real nice kit in 1/120 scale its been produced by several companys. Ertl, Imai,and Monogram. All three companys used the same molds.You can find it usally on E bay. its got very good detail. Also Revell did one in the seventies that was 24" long. But the detail is not as good as the 1/120. You can also find that on E bay. Rod Millard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: wswan@popd.ix.netcom.com Subject: Fine Scale Modeler, etc. for Sale I have had a subscription to Fine Scale Modeler since 1986. I have saved almost all the magazines (I don't know which ones may be missing between 1986-2002 because a severe dust allergy keeps me from handling them!) If anyone would like to buy them please contact me at wswan@ix.netcom.com. Best offer. There is a ton of research material, photos, tips, etc for any modeler here. Even as I write this after taking the magazines out of the closet my head aches and my nose is bleeding! Not kidding, I have a really bad dust allergy. The magazines are in very good to excellent condition and I can't use them. I just hope someone else here can. I am in Boca Raton FL and will ship USPS media rate, which is the cheapest. I also have some Scale Ship Modeler and Sea Classics Magazines. William Swan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALROSS2 Subject: 1/32 scale PT PE For anyone working on a 1/32 scale 80' ELCO PT, I will have a number of approximately 6" x 16" sheets of photo-etched brass available in a couple weeks. These can be used to upgrade the large Lindberg and old wooden Dumas kits. Some of the parts could also be used on a 1/32 scale late-war Higgins PT. The original sheet was made up for a commission I had a number of years back. The sheet includes deadlights, window frames, hatches, fuel fills, SO3 radar screen, torpedo propellor blades, parts for the roll-off racks for the MK13 torpedoes, parts for the MK50 rocket launchers, instrument panel, etc., plus keyed drawings for the roll-off racks, MK50 rocket launchers, and the location of each part on a late-war ELCO (PT 596). Price per sheet is US$65, including shipping to continental US addresses. Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume