Subject: SMML VOL 2093 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:57:56 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: CVAN 65 deck color... 2: Re: Gator Navy/Which Website 3: Re: African Queen 4: Re: Acrylic White Paint 5: ICM 1:350 HMS Hood Release? 6: Re: Cutty Sark 7: Re: African Queen 8: Re: Boat Davits 9: Re: Next Titles from Classic Warships - Aprill 2003 10: Re: Boat Davit 11: Cockroaches & Queens 12: USS SALEM News 13: white paints 14: Re: African Queen 15: Re: IJN Tama colours for 1943 16: Warship Pictorial #18 - USS New Mexico BB40 17: LIBERTY SHIP 18: Re: Cutty Sark 19: Old Revell Clipper Ship kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: MSJ Is On The Way! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: stillmo Subject: Re: CVAN 65 deck color... As a dedicated researcher of US NAVAL CARRIER AVIATION and Carriers post war to present day, I find this thread informative and educational. I posted the original question on two different boards about a full year ago about the Tan/Grey/Blue Gray deck anomoly, and at that time got no responses.....now, someone read the new post and finally some questions are being answered. For US MODELLERS of the older Enterprise, painting the right color at the right time of the service life is pretty important. I dont want to put 150 hours of work on my current CVAN project just to find out after its done how badly I screwed up on a highly visible flight deck color. Its not like we are painting a little mast here black or gray, but a large area. On this and other boards, this is what we do, we discuss and interchange ideas and information and help each other out. Some topics greatly interest me, some do not, I read what interests me, respond in kind when I can, and ignore threads that I have no interest in. Despite the fact that this ship modelling field we all love is by and large quite small---many of us specialize and splinter off into special interest groups, areas of interest and become knowledgable on the things we like about certain eras of ships, and thats what makes this hobby so special. I am sorry we are boring you to tears. Ray D. Bean, modeller for 30 years, and writer for Plastic Ship Modeller Magasine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Re: Gator Navy/Which Website >> Check Commander Models. the link is on this home page. They have a number of kits of amphib. ships in 1/350 scale. << Dave - which website please? I'm beyond lost ... (but eager to learn) Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Re: African Queen First, I want to thank all of you who've helped so far with URLs and other such things. If anybody has those articles mentioned on the model (Billings) or plans from the movies, I'd love to see scans or faxes or whatever. Now, to the question Rick asked: >> What was the 'Louisa, in the African Queen? Was it real and what was its real name? << The book (by Forrester, if memory serves) was fictional. It was presumably based on some real events in East Africa during WW-I. The book also included torpedo boats trucked overland by the Brits, assembled and put into action against Koeniga Louisa (I think that spelling is right - Queen Louise, in English). I have no idea if the Louisa was real - I'm more inclined to believe that there was some small (by any but lake standards) ship that the Kaiser's colonials put onto the water, with a gun just big enough to terrify everybody else. In the movie (and the book) the Koeniga Louisa was a hundred-tunner with no particular armor and a couple of guns in the 75-105 mm range; sufficient to dominate the lake, but not sufficient to do anything else. It was probably a coal-burner, though it might have burnt wood. It cruised at about 12 knots (I think Charlie Allnut said that in the movie). Please - this is all from memory - I've seen the movie a lot, but not recently; and the book I read once about 14 years ago. It was a good read - but I liked the movie better, if only because it was as "sacred" as Casablanca - the ultimate "classic" - if I'd read the book first, I might have had a different perspective. BUT thanks, all - and if you have any other sources, please let me know. Every Google search I've fabricated comes up with way too much unrelated junk, so I'm reduced to begging ... so far, a fruitful venture indeed! Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Stephen Varhegyi" Subject: Re: Acrylic White Paint It depends what type of finish you want and whether you are airbrushing or brushing. If you're airbrushing I really like Gunze Sangyo. The secret with any gloss coat is to give it a very light dusting first. Let it dry for about 15 minutes, so it's still a bit tacky but gives tooth for subsequent coats to stick. Then another light coat so you get sort of an orange peel effect. Same thing, let it dry for about 15-20 minutes. Then finally a nice wet coat to end up with a high gloss finish. If you then want to matt it down (e.g. after applying decals) give it a light spray with gunze clear matt. When I'm airbrushing I use a 50/50 or 60/40 mix of thinner to paint, using Tamiya acrylic thinner, or you can also use methylated spirits (also good for cleaning your airbrush and alot cheaper than thinners) Gunze doesn't brush that well, nor does Tamiya. Gunze tends to leave streaks, whilst Tamiya clumps up if you do over areas which have already been painted. I think the secret with brushing is to do short strokes and ensure your brush has plenty of paint on it. Don't re-coat or go over painted areas until they are well and truly dry. Usually a flat soft brush is best. Longer brushes tend to give a better finish. I've found the best paint for brush painting is humbrol enamel because it sticks better to the plastic and doesn't dry as fast, so you get less clumping. Once again use a little thinner say 10-15% to improve the flow. Hope this helps. Steve Varhegyi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Stephen Varhegyi" Subject: ICM 1:350 HMS Hood Release? I've seen the box art for this kit on the Hannants website. Does anyone know when this is due for release in the Antipodes? (that's Australia for the uninitiated). Steve Varhegyi Hi Steve, Don't hold ya breath mate - this was in the pipeline a few years back, then ICM ran in trouble & I it's been put on hold indefinitely by them. Rumour has it from local distributors that Trumpeter may have it, but who knows. Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: Cutty Sark Dear Bill, It's difficult to interpret lengths of sailing ship models vis-a-vis scales, because often you do not know how the length has been measured. Is it length of waterline, or length of the total hull, or overall length from the tip of the bowsprit. And things can get more complicated if you try to work things out from a dimension taken from the full size ship. Is it length of keel, length of waterline, length overall (which, I think, refers just to the hull), or worst of all, length between perpendiculars, which is an internal measurement and bears little resemblance to anything you could measure on a plastic kit. All a bit of a minefield. I would also echo Kerry's suggestion about doing the shrouds and ratlines yourself. It's fiddly, but the end result is SO SO SO much better. I've never tried wire, so I can't comment on Kerry's suggestion, but I've used various threads. The temptation is to use ordinary sewing thread, but this is a mistake as it's too fuzzy and tends (I am led to beleive) to expand and contract with humidity. Much better to use the special threads and cords that are specially marketed for the purpose by Italian firms such as Amati, Corel or Mantua etc, etc. They come in all sorts of gauges and look very convincing. Whatever you use run it through a lump of beeswax first to reduce the fuzziness. The first model I did like this was the Airfix Golden Hind. This was done in sewing thread and now looks very fluffy indeed! The method I used was to rig the shrouds first, replacing the deadeyes with plastic bits that I made myself. I then cut a piece of card to fit neatly behind the shrouds, marked parallel horizontal lines at an appropriate interval for the ratlines (should be a scale 15"), and cut little snips into the edge of the card at each end of the lines. I nestled the card behind the shrouds and using thinner thread, placed the ratlines across the front of them, holding them in position by tucking into the snips in the card. When all the ratlines were in position I glued them to the shrouds using, IIRC, cyanoacrylate. All the loose ends could then be trimmed up and the card removed and used for the other side of the mast. It's fairly simple to do, and looks quite effective in a medium scale. A few years later, when I came to do HMS Unicorn, I used the same idea of a piece of card for the guidelines, but I tied the ratlines to every individual shroud. 1150 individual clove hitches, each one tied with two pairs of tweezers. (The doctors have all been very nice and they're talking about reducing my medication, just as soon as I stop mumbling "Gold Medal photo-etch"!) Seriously though, the end result is very satisfying. Regarding references, I'd recommend you try to hunt out a copy of "Plank on Frame Models, vol 2" by Harold A Underhill. It's very old and probably long out of print, but a wonderful bible for ship modellers. Vol 2 deals with masting and rigging. Good rigging makes the difference between a model that is just OK and one that is quite wonderful, even if the original moulds are not that fantastic. Regards, David Griffith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kevin Woodruff Subject: Re: African Queen The true story of the naval war in Africa can be found at: http://www.gwpda.org/naval/tang1000.htm It is even more amazing than the story of the African Queen Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: GKingzett Subject: Re: Boat Davits Devin Poore asks about boat davits on US AA cruisers. I think he is on the right track with his idea that one davit swings out first, then the other follows to carry the boat out far enough to clear the ship's side. Look at the way the whaleboats are stowed on late WW 2 US destroyers. To get them far enough inboard for safety, they are stowed on an angle. Clearly, to launch them, one davit would have to be pivoted to get clear, then the other would follow. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Next Titles from Classic Warships - Aprill 2003 >> Warship Pictorial #18 - USS New Mexico BB40 << What happened to the Burke DDG book that had been listed as #18?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: Re: Boat Davit >> Circled in red are the boat davits (at least I think that's what they're referred to as). With the boat stowed, the point inward, BUT to launch a boat, they each swing out 180 degrees. How is this done? They obviously can't simply rotate out at the same time, as the boat would not fit between the gap separating the davits. Did perhaps the forward one rotate back and swing the bow of the boat out over the water first, and then the aft one rotate out, swinging the stern over the water? << You are correct Devin, they are swung out one at a time. I believe there is an illustration of this process in the old Navy Blue Jacket manual. Take a look at the way the boats are stowed on the Benson class DD's (your Farenholt for example). The boats are already arranged in a way where they can be quickly swung out and deployed. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Cockroaches & Queens Franklyn Brown wrote - >> I was told that the cans were a sort of moat to deter cockroaches and ants from climbing up the bedposts and into the beds. After making the beds in the morning my mother always had to check to make sure was plenty of water in the cans, and the bedposts were not touching the sides of the cans. << David McCullough went into detail about this practice in his book on the building of the Panama Canal ("The Path Between the Seas"). Even the hospitals did it! Unfortunately, it took many years for people to figure out the connection between standing water, mosquitos, and tropical diseases like malaria and yellow fever. Shipboard vermin - During my brief, unhappy tour on USS PYRO (AE-24), there were so many roaches onboard I thought one should've been incorporated into the official ship's crest. The "African Queen" - An upscale hotel on the Annapolis (Maryland) waterfront has an actual model prop -- I forget the scale -- from the movie in the lobby. It's about three or four feet long. There's also a lovely large-scale USS ESSEX nearby. This is near the entrance to the Pusser's Company Store. MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: USS SALEM News "USS Salem ordered to ship out MWRA refusing to renew lease for Quincy museum By Associated Press, 1/13/2003 QUINCY - The USS Salem, a retired Cold War-era warship that has served as a museum to the city's shipbuilding industry, faces eviction from its berth at the shipyard where it was built. Last month, the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority, which owns the land and water rights where the Salem is berthed, decided not to renew the ship's 10-year lease. Saying the museum was late on rent payments, the MWRA's board of directors decided unanimously to sell the property after the lease expires in June. That leaves few options for the 700-foot, 17,000-ton heavy cruiser, the flagship of the US Navy's 6th Fleet during the Cold War. It was built in the Fore River Shipyard in 1945 and launched in 1949, but was retired in 1959 when the Navy's shift to missiles rendered its guns obsolete. A plan to move the ship to the city's Marina Bay section was scuttled last year. It was rejected by state environmental officials after Marina Bay residents complained. The Salem's strongest advocate, former mayor James Sheets, remains intent on keeping the ship in Quincy. The ship is a dramatic symbol of the role the city played in winning World War II, he said. ''It would be a tragedy to lose that ship,'' said Sheets, who has chaired the board of directors for the US Naval Shipbuilding Museum since he created the nonprofit corporation a decade ago. ''This is not a political issue to me and shouldn't be to anybody else. It's a historical issue. It's an issue of pride and honor, and an issue of remembrance for those men and women who sacrificed there to build those ships,'' he told The Patriot Ledger of Quincy. Museum supporters have questioned the motives and validity of the MWRA lease rejection and still think a deal can be reached. If not, Sheets said, museum officials could pursue legal action. MWRA officials say the matter is closed. The agency has not reached a decision on exactly how to dispose of the property after July 1, or what will happen if the Salem is still there on that date, spokesman Jonathan Yeo said. The city initially sought the Quincy-built USS Lexington, a World War II aircraft carrier with a dramatic combat history, in its vision for a shipbuilding museum they hoped would draw several hundred thousand visitors a year and boost the city as a tourism destination. The Salem never saw combat, and was considered a consolation prize after the Lexington was awarded to Corpus Christi, Texas, in 1992. But the Salem has never drawn more than 15,000 visitors a year and its finances have been questioned. Margaret Laforest, a museum supporter, said it would be disappointing if the Salem leaves the city. ''There's so much history and pride, so many stories of people that worked there. I can't imagine losing that,'' she said. ''We have a dock right outside my house. They can just bring it here if worst comes to worst.'' This story ran on page B2 of the Boston Globe on 1/13/2003. © Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company." My question: are the MWRA offices within 8" range?? Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: andrew jones Subject: white paints I hated white paint as well, especially Humbrol whites..so i experimented with Wargammers Skull white, not too bad & then i was told of a good way of dealing with humbrol white..is you place the tin is hot water & that is supposed to thin it out & either before or after using a dremel style tool mix the white for about 5 minutes..well i dont boil my whites, so all i do is place a tooth pick in my Ryobi (dremel copy) & give it a stir for a couple of minutes & it seems to go on pretty well for brushing ( did well with humbrol 22 but the other humbrol white was i think totally old stock & was useless) .. as for airbrushing maybe give the wargamers stuff a try, but a bit of experimentation probably wouldnt hurt in regards to what you actually what in colour. Regards Andrew Jones Oz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: ParkHobo Subject: Re: African Queen Richard As far as I know, the 'Louisa' was fictional, modeled as a German Gunboat, along the lines of the fictional American Gunboat 'San Pablo' in the movie "Sand Pebbles," starring Steve McQueen. In reality, the Germans did have a few gunboats in territories they held prior to the outbreak of WWII, holdovers from the Colonialization period of the late 1800's. Lake Nyasa and the river that feeds out of her, as well as Lake Tanganyika were river accessible. There were other lakes that were not, including Lake Victoria. The Germans never had a flotilla in Lake Victoria, but the British did, having built them on the shores of the lake. WWI held but more prominence in colonial defenses for both sides in protecting their holdings, this mainly because that war was predominantly fought by kings. 'Louisa' was depicted as a German Cruiser/Gunboat, but was fictional. BK Dean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bob Reddy Subject: Re: IJN Tama colours for 1943 IJN CL Tama had her decks covered in linoleum that has been shown as various shades of red-brown. For the masochist they has brass strips holding them down. Good luck to your friend if he is into 1/700 ships. Hope this helps. Bob Reddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Warship Pictorial #18 - USS New Mexico BB40 Thank you Steve Wiper - just in time for my birthday. I have put it on the list. Steve Pelham, NH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: LIBERTY SHIP HOWDY YA'LL, A while back i saw something about a 1/350 liberty to be released soon. Does anyone have any info on this? COLORBLIND DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: billkaja Subject: Re: Cutty Sark Thanks for the tip, Kerry. I was originally looking for a relatively quick model to build for an upcoming plastic model contest, and was thinking about an OOB (out of box) entry. There's never any tall ships in these contests, and I wanted to "show the flag" so to speak. The ratlines were just one of the factors I was interested in. I'm also interested in quality of moldings and parts fit, and the detail level. I started converting a Revell 1/250 scale USCGC Eagle to her modern configuration, but got discouraged by all the lousy moldings. There are big sink marks and ejector pin marks all over the model, many right in the middle of details. BTW, I like the idea of fine wire-- I may just give that a go, if I go ahead with the project. So, I'm looking for a model under 2 feet in length, with decent quality moldings, and perhaps with OOB potential. I dislike kits with the heavy molded ratlines, kits with yards and sails molded as one piece, and kits with 1950s era mold engineering..... (I still haven't figured out how an Airfix/Heller kit that claims to be 1/130 scale can be only 520mm in length-- it should be about 675 at that scale...!) Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: billkaja Subject: Old Revell Clipper Ship kits I know that Revell at times had a "Flying Cloud" and a "Stag Hound" in the 16 to 20" LOA size at one time or another. Does anyone know if these were different kits, or were they just the Revell Cutty Sark in different boxes? (Or maybe the Cutty Sark is really a re-boxed Flying Cloud, or Stag Hound, or.......?!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: MSJ Is On The Way! Finally! We have the envelopes stuffed-posted and ready to go to the post office. MSJ is on the way for Winter 2002-2003. We are also in need of articles for larger combatants--which I can't do without a little help from my friends. If you model WWII large combatants; cruisers, battle cruisers, battleships, carriers, large auxiliaries and amphibs etc., definitely submit your work. If you enjoy writing about ships--we have a venue for you. And if you can photograph your models, but don't necessarily write, we can assist there. I am always on the hunt for stunning model photos to grace the cover. We also have a Modeler's Gallery for those single shots you've taken of your pride and joy. We can't pay an awful lot, but not many of us expect get wealthy at this hobby. So share your resources and experience with other ship modelers; projects, how-to, plans, prototype photos, etc. We will return all original material. Keep your X-Actos sharp, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher www.modelshipjournal.com modelships@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume