Subject: SMML VOL 2113 Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:36:46 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: website with many fotos of German WW2 warships 2: Re: Emco Unimat 3: Re: HMAS Australia 4: Re: Thanks re Ticonderoga Hawser Ports 5: Re: Himalaya 6: Re: Nicknames 7: Re: nicknames 8: Re: Prinz Eugen question...my 2 cents 9: Re: Anchor Trivia 10: HIMALAYA 11: More on hobbyshop locations 12: Re: Ticonderoga hawser ports 13: Re: Knots and virii 14: Re: Nicknames 15: Anchor trivia 16: Re: Anchor Trivia 17: Re: New kits 18: Helo Markings 19: Poseidon Kits 20: Re: Nicknames 21: Re: Ticonderoga hawser ports 22: Re: anchor trivia 23: Mirage 1/400 sub colours 24: Re: Anchor Trivia 25: Re: knots 26: CV-6, EX-CV-8 (I HOPE) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: website with many fotos of German WW2 warships http://www.militaria-house.com/kriegsmarine-auswahl.html most were new to me, Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Re: Emco Unimat I bought a Unimat 3 about 20 years ago, and it has easily been the best tool I ever bought. The previous Unimat had two cylindrical rails joined by castings, and they twisted under any load, but the Unimat 3 mas a proper cast bed. It is small, but if you are only making small bits, no problem. Most people who say they are 'toys' are used to using thumping great Myfords or bigger. Fine if you have a concrete floor and a VERY understanding wife! For the rest of us, the unimat is hard to beat. My little lathe is currently set up at my employers workshop where we have a much bigger lathe as well. I can only say the Unimat gets used just as often as the big one, and there was nearly a riot when I hinted that I might take it home again. It has turned titanium bolts for an etching tank we made, brass, steel, acrylic, all sorts of stuff. And if it is good enough for Gerald Wingrove, then its good enough for me! That said, I don't know how a Unimat 4 is different to a 3, but I was under the impression you could fit it with CNC kit. Neat...... Tim Perry wunwinglow www.tjpgraphics.com for flight sim design www.kipperboxes.co.uk for D-Day Landing Craft models (sometime soon!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: GKingzett Subject: Re: HMAS Australia G'day. Building Warship Models, by PC Coker, has 3 close-up photos of models of HMAS Australia, including one from the Australian War Memorial, plus many other detail photos of ship models of the same era, very inspiring. Or intimidating, depending on the kind of day you had. Good Luck Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: brya1716 Subject: Re: Thanks re Ticonderoga Hawser Ports Stephen Varhegyi asked what they're called? I think they're just usually referred to as chocks. If they've got rollers in them, they're called roller chocks. Regards, Bill Bryant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: " David and Alison Muir" Subject: Re: Himalaya >> OK, there's got to be some interesting meaning behind that one . Something obscurely Australian? << Yep! In Oz a "chook" is a hen, aka "a Layer" because thats what hens do. So "him - a - laya" becomes... DM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Starline / Fleetline Subject: Re: Nicknames After a particularly nasty scandle in the early '70s, HMAS Swan was known as "The Fluffy Duck" around the fleet! Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "bert" Subject: Re: nicknames >> OK, there's got to be some interesting meaning behind that one . Something obscurely Australian? << HIM male, Laya female, Poofter= Aussie for homosexul male, Chook Aussie for chicken = Himalaya.= Poofter Chook. 2 while we are on the subject Bellerophon = Billy ruffian. Weston super mare was Aggie on 'orseback. (name was changed to Weston) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: filipesnavy Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen question...my 2 cents Hello all Thanks for the contributions. Still I have some opinions left to discuss. To Stephen, John @ WEM and Werner: Good points here. I was intending to build the ship shortly after they went out of the harbour...maybe in the Fjords. My guess, also seing some pictures of the cruiser, she still had the camouflage scheme in the fjord...when detected by the Spitfire. Still I can't say if she still had the swastika and the coloured top turrets. AFAIK, the germans called the ships "he". There was a discussion not long ago about this subject in SMML. Still, in my humble opinion I would prefer to call it "she". For Detlef: I see your point. When going to sea the ship should be ready for any kind of attack. Still, being the magazine very time in the gun couldn't it be dangerous when facing open seas and salt water??? That couldn't be very healthy for the ammo and for the gun itself. Regards. Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: cpowewax Subject: Re: Anchor Trivia Old wooden vessels used anchor cables probably because anchor chain was not yet invented, and wooden vessels would have been hard pressed to the abuse chain would have had on the chain/cable locker. Modern Nimitz class aircraft carriers have 2 anchors. Each weighs 60,000 lbs (30tons). Each individual link of chain weighs 365-375 lbs. What holds a ship at anchorage is a combination of the anchor, and the "SCOPE" of chain set on the bottom. Wayne USN, Ret. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "David Clark" Subject: HIMALAYA I have never heard that nickname before but it's derivation is pretty obvious: Himalaya sounds like a male egg layer and, hence, a poofter chook. Not politically correct but understandable. David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Pelle Bergschöld" Subject: More on hobbyshop locations I've recently moved in the approximate vincinity of Copenhagen, Denmark. Does anyone know of any decent hobbyshops in that city? Best Regards Pelle (Southern) SWE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Ticonderoga hawser ports >> You sure of that--that they don't have hatches that swing closed? I know the holes are relatively small, but I can't imagine the bow having an opening, no matter how small. It seems to me it would compromise the watertight integrity of the ship, especially in rough weather or rough seas. Any other opinions??? << Rod, Yes I'm sure. I think you may be a little confused as to the location of the ports. They are at the bow, above the deck in the extra bit of splash guard added to the Spruance style hull, (probably because it was maxed out designwise and needed a bit more height above the waterline, but who knows) therefore, no water tight integrity issues. Some ships I've been on have the doors to prevent the deck from getting too wet, but they swing outward to allow any water that did get in to wash off the deck. I've noticed that they tend to rust up and don't really work very well after a few years. If Shane would kindly post the attached photo, you may see for yourself. Regards, Darren Scannell Hi all, The photos have been posted to the Misc Reference page on the SMML site. Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Knots and virii >> Help, please. I recently received an e-mail from a lad whose e-mail return address is: dantracht_1999@1.americanexpress.com requesting a clarification of the term "knot". When I responded, I was notified that the server was unable to deliver the e-mail. I had used his "return address", so there was no typing error on my part. I suspect he may have gotten my name through good old SMML. Can any one please advise me of this fellow's valid e-mail address? I hate to see this essay go to waste. << Franklyn, I'm sure your knot response was very eloquent. However, I suggest you upgrade your virus scanning software, this email had the klem or klez worm attached and the address was probably fictional. I received it as well. Good luck, Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "lamkeel" Subject: Re: Nicknames Looking through some old documentation I found some of my past life. (Sad isnt't it)!. A local newspaper cutting and a programme for the Review of the Fleet at Spithead by Her majesty the Queen on 15th June 1953. I was one of three Sea Cadets selected from our Potters Bar Unit to be a guest aboard the Light Fleet Carrier HMS Theseus. Just three years later, and called up for N/S I was on a differerent messdeck, and steaming the ship. I wound up with her sister HMS Ocean doing the Suez landings. The ships motto- "Action Always" Her nickname tea-issues. My last ship was the commando carrier HMS Bulwark, motto "Under thy wings I will trust". Ships company version "Under thy wings I will rust" also known as "The rusty 'B'" On a more commercial note. On 1/4/2003 I will be increasing my ship plan prices to keep up with postal and paper prices. My web site will also be updated and my new plans will be added. Yours "Aye" John Lambert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: MrkLeonard Subject: Anchor trivia No doubt about a zillion other folks will make this same post, but regarding how anchors work- the anchor fixes the end of the anchor line at a particular point. For larger vessels, the weight does indeed play a part- a big, heavy anchor doesn't move around much. For smaller vessels, the type of anchor used is dictated by the ground it is expected to hold in. When the anchor is placed it is intended to dig into the holding ground, partially burying itself and part of the anchor line (called the 'rode'). The amount of rode is determined by the 'scope,' which is a ratio involving the distance between the bottom ground and the top of the vessel hull. Scopes are commonly between 5:1 and 10:1, depending on anchor type, type of holding ground, and sea conditions. In other words, an anchor rode should be between 5 and 10 times the distance between the bottom ground and the top of the vessel hull. In ten feet of water, plus two more feet to the top of the boat, proper rode should be between 60 and 120 feet (again, depending on various conditions) to ensure that the anchor digs and the rode buries properly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: JohnVCP Subject: Re: Anchor Trivia In our Coast Guard Auxiliary "Safe Boating" classes we teach the following regarding anchoring: 1. If you are just 'lunch-hooking" (i.e., stopping for a short while and the skipper is awake) one should use five (5) times the depth of the water as the length of your anchor line or, more properly, the anchor "rode". 2. Anchoring for over night, for any long term or to ride out a storm - one should use at least ten (1) times the water's depth as the length of the anchor rode. 3.Anchors "work" as follows: A. The anchor's flukes dig into the bottom as long as the anchor can lie flat on the bottom. B. The anchor lies flat on the bottom because the anchor rode is long enough to form a cantenary-type arc from the vessel to the anchor - imparting a horizontal pull on the anchor's stock. As described in the earlier message - just dropping the anchor off the bow, with just enough anchor rode to reach the bottom, will NOT allow the anchor to "set" and it will just skip along the bottom - the reason why many novice boaters find themselves going aground! The weight of the anchor rode - without an anchor - will not safely moor your vessel; nor will the wrong type of anchor. It is the ability of the anchor's flukes to dig in that creates the holding power. We have a lot of fishermen who use a concrete block and wonder why it is not holding! John Heasel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Re: New kits @ Felix: sorry, it was a little bit egoistic to limit on 1/700 and 1/350 kits. Kits in other scales: (source Model Fan 2/03) Airfix: BHC SRN4 Hovercraft (1/144) Tiger & Daring (1/600) Heller: Mayflower (1/150) La Fayette (1/400) Revell: Uboot VIIC 'U 552' (1/72) SSBN Andrew Jackson, tug 'Smit Frankrijk' (1/200) Research vessel Meteor (1/300) Cutty Sark, Amerigo Vespucci (1/350) Battle of Midway carrier (1/542) Trumpeter: Russian Kilo-class attack submarine (1/144) Zvedza: sailing ship Sinus (1/100) English brigantine (1/350) @Gernot: I know the Hasegawa battlecruiser of the Kongo-class, but in Model Fan they wrote JMSDF DDG Kongo and JMSDF DDG Kirishima. Therefore they announce new kits of the Kongo-class (very big) destroyers or the marketing of the Skywave kits. Aoshima also produce new kits of JMSDF ships, which are also produced by Skywave, but different moulds? Best regards Lars Scharff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Leonard, Michael W Subject: Helo Markings Peter asked - >> I have a question regarding USN Destroyers and Cruisers of the 70's to 90's period, that did not have full helicopter facilities. They all seem to have helicopter landing / vertrep spots marked out in white both fwd and aft, but the deck within the lines seems to be a lot lighter. Was it painted differently from the main decks, or am I just seeing heavier wear in those areas? << Not painted differently: Deck Gray over non-skid, and not all classes had forward vertrep spots. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Poseidon Kits Russ wrote - >> I am interested in purchasing a copy of the Poseidon 1/150 Nanuchka 1 as reviewed on the SMML website. However, the reviewer obtained his kit in Norway and I live in Virginia USA. Does anyone know of an Internet source for this Eastern European (?) kit. << Poseidon went out of business years ago, so the Osa and Nanuchka kits should prove hard to find via a retailer. Best bet might be an online auction site or rare kit dealer. Mike Reston, VA USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: M Brown Subject: Re: Nicknames The RN loves nicknmaes, here are some I know of ships old & new. H.M.S. Aggamemnon Eggs & bacon H.M.S. Agincourt This Jutland veteran was known as 'the Gin Palace'. H.M.S. Albion Referred to as the 'Old Grey Ghost'. H.M.S. Antelope Often pronounced Auntylopee (See also Penelope) H.M.S. Ark Royal The “Ark Shark” H.M.S. Bellerophon Billy Ruffian H.M.Y. Britannia The Britt. H.M.S. Bulwark Affectionately known as 'The Rusty B' H.M.S. Charybdis 'Cherry B' H.M.S. Cornwall Dubbed 'the Fighting Ice Cream' due to her pennant number- 'F99' as in the Walls Icecream’s advert about their 99 flavours. H.M.S. Eskimo “The Mo” H.M.Submarine Explorer This experimental submarine was designed to test the suitability of hydrogen peroxide powered engines and due to the volatile nature of this chemical became known as 'Exploder' rather than Explorer. H.M.S. Endurance Nick named 'Red Plum' which is a reference to the unusual colour of her hull. H.M.S. Galatea This Leander class frigate was known as the Black Pig as her first captain's name was Plugge. In the children's TV series of the day, Captain Plugge commanded the Black Pig. H.M.S. Glamorgan Known as the “Glamorous Organ” H.M.S. Hermes Known as “Happy Hermes”' or “Happy Herpes” H.M.S. Hermione Known as “'Hermi-One” H.M.S. Illustrious Name shortened to 'Lusty' H.M.S. Invincible Name shortened to 'Vince'. H.M.S. Juno The Raving-J. Anyone know why? H.M.S. Manchester 'Busy Bee' after the bees depicted on her badge. H.M.S. Monmouth Occasionally referred to as 'Black Duke', remembering the Duke of Monmouth's rebellion. The only RN ship entitled to fly the Black Flag. It may be appropriate to add here that the name 'HMS Iron Duke' refers to the 1st Duke of Wellington, although this is the ship's official name, not a nick-name. H.M.S. Minerva Known as the 'Fighting 45', because she was twinned with an Army Regiment with that nickname. H.M.Submarine Onyx As the only conventional submarine to serve in the 1982 Falklands conflict, the task of undertaking shallow coastal operations lay solely with Onyx. In addition to her standard complement, she also carried an additional twenty members of the SBS (Special Boat Squadron) and, being smaller than a nuclear submarine, conditions were crowded and cramped earning her the title 'The Sardines Revenge'. H.M.Submarine Olympus After a collision, Olympus she was fitted with a fin from H.M.Submarine Cachalot and known as 'Olimpalot'. H.M.S. Ocean Dubbed 'H.M.S. Unlucky' due to early problems. H.M.S. Penelope The World War II cruiser was nick-named H.M.S. 'Pepperpot' due to her pockmarks in her hull caused by bombs and shells at Malta. The Leander Class frigate was mispronounced Pennyloap (see also Antelope) H.M.S. Plymouth “The Gob”, shortened from “Plygob” which was derived from the English slang of gob for mouth. H.M.S. Porcupine After being torpedoed in the Mediterranean, both halves stayed afloat and towed to different ports. Bow were still used, the fore end being a depot ship. They were known to their "crews" as H.M.S.Pork and H.M.S.Pine. H.M.S. Renown & Repulse Due to the amount of time they were in the dockyards being attended to, they were known as the Refit and the Repair. H.M.S. Sheffield 'The Shiny Sheff'. H.M.Submarine Superb 'Super B' H.M.S. Tartar Ratrat, the name backwards R.F.A. Tidepool “Tiddlypoo” H.M.S. Torquay “Torquack” H.M.S. Undaunted “Unwanted” H.M.S. Vengeance Known as 'the Lord's Own', referring to the book of Nahum in the bible: "the Lord will take Vengeance on his adversaries". H.M.S. Wilton Often referred to as 'Plastic Bag' as she was the world's first GRP (Glass Re-enforced Plastic) warship. Minesweepers Recent minesweepers, in particular the Hunt Class, have been jokingly referred to as 'the Tupperware fleet' or failing that 'plastic ships' because they are constructed from GRP (glass reinforced plastic) Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Ticonderoga hawser ports >> You sure of that--that they don't have hatches that swing closed? I know the holes are relatively small, but I can't imagine the bow having an opening, no matter how small. It seems to me it would compromise the watertight integrity of the ship, especially in rough weather or rough seas. Any other opinions??? << The hawser ports are indeed open because they are above the deck, passing through the hurricane bow. The water would just run back off the side. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Harwell, James R." Subject: Re: anchor trivia I was stationed on a "tin can" and as a seaman became well versed in the "let go the anchor" (drop the anchor) and "anchors aweigh" (shouted as the chief boatswain mate watched for the sight of the anchor flukes to become visible in the water as the anchor was hoisted). When the site is established by the skippper as to where to drop anchor (too deep and you lose the whole ball of wax- anchor and chain plus the bulkhead it's blocked to down below)- charts put you on the spot of the proper depth the anchor is "let go the anchor" - the clevis pin is knocked loose and the the chain free falls (control is established by using the winlass brake) the anchor seats itself on the bottom and the skipper backs down the ship to dig in the anchor flukes and then lays chain for the correct positioning of the bow (normally into the wind). If there is a following sea less chain because the ship will ride over and get tangled. When its time to go - the skipper will ride to the chain and begin to hoist by winlass while manuvering to his heading - the chief will site the flukes and call out "anchors aweigh" and the skipper will then relay "underway". To note - the chain is painted colors at different fathom marks so when it is let go a mark can be sounded as to depth and end of chain also when the chain is moving it is known as "paying out" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: andrew jones Subject: Mirage 1/400 sub colours Hiya folks, just a quick question, what would be closest colours in Humbrol & WEM's range for the following 2 subs & pitty there is no pto etched for these subs yet or is there? * U-511 - type U-1X B with the WG42 rockets ..is that the colour scheme a lizard/scale effect or is that supposed to represent the effects of sunlight through the water???? as i intend to do the rocket version first off as in the box art (firing through the water) & then buy the kit again & do the Japanese version * I-506 u-boat used by the Japanese..Japanese WEM paints or still in German paint colours. tied up to a dock , maybe might even get the kit again for the German version who knows might even do the whole range of 1/400 WW2 sub kits & i thought i heard that they will do flush deck destroyers as well... might do nothing but sub kits this year for APMA comps hmmmm thanks Andrew J ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: MGFoster Subject: Re: Anchor Trivia Kelvin Moke wrote: >> ... All I have to do is to go to the bow and pull up the anchor. So how does something that is so easy to remove hold down (anchor) a big heavy boat? ... << There is a whole chapter on anchors & anchoring in the _Chapman Piloting: Seamanship & Small Boat Handling_. Basically, it comes down to size of vessel, weight of anchor and length of rode and depth of water. Yes, it is the anchor that holds the vessel in place, though the anchor rode (line/chain attached to the anchor) may have a very slight holding effect (by weight. That poster on rms was incorrect when he implied that the hawser holds the vessel & not the anchor.). There is a table in Chapman's that shows which anchor/how much rode you would require per size of vessel (small boats only). Finally, the amount of rode let out depends on the depth of water. IOW, you have to let out enough rode so the pitching of the vessel will not pull the anchor out. This means that the angle of the rode to the anchor must be very low. This is accomplished by letting out enough scope ("[ratio of the] length of anchor rode to the height of the bow above the bottom of the body of water") to allow the rode to lie at as small an angle to the anchor as possible; and, allow enough line so the vessel can pivot around the anchor without unsetting the anchor. The recommended scope is from 7:1 to 8:1. I.e., 7:1 means - for every foot of distance between the bow & the bottom, 7 feet of rode must be let out. The reason it is so easy for you to pull up an anchor, is that by pulling on the rode you increase the angle of the rode to the anchor. This increases the probability that the anchor can be unset. When the rode is "up and down" (no longer lying on the bottom) all you have to do is unset the anchor with a sharp jerk. The rest is the effort of pulling the weight of the anchor and wet rode up from the bottom. I don't suppose (on a small boat) that weight would be much above 50 lbs. See your current Chapman's for a more thorough discussion. Regards, MGFoster:::mgf Oakland, CA (USA) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: knots Franklyn, I received the same request about knots as you did. It came in with a couple of other emails. One of them, I don't remember if it was that one, was intercepted by Norton Anti-virus. In any event, it didn't feel quite kosher to me, so I deleted it. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "DUCKMAN Subject: CV-6, EX-CV-8 (I HOPE) Howdy all, I would appreciate some advice on my conversion. What is the best way to remove some of the hangar deck doors? i surely don't want to screw up any parts. how can i scratch-build the tripod mast and gun control platform, etc.? does anybody want to swap a couple (maybe up to four) sbd's for a like amt. of f4's and/or tbd's? DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume