Subject: SMML VOL 2128 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:02:23 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Semi Kits/scratchbuilding 2: Armada Argentina Question 3: Re: Ex Brazillian RN WWII "H" and ex Turkish RN WWII "I "Class 4: Re: Prinz Eugen question...my 2 cents 5: Re: Revell & Renwal USN kits 6: Collectors Value Guide 7: Re: Kit Collectors Value Guide 8: waterlines 9: Re: SQUADRON PUTTY 10: 1/350 USS Texas 11: Re: Angled Deck ESSEX in 350th--Plastic Kit.... 12: Re: Parts for 1/350 NJ 13: Re: Alfa 14: Re: Raven and Roberts Book! 15: RDchesnau/Chatham Shipcraft series 16: U-60 17: USS Princeton 18: Re: Water lines 19: Re: USCG Plans sources 20: Re: Thinning Squadron Putty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WEM's 1:350 Hornet PE sets for sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: roger.antrobus Subject: Semi Kits/scratchbuilding Hello all I'm new to the list and would much appreciate your collective advice. I am thinking of building a 'glass case' model of a Fleetscale semi kit - either HMS Warspite or HMS Queen Elizabeth, at 1/128 scale so about 60" long. Does anyone know of a modeller who has done anything similar, or, where there might be a photo history of such a build? or as some call it a 'practicum'. Regards, Roger Haywards Heath, Sussex, England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "F. Pletscher" Subject: Armada Argentina Question I just couldn`t resist one of the last Revell 1/700 kits of those Type 42 destroyers which I found in a local hobby shop. I thought I could build it as an Argentine ship, but there are some questions: - As far as I could find out, Hercules and Santisima Trinidad were first fitted with two Exocet launchers on the hangar, and these were replaced with four launchers, two on each side of the funnel, in early 1982. Now I would like to know if this was done before the Falklands War broke out. - Argentine warships are seemingly painted in a light tone on the vertical surfaces. I assume that the same color was also worn in 1982. I wonder if this was/is a neutral gray or a rather blueish tone or even a greenish one (all these tones can be found on different photos taken under different light conditions). - I also assume that decks and horizontal surfaces were a dark gray, and wonder if this is correct. Any help would be appreceated. Falk Pletscher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: Ex Brazillian RN WWII "H" and ex Turkish RN WWII "I "Class >> Does anyone know definitively whether these six "H" (Harvester, Havant, Havelock, Hesperus, Highlander and Hurricane) and two "I" (Inconstant and Ithuriel) had the standard "H" class bridge or the modified bridge of the Hero, Hereward and the I class? (Snip) I also understand that the ex Braz H had only 3 4.7in guns (no "Y") and the ex Turkish I had quad not quin torpedo tubes. Correct? Anything else I should know? Directions to photos, etc? << HESPERUS was subject of a Warship Profile that has extensive coverage of all the ex-Brazil H class. No Y gun is indeed correct for them. Note that CinC made a 1/2400 scale wargame miniature of this class. Brooks A Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen question...my 2 cents This dates back from Thursday, Feb 6, 2003 >> AFAIK, the germans called the ships "he". There was a discussion not long ago about this subject in SMML. Still, in my humble opinion I would prefer to call it "she". << If the Germans called ships "he" then why does Baron von Mellnehein-Rechburg in *Battleship BISMARCK: A Survivor's Story* record captain Lindemann speaking that such a powerful ship as the BISMARCK, despite the tradition, should be called "He" vice "She" and ordering the crew to do so? It is in Russian that ships are traditionally He instead of She. However it has also been commented that on a ship's bridge the officers will say "ask what he intends to do" in reference to another ship, but they are in fact referring to the officer of the deck or CO, giving the steering orders to the other ship, not to the ship itself. Brooks A Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: Revell & Renwal USN kits >> A few months ago at a contest while talking to a ex- navy guy who collected Renwal and Revell kits. I learned that the reason the Renwal kits of our early DDG's and CG's or Revell kits weren't accurate was because of a disinformation program started by the USN to confuse the Russians in the early 1960's who buying anything to get accurate intelligence. Has any one ever heard of this? << I strongly doubt this. Never attribute to government malevolence what is adequately explained by private industry's stupidity, or the viewpoint that models are toys, or the similar viewpoint that modelers don't care about accuracy, or even when models are considered to be important, nontheless the plastic ship modeler is distinctly a second-class citizen and is expected to be content with inaccuracies that would result in howls of protest and boycotts of kits if they were perpetrated on aircraft or tank models. Brooks A Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Collectors Value Guide Axel, Try calling him directly in the US at (405) 341-4640. I have the book and it is a good reference book, but I wouldn't pay much attention to the values listed. It doesn't take into account the values due to online auctions--For instance he has the value for a Revell Boeing SST listed for between $6.00 and $10.00. But I just sold on one Ebay for $200.00. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SantMin Subject: Re: Kit Collectors Value Guide John advertises his book for sale in FSM. Here is the info: $40 surface or $50 air mail out of the US. John Burns 3213 Hardy Dr. Edmond, OK 73013 USA Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ED_LARYEH Subject: waterlines Naval Architecture is a real complex art. Part of it involves designing things to be both functional and look good. Another part is that the dang things have to float. (and remain upright!). This means that the weight of every piece used in the construction is computed, as well as the volume of the hull (below the water line - and including all those complex shapes that make the ship travel smoothly through the waves and make it easy to steer) The bottom line is: the weight of the parts has to match the weight of water displaced by the underwater volume of the hull. That means you can compute exactly where the line OUGHT to be under normal conditions. Then there are those funny shaped lines named for Mr. Plimsoll to show you how deep the ship can go in various kinds of water (fresh river water is not as dense as sea water and the ship will immerse more of her hull in fresh water without changing the weight by a single gram). Add on the problems of balancing how much weight to allow for armament, fuel, ammunition, armor, etc. and you end up with a terrific appreciation for just how much effort goes into designing a major vessel. I, for one, have a lot of admiration for the people who produce those ships that we make miniature copies of. Aryeh Weherhorn Elazar, Israel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Peter Samolinski Subject: Re: SQUADRON PUTTY David in Dixie: use Testors (or similar) liquid cement to thin the putty. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Russell_Lessard@aigvalic.com Subject: 1/350 USS Texas I heard from some of you towards the end of 2002 that there would be a plastic 1/350 model of the USS Texas coming into production this year. Any updates? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: stillmo Subject: Re: Angled Deck ESSEX in 350th--Plastic Kit.... Yes, there will be a 350th 27Charlie angled deck ESSEX, probably as INTREPID, kit release. R and D has only been started and I have been approached by a Far East company to assist in the R and D ..... I will be getting emailed jpegs of the master as it is being produced and will be approached for mistake corrections where applicable. Your next question is release date??? Well, I do not know and anything you hear now is a rumor. Lets just make sure they do it up right first of all. And no, I have no idea how many or type of aircraft will be involved. You can bet that there will not be enough, and there will be lots of room for more after market replacements and accessories. Ray D. Bean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Richard Rathgeber Subject: Re: Parts for 1/350 NJ To Ed Wandall I have several spare mounts. If you'd care to have them give me a call at 215-794-8237. My New Jersey sadly is gone to a good Home. It was a Xmas present for one of the Doc's fathers. Rick Rathgeber ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: David Wells Subject: Re: Alfa Fellow SMMLlies: Since we seem to be thinking about Project 705 "Lira" (NATO Codename "Alfa") lately, I'm going to ask about paint. I have a DML/Dragon 1/700 sitting on my work table, ready for paint, but I'm not sure what colors to use on it, especially below the waterline. Any clues? I also have a DML/Dragon Project 945 (NATO Codename "Sierra") right next to it in a similar state. Should I assume a similar paint scheme? Any advice on quick & easy corrections (I'm not going to put that much work into either kit) would be helpful too. "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: David Wells Subject: Re: Raven and Roberts Book! RDChesneau wrote: >> As to the Cruisers book, I would not hold your breath as far as Cassell are concerned - although NIP could have different ideas. << Would it help if we begged? ;-) Please, oh please, NIP & Cassell!! Reissue the cruiser book! ;-) For those who haven't seen the Raven & Roberts battleship book, it's excellent. I make extensive use of mine. I've only got photocopies of a couple of pages of the cruiser book, and those make me want to buy the whole thing!! "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Doug Marrel Subject: RDchesnau/Chatham Shipcraft series As you may have guessed, I am extremly interested in the CVS class book from Chatham. Can you provide who the US distributor or an online UK distributor might be and let us know when it will be out? Doug ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: andrew jones Subject: U-60 Hiya folks Im building the Mirage U-60..now what is the closest colour of humrol for the upper parts..also is the deck wood (teak) colour ..figure for the lower hull just basic black I dont have the box art in front of me,so i cant remeber what i was going to ask Also... the wire/net cutter that was removed after 1942? by that time it was in a training school right?? Thanks AJ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: AMMERSAVIN Subject: USS Princeton Any knowledge of a kit of the USS Princeton CVL-23? It is OOP from DML. I'm trying to build one for a survivor, but am out of luck. Any sources? -I seem to have looked everywhere! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "David N. Lombard" Subject: Re: Water lines From: Fkbrown90 >> One thing that has always amazed me is how shipbuilders could determine where to paint the waterline prior to launching. The process is further complicated by the fact that the hull is built on a sloping platform (to allow the hull to slide down the ways into the water). How about such humunguous hulls as the Titanic etc. of the early 1900s? Those old timers knew what they were doing, fer sure. I have seen some smaller wooden craft, sailboats in particular, where the waterline is actually a small groove carved into the wood. Now that is a case of being sure of one's design quality. Can any SMML people please comment? << Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke Seriously though, there no magic involved at all. The engineering is well known and understood. To be sure, there were errors made, e.g., my old "Steel Shipbuilding" had a picture of (IIRC) an Italian ship layed over on its side just after launching, but that's what things like Lloyds, Norske Veritas, ABS, & etc rules for shipbuilding are for -- to codify years of practice into well-defined, easily followed rules. As for the actual calculations, the bouyancy and static stability of a hull is defined by the shape of the hull and the vessel's weight distribution. This is easily (if not somewhat tediously) calculated by constructing tables, where the various columns work out areas and volumes by Simpson's rule. I know there are other Naval Architects on the list, and I know we all suffered through seemingly endless hand calculations of boyancy and stability curves of ships. Today, much of the preliminary static design of any hull can easily be calculated with a PC spreadsheet using only addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. David N. Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA N 33 deg, 48', W 118 deg, 5' ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: billkaja Subject: Re: USCG Plans sources An excellent source for USCG plans is the Coast Guard Museum Northwest, in Seattle, WA. They have a nice library of plans, and their copying charges are very reasonable. Some of the guys running the place are ship modelers, which helps, too! Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: billkaja Subject: Re: Thinning Squadron Putty I use the squadron white putty. I thin it with Testor's airbrush thinner. I often thin it to a paint-like thickness, and then apply it with a paint brush. I can really work it into fine seams that way. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Kerry L. Jang" Subject: WEM's 1:350 Hornet PE sets for sale Hi all, I have received as an unwanted gift two of White Ensign Models brand new PE sets for the new Trumpeter HORNET kit in 1:350. The two PE sets are: 1) USS Hornet "The Ship" Set 2) USS Hornet "Perforated Catwalks" set. I'm asking for $100.00 CANADIAN dollars and I'll pay airmail shipping. That's cheaper than buying from WEM direct. If you are interested, please contact me off list at: kjang@unixg.ubc.ca Cheers, Kerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume