Subject: SMML VOL 2141 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 05:26:18 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ghost Fleet 2: Re: SARATOGA 3: Liberty ship kit list 4: Re: Russian ship Web site 5: Southern California Sights 6: Re: Swastika orientation 7: Re: Swastika orientation 8: Re: HMS Lion Plans ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Ghost Fleet News item: Where to Dispose of Virginia's 'Ghost Fleet'? U.S. Seeks International Sites for Junking Old Ships Despite Concerns Over Pollution http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12600-2003Mar11.html MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: stillmo Subject: Re: SARATOGA Hi Derek from Ray in Canada.... further to your musing and ramblings---hey I do that a lot too. I think with regards to the SARA kit, fix what you can, re shape and make parts where you can and live with it. I painted mine up in the Dazzle scheme and thats pretty awesome in itself and a topic of conversation to an uneducated visitor to your modelling bench. Dazzle scheme can pull the eye away from glaring errors. I built mine as I say years ago and I didnt even realize or know about the shortened funnel. Hey, I had fun building this unique looking prewar to late war ship---the only one out there to this day in that scale, and it still looks great on the shelf. If I were to build it again today I would do a lot more shopping and hacking and clearing up a lot of errors, but you know, there are so many more kits I have sitting in boxes screaming at me ..."build me! build me!" that I think i will let my old SARA have her reserved spot and go on to the newer stuff. And I tell people I built this XXX number of years ago and I get a real WOW reaction. I still have an old YORKTOWN diorama converted from the old HORNET kit at about the same time frame, pre war light gray, big Y on the funnel, mahoganney decks, and at that time I converted some airplanes to biplanes te resemble something of that time era, and the amaZing thing is I never threw that kit out....I kept it over all those years and it holds its own quite nicely amongst the others. I have had to repair it quite often as when I take it out to model displays the masts get broke and bent, the aerials snaap off, but its to me a touch to my modelling past. Ray D. Bean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: cfrieden Subject: Liberty ship kit list I am in the process of putting together an online Liberty ship modeling guide. First up is a kit list. I have posted all that I am aware of; if I missed any please let me know. I will be posting more info on individual kits at a later date. I am planning on adding info on plans, photos, and books as well. I am also going to put together some articles on rigging, deck cargo, etc. The kit list is posted at: http://chris.friedenbach.net/hobby/liberty/kits/index.html Regards, Chris Friedenbach Crewmember, Liberty ship SS Jeremiah O'Brien ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Vladimir Yakubov" Subject: Re: Russian ship Web site For Russian books the best site is www.armybook.com. They have the best prices (for English language websites) and have a very good customer service. I've been buying from them for several years and never had any problems. They are a little slow (it depends on whether or not they have the book in stock, if they do youi should receive it within a month, if not it may take much longer), but they always deliver in the end. If you are looking for more exotic subjects then www.eastview.com is your site. Their inventory is extremely large (I bought a 1932 text book from Soviet Naval Academy on artillery tactics from them on a CD), but their prices are exorbitant (2-20 times their price in Russia - for example 5 volume History of Fatherland (Russian) shipbuilding cost $7 on a russian language site on there it cost some $40 or $50 a volume). However they do have a lot of the stuff that no one else has, so if you can't find it anywhere else look there. Vladimir ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Southern California Sights I'm going to be flying into L.A. next weekend for a wedding, and then spending a week making my way north to the Bay area. There is a museum in the L.A. area, mainly aircraft oriented, but it also has some huge (1/72nd or so) scratch built metal ship models, I believe. Does anyone have any info on what this place is called and where it's located? I'm aware of, and have visited previously, the Bay area attractions (Hornet, O'Brien, USS San Francisco memorial, etc.) but don't really know anything about the La La Land area. Thanks, Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: URUDOFSKY Subject: Re: Swastika orientation Hard to say in retrospect, if there was a reason other than graphic art. The "Reichskriegsflagge" (Reich war flag), the "Nationale-und Handelsflagge und Gösch der Kriegsschiffe" (National and Merchant Flag and jack on warships), the "Flagge für Wassersportfahrzeuge" (yachts and pleasure boat flag), and the "Lotsenflagge" (pilot flag) all have the "rolling" swastika as do most medals, badges, and street banners. The horizontal swastika, often with a lined border, was used on the Führer's standard, the Reich government service flag, and the NSDAP (Nazi) party pin; however, the "Reichskriegsminister" (Reich minister of war) flag was also of the "rolling" type. The ship deck marking is generally the "rolling" swastika as seen on "Prinz Eugen" and "Scharnhorst"; by contrast, Ballard's famous photo shows "Bismarck" with a horizontal swastika. AS TO SHIP MODELS: contemporary official WWII models, made by Wiking Modelle at the scale of 1:200, show the "Deutschland/Lützow" with a stern marking of a horizontal swastika within red circular disc; however, the "Hipper" has the "rolling" swastika, also within a red disc, not painted from port to starboard across the deck. Having said this, I personally would not add the red flag to the decks of a German warship model. Not because of my political orientation or because it may offend someone, but I think it detracts from the overall details of the model as do yellow or red turret tops. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Daniel Bauer" Subject: Re: Swastika orientation Hello Franklyn, I believe part of the reason for the slow response to your question is the fact that the evidence of how a swastika was placed on a ship, if in deed one was placed is hard to find. Not all ships had them painted on. We know that Bismarck had them. But even with that ship there is much debate on the angle, and the colour of the banners around them. On Bismarck for instance, some sources say gray, some say red banners. Also there is a debate as to if the sterm swastika had a banner at all. On Schanhorst for instance, in 1939 the swastika was at the regular angle, as on the national flag. But it had no banner around it. The stern swastika was painted on later. So you almost have to know not only what ship you are talking about, but also what period of the war you want to show the ship in. Give me a ship you have in mind. And I will try to help if I can. Best Regards, Dan Bauer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: HMS Lion Plans >> I have the Norman Ough plans in 1:192 of HMS Lion. In fact I have just made two copies for two people and sent one off (the other has yet to send me their postal address, so if you are reading this Pavel....). Email me direct on bill.livingston@linn.co.uk I'll do this at cost plus postage which will be around $5.00 !!!!! I'm in Korea and Japan for two weeks after this weekend and am unlikely to have time to get them done before I go... But if you are patient I will help you out. << Bill, I sure hope the person/persons who sell these plans don't mind you diluting their business. What you are doing here is a very clear copy write violation. It would be like photo copying one of my books and giving it to your friends. Tell your friends not to be so cheap and buy their own copy. We who produce items like this do like what you are doing. It just wrong and you should know better. Steve Wiper Classic Warships ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume