Subject: SMML VOL 2166 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:52:27 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Balkans barge 2: Depth Markings on RN Ships 1993 3: Re: Was Musashi better than Yamato? 4: Re: Musashi 5: Re: W vs. K Call Letters 6: Yamato and Musashi - Tactical Situation Dictated Tactics 7: Re: USN Ship Number Font 8: Re: Ship numbers font type 9: Re: Arromanches colors 10: Yamato & Musashi 11: Re: Official RLM colours for marine aircraft 12: Re: Supplyship/Oiler Altmarck 13: Re: HMS DIDO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Next books from Classic Warships ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: clem Subject: Balkans barge Hi I'm building a model of a motorized barge purportedly used by the German army to transport tanks across rivers. I have attached a photo. My question is were the two towers shown for fire fighting? It looks as if there is a fire monitor in each tower. I would appreciate any comments. Clem Jensen Dallas, Tx Photo has been uploaded to the Misc Reference page. Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Michael Kear" Subject: Depth Markings on RN Ships 1993 I'm getting to the point where I have to paint the hull of my HMS Ambuscade, and I'm astonished that none of the references and photos I have of the ship show the depth markings in enough detail that I can work out specifically what they are. Does anyone know what would have been there on a RN ship in 1993? This much I know ... No plimsoll line - I don't think navy ships are required to have them. Dont know why but that's all that really matters. The markings are black above the boottopping, and white in the black and red below the waterline, as far down as they can be seen. Does anyone know anything more? For example: Are the markings metric or imperial? (metres and decimals of a metre or feet?) Arabic numbers (i.e. 1 2 3 4 5) or Roman numerals (i.e. I II III IV V) How far down below the top of the boot topping do they go? How far above the waterline do they come? Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Webmaster, Model Warship 72 www.modelwarship.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: PAUL TOSCANO Subject: Re: Was Musashi better than Yamato? >> Yes- Musashi and Yamato were of the same class. << Hi Just a side light to this. Yamato was built at a Navy yard, while Musashi was built at a private yard. Living conditions aboard Musashi were a little better and she was nicknamed the Palace. Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: spallen Subject: Re: Musashi It should be pointed out that attacking both sides was SOP at the time: doing so maximized the chances of a hit by reducing the ability of the ship to turn away (attacks were generally made on either side of the bow at oblique angles). Ironically, Yamato actually had more room to avoid them than Musashi did. Steve Allen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: W vs. K Call Letters OK David, you are 90-something percent correct in that W applies to East and K to West radio/tv stations. As a ham radio op and SW listener (KC6BLD and K2TEX are my stations),I've observed several Eastern stations assigned as K, e.g., station KDKA is in Pittsburgh, PA, etc. I was assigned my KC6 call sign in Calif, but live in NJ. Go figure. Gene Katz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Yamato and Musashi - Tactical Situation Dictated Tactics While I don't want to dispute the observation that the USN "learned" something from the attack on Musashi, and therefore concentrated torpedo attacks on only one flank of the Yamato (leading to capsizing and a faster "sink"), don't discount the tactical situation. In each case, IMO, the USN commanders on the scene adapted to the tactical situation, putting the enemy at greatest risk while minimizing the risk to the pilots. The attack on Musashi was near-ideal (considering the tactical situation) - it was very closely paralleled a few days later when our Jeep Carrier fliers used the same swarming attack on the Japanese task force. Let me explain this thesis. Musashi was at the center of a large battle formation of heavily-armed ships, all well-protected by AAA of all caliber - guns amply covering every quadrant of the sky. Literally, Musashi was ringed by potent defenses. These ships were cleared for action, and were sailing and maneuvering in tight waters, and - as noted - all of the ships surrounding Musashi literally bristled with AAA. In that tactical environment, IMO, coordinated "swarm" attacks (melee combat at it's best - or worst) - coming from all compass points all at once - would far more effectively divide Japanese AAA attention. This swarm tactic gave our USN pilots both a higher survival quotient and a better chance at a hit on the well-protected central target - I do NOT think it was accidental or ill-considered. Yamato, however, was part of a much smaller formation, which was attacked by overwhelming force in open water. It was far easier for the attacking aircraft to be coordinated, and it was far less risky to concentrate attacks on one side. The key thing to remember, IMO, is this: The Musashi was sunk. Therefore, the attack had to be considered effective. When sinking ships that are not in direct or imminent contact with friendly surface forces, there are no bonus points awarded for the speed of the sinking (if you're in toe-to-toe contact, obviously it's better to see your enemy pull a full-frontal Hood - you don't have to dodge return fire nearly so long - but that didn't apply here, since friendly forces were hundreds of miles away). With the Musashi, speed-of-sinking was not an issue. Success against massed and massive AAA opposition WAS an issue. Based on a lot of analysis of the attack on the Musashi task group, I'm convinced that many more of our flyboys survived because they swarmed in from everywhere, all at once, overwhelming the Japanese's ability to coordinate their AAA defenses. To further illustrate the benefits of such swarming attacks in the midst of a pitched battle, take a look at what happened a few days later at San Berdoo Straights. Though this battle (unlike the Musashi and Yamato assaults) was not coordinated in ANY fashion, our ad-hoc swarming attack worked. There, our basically unarmed fighters (.50 cal M2 machine guns against battleship armor is "basically unarmed" in my book) swarmed over the Japanese capital ships exiting the San Berdoo Straight. In the process, these fighters suffered remarkably few losses - in spite of the intensity of their attacks. The Japanese AAA just could not concentrate. Probably as much as the confusion caused by the swarm itself, this tactic forced the open-deck AAA gunners to constantly watch from attacks (against them) from all quarters, further disrupting any attempt at coordinated, aimed AAA defensive fire. Our lightly-armed planes did relatively little physical damage - hell, our fighters carried MGs and maybe some light anti-personal 2.75 unguided rockets - and our bombers mostly had to use 500 lbs GP bombs intended for ground attack against unfortified targets - again, not very useful against armored combat ships. However, those planes did, along with those incredibly brave DDs and DEs, turn back that massive (and massively superior) Japanese surface-action task force. I'm convinced the planes' swarming attacks helped to psychologically overwhelm the materially superior Japanese, and the planes' relative invulnerability very likely magnified the apparent scope of their attack. None of this applied to the Yamato. That ship was isolated and relatively unsupported by escorts. The planes had (for all practical purposes) all the time in the world to organize and execute their attacks. Their target couldn't touch US assets, it was relatively undefended by support ships, and it was in open water (aiding torpedo attacks). So why not conduct a text-book attack? In each case (and in the case of the San Berdoo Straights donnybrook), the USN flyers made the best use of their tactical environment to overwhelm the enemy's defenses and accomplish the mission - scratch one super-battleship! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: USN Ship Number Font I can't speak for other navies, but a very good font for USN hull numbers and lettering is MACHINE. It's included in most font sets used by MS Word, Adobe Page Maker etc. Machine has the standard "collegiate" style typeface and angled corners. (For U.S. Coast Guard fonts, I generally use Helvetica bold or medium.) If you have Page Maker, it's easy to make USN shadow lettering by dropping the same font/point size character in white behind the black character and shifting it so it stands proud of the top layer. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL WWW.modelshipjournal.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Ship numbers font type To: Rolie Muise I don't know the official name for the font used in numbers painted on the bows of U.S. Navy ships, but I have used a dry-transfer decal set put out by Woodland Scenics, the series is called Model Graphics. They specify it as "Numbers 45 degrees USA Gothic". My guess is that the 45 degrees refers to the corners of each figure. They have two model numbers. One is model no. MG 746 Black, the other is MG 747 White. The sizes are 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, and 5/16, all on the same sheet. I don't know if they have larger size figures, you could inquire. If you need larger figures, and if you are particularly computer savvy, perhaps you could scan a sheet, enlarge it, and print it on special decal paper. Perhaps. The white figures are used for most U.S. Navy applications. Sometimes numbers indicating the keel depth, or draft, are painted low on the stem, near the waterline. Black is for figures above the waterline, white for figures on the black boot topping, and either black or white for figures below the waterline, according to the shade of the bottom paint. Woodland Scenic should have letters also, for you to use for the Plimsoll Mark on older merchant ships. I got mine in a model railroad supplies store, they cost $4.29 a sheet, which may seem a little expensive at first, especially if you have only one model to adorn, but try doing it by hand and you will quickly see the light. Don't ask me how I know. I have often wondered how anyone aboard a ship could see the relatively small characters painted down low, very near the waterline, on the stem, or on the sides of a ship. Any comments, SMML? Bluejacket Shipcrafters' latest catalogue (just arrived today), on page 27, has a U.S. Naval dry-transfer decal sheet of U.S. Naval numbers, both shadowed and non-shadowed styles, from 1/8 to 1/2, pre WW2, WW2, and post WW2 styles, including draft marks. Woodland Scenic's characters are not shadowed. Bluejackets' sheet is more expensive, at $15.00, but the shadowing (white figures with black shadowing) is very hard to find. Both sources would be worth looking into. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "L'Arsenal" Subject: Re: Arromanches colors Hello, I will be in Paris next week for the annual Paris Model Show and will have the good luck to meet the famous French Naval historian, Robert Dumas who wrote the books on the Richelieu, Jean Bart, Dunkerque and Strasbourg, etc... I will ask him about the colors of the Arromanches and keep you informed. Best regards from Normandie, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SCALSHPYRD Subject: Yamato & Musashi One of the reasons why the loss of life on the Yamato was much greater then the Musashi was that with the Musashi the attacking aircraft had a lot to do with the Japanes fleet and did not have the time to hang around and straf the survivors in the water like they did with the Yamato. W.L. Upshaw The Scale Shipyard www.scaleshipyard.com Largest Selection of quality fiberglass model ship hulls. Now Accepting PayPal for in stock items ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: URUDOFSKY Subject: Re: Official RLM colours for marine aircraft You don't have to know German: the webpage is self-explanatory and gives RLM, RAF, FS, and RAL cross-refs and paint maker cross-refs etc: http://jpsmodell.de/dc/dmain.htm Ulrich Rudofsky ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Sab1156 Subject: Re: Supplyship/Oiler Altmarck This ship and her sisterships will be available very soon from H.P.-Models in Germany D.Hartwig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: WRPRESSINC Subject: Re: HMS DIDO I have found a copy of photo IWM A21018 in my files, and it is in fact the Aurora, and so I withdraw my request of recent date. As to the camouflage of the Dido, it is too late to include in Vol 1V, which will be out very soon, assuming that the publisher doesn't mess things up the way they sometimes do. What I will try to do, is to produce a starboard side profile with a stab at the colours and then find someplace to show it for anybody who might be interested. Of course the port side pattern is different and still missing. However in Vol 1V there will be artwork of camouflage possibly worn by Dido in 1943 along with text that some might find of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Next books from Classic Warships Just a reminder that White Ensign Models will have these books in stock as soon as they are available, and we're taking pre-orders now. As always, no charge made until we actually ship your order. Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume