Subject: SMML VOL 2169 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:40:32 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USN Ship Number Font 2: Revell Great Eastern info. needed 3: Ogoniok Models 4: Re: How the Musashi sank? 5: New 1/1250th scale website 6: Scale black 7: Re: US AA was MUSASHI stuff, and Kingfisher colours 8: Topedo hits on the Yamato 9: CN kits 10: South Korea launches Stealth ship 11: model repar needed Cable ship in Portland? 12: SUB questions 1/400 & 1/72 13: Potiemkin and Aurora 14: Polish translation 15: Ogoniok Kits of Aurora and Potemkin 16: Re: W vs. K Call Letters ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Get-together in Pacific Northwest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Kit wanted ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Re: USN Ship Number Font Try Tlai Enterprises (http://www.tlai.com/). They make USAF and USN fonts as well as a font for USN carrier deck numbers for both Mac and Windows. Michael McMurtrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Tim Burke Subject: Revell Great Eastern info. needed Colleagues, I recently picked up the old Revell kit of the Great Eastern at a swap table for the princely sum of $5.00! It appears to be complete, but there were no instructions. If somone could provide me a copy of the instruction sheet (booklet?) I'd be eternally indebted. BTW, what scale is the kit? I know I can do the math, but if someone has that information at hand it'll save a trip to the calculator. An electronic copy of the instructions would be ideal, but a photocopy mailed to me would work just as well. I'll be happy to reimburse the sender for any duplication and postage charges. Please contact me off list and we can work out the details. Also, if anyone on the list has any recommendations for reference sources on this ship I'd love to hear about them. Particulary, color scheme and rigging information. Thanks very much. Tim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Ogoniok Models >> Has anyone seen the 1/400 scale Ogoniok of Russia kits of AURORA and/or POTEMPKIN (available, far as I know, from WEM and Squadron)? My big question is, are they full hull kits? After that, any comments on accuracy, how they build, reference sources, etc. Love those pre-Dreadnoughts. << They're definitely full hull kits, ex-Heller. Accuracy is a matter of debate, especially regarding AURORA. Both are old molds and fit is poor in many places. There are good 1/700 resin kits of both ships on the market now. Much less work to build, unless one insists on full hull or wants the larger scale. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: How the Musashi sank? I can't recall if Musashi did eventually capsize (I would not be surpised if she did), but regardless, she is probably sitting on the bottom upright. Almost all ships right themselves underwater before hitting the bottom, provided the hull is pretty much intact (ie. the ship doesn't suffer any catastrophic explostions like the Hood or Yamato). If I remember correctly, Robert Ballard mentions that all the wrecks he examined were, with the exception of the Kirishima. He was very surprised to find the her overturned in the mud. Maybe in the shallow waters of Ironbottom sound, there wasn't enough depth for the hull to right itself? In any case, I would place my money on Musahi being upright (that would make a far more interesting dive then Yamato!) Yohan Fernando ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Utilisateur1" Subject: New 1/1250th scale website For those on the list that have an interest in 1/1250 scale metal collectors models, I'd like to mention that my website www.seaveemodels.com has now gone "live". I'm still in the process of tweaking it and adding photos,so please look in and see for yourself. Ok, 1/1250 might seem a bit "small" but you might be surprised what can be done in this scale! Sean Pritchard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Scale black Hi all, Ok I'll bite, just exactly what would constitute scale black, say in 700 scale? One drop of white paint for 700 drops of black? 50/50? Some other formula? An idle mind wants to know. Happy modeling Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: US AA was MUSASHI stuff, and Kingfisher colours >> Another topic is about the relative effectiveness of anti-aircraft guns in the IJN and the USN. Did the IJN ever get proximity fuses for their AA artillery? << Either they didn't, or they got an infrared based fuze that was not effective. I know the Germans were working for an IR based fuze but theirs was either not ready or not effective either. >> When did the USN get proximity fuses? << The first batch shipped to a combat theater was employed by USS HELENA in late December 1942. They were available in quantity by late '43. >> Is that why the USN AA was so effective? For example, I've heard that less than one out of ten kamikazes damaged their target. Is this correct? << The USN AA was effective in part because of prox fuzes; in part because of better directors and sights for all calibers, and radar on their directors for the 5 inch (and by the end of the war, for 40mm); because the Japanese had no gun with the punch and rate of fire of the 40mm, which saw wide deployment on USN ships. The question on 'less than one out of ten kamikazes damaged their target' cannot be answered as written. Is that one out of ten Kamikazes that took off to attack, or one out of ten Kamikazes that carried out dives towards targets? If the former, US fighters certainly contributed as much or more against killing Kamikazes as antiaircraft. Kingfisher colors: >> However, would it be the Atlantic anti-submarine scheme of two greys over white, or the more familiar two blues over white? << Err.. the Atlantic ASW scheme is ONE grey (Dark gull grey) over white. >> Can anyone tell me if the grey and white scheme was only applied to aircraft operating off carriers, or whether it was also appropriate for battleships' spotter planes? << Well, it was not applied *just* to carrier planes, as Atlantic Catalinas, Mariners, Liberators/Privateers, and shore based Kingfishers also carried it. I also believe shore based Seagulls carried it as well. Brooks A. Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: MRCSCARDON Subject: Topedo hits on the Yamato According to Janusz Slulski book Anatomy of the Ship Yamato, the Yamato was hit by a two possibly three torpedoes in the first attack. All were on the port side. During the second attack, three hit the port and one to starboard. During the third attack two more hit the port and one to starboard. I had the opportunity to talk with individuals from VNT-90 (Enterprise) and VT-86 (Wasp) and they recalled the effort to attack from only one side. If I recall correctly, a group commander was trying to orchestrate the attack. Skulski book has a very good breakdown of the attack. Considering the number of aircraft dispatch and the number of hits, US aim was either bad or it is very hard to hit a moving ship. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Ron Crawford Subject: CN kits Can anyone suggest a source for CN plastic model ship kits? Thank you. Ron ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: John Kutina Subject: South Korea launches Stealth ship http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_13-4-2003_pg4_7 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: model repar needed Cable ship in Portland? Hello Are you in Portland Oregon swan Iland ship repair?, Over by the cost guard station and the pt that is being restore. Get in touch I may be able to help? Depending on what happen? Also wondering what it would need in repair The Model. Don That Portland Rustbucket. Not far from your ship maybe? if your ship is in Portland If nothing else give you sudjustions on what you may be able to? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: andrew jones Subject: SUB questions 1/400 & 1/72 Hiya all .. need some help 1) 1/400 U-60 Mirage: a) The marking for U-60..is it what is on the box art.. a seal with a top hat reason why I ask, is that the box art shows on the rear periscope (?) shows a blob type something on the top of it..(excuse the descriptive terminology), yet the kit has just 2 straight up & down looking periscopes..is that blob a post '42 periscope attachment or improvement? b) the bow cutter..the kit says i guess remove if you want it after 1942, but im leaving mine on to show it pre-1942 hopefully in its combat role..now some diograms show the wire running from the bow coming from the cutter & other show it coming from under neath , kinda short of the cutter. c) wire guide rails around the top deck.. again some line drawings only show a guide rail around the deck gun, yet the photo etched set has a complete set for fully around the hull... is the 1st one when the sub is on a war cruise & the full rails are only for at home base etc?? Next Fine Molds 1/72 Japanese midget sub yes i have seen the internet modeller version..wow ok some questions a) i think the one on internet modeller is the sub with no numbers on the hull..yet there is the numbers 34 & 36..so on the line drawing for hull number 34, there is no torpedo guard is this a mistake on the instruction sheet? b) also for hull 34 the propeller guards are not attached as the line drawings do not show it & the bars that are attached to the prop guard c) hull 36 only shows the coning tower area & not the prop or the torpedo tubes..does this sub have the guard rails?? As i cant read Japanese I would appreciate anyone & im sure anyone out there that has the kit as well would like to know what the titles are for the drawings..though im meeting some Japanese friends, so i might try to get it translated if i can . Hate getting into a kit & finding more questions than answers from books etc & only have a week to finish 1 sub kit, 1 armour kit 1 diorama & 1 command section ARRGGGHHHHHH!, lol Thanks in advance Andrew OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Potiemkin and Aurora As Jessie Sublett and Vladimir Yakubov pointed out the only redeeming feature of those kits is that they are cheap. The quality of casting is atrocious and the overall accuracy quite basic. Aurora is modelled not in her 1904 or even 1917 appearance but as a museum ship circa 1946 and Potiemkin's casamates for 152 mm guns are a bit of a joke. In short, if you build both kits straight out of the box (even with superdetailing and PE) you will end up with models which from a distance and under the certain light conditions (the darker the better) look a bit like Potiemkin and Aurora at some point during their career but if it is accuracy you are after, be prepared for extensive surgery and scratchbuilding. Regards Darius ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Polish translation Since I was on holidays at the time, I could not participate in this particular exchange but let me say how much I have enjoyed the "Polish Translation" thread until John Biskupski decided to become a spolisprt and put the end to all the madness :-). Of course the problem is that Polish alphabet includes about 9 letters which can't be reproduced on an English configurated keyboard so the online translators can be usefull only to the certain extend and often quite misleading. The typical example was the word "lodzie" (boats) which, because two letters couldn't have been reproduced correctly, was translated as "people" (ludzie) or "(on the) ice" ( (na) lodzie). Very entertaining!!! Can't wait for the thread on Chinese or Japanese translation!!! :-) Regards Darius ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "F. Pletscher" Subject: Ogoniok Kits of Aurora and Potemkin These are the old Heller kits. They were pretty good for their time and are still better than some later Heller kits. The Aurora kit, however, doesn't show the original configuration, but the (rebuilt) museum ship. Falk Pletscher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: W vs. K Call Letters >> My experience is that ham radio call signs begin with K. But yes, there are a couple of odd-ball commercial stations that buck the (AFAIK) Mississippi river rule. BTW, I'm '79NA from Schuyler, I think I remember you, perhaps '77 or '78? << Well David, you are close, but no cigar! I am Schuyler, Class of 65 (Deck)!" BTW not all ham calls begin with K, many are W and some (mostly the more advanced) are N. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Get-together in Pacific Northwest This weekend's IPMS Seattle Spring Show should be a good opportunity for some of us to gather in Seattle. See the details at http://www.ipms-seattle.org/Springshow/ We should all make a point to wear a white carnation in our lapels, or something like that... See you there, Rick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Peter K. H. Mispelkamp" Subject: Kit wanted Hi: Does anyone out there in SMML land have a 1/400 Nippon Hobby or Paramount (US Import) Mogami or Mikuma that they want to part with? I don't care about the condition of the box, and am willing to consider a partially built kit. Contact me @ mispelkamp.peter@videotron.ca Regards Peter K. H. Mispelkamp ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume