Subject: SMML VOL 2170 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:52:43 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Helena's damage at Pearl 2: Re: resurrection 3: Today's math lesson 4: Re: Hull lettering 5: Re: Hull numbers 6: Re: scale black 7: Revell Flying Cloud Build Article 8: Re: Scale black (and other colors) 9: SS United States to go back into service 10: Re: Ogoniok kits 11: Re: CN kits...... 12: Re: Revell Great Eastern info needed 13: Revell Great Eastern 14: SS United States 15: Re: Scale Black 16: SS United States ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: SMMLiecon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SceneN3D Subject: Helena's damage at Pearl With reference to USS Helena's damage at Pearl on 12/07/41, she was struck by one Type 91, Mod. 2 ("Thunderfish") torpedo. This weapon,which carried a 452 pound warhead, was 18 inches in diameter, weighed 1,840 lbs. and was purposely designed for the shallow depths (40 to 50 ft)of the Pearl anchorage. It was one of forty carried by the first wave of B5N-2 torpedo aircraft. Helena, which was tied port side to Ten-ten dock and inboard of Oglala, (CM-4), took the hit just below the armor belt against her starboard side after the torpedo passed beneath the minelayer. The resultant detonation breached the cruiser's hull at about frame #75, eighteen feet below the waterline. This initially caused flooding of No. 1 engine room and No. 2 boiler room, with adjacent spaces being flooded as well. After emergency repairs were performed in the as yet unfinished drydock #2 starting on 12/10, CL-50 departed Pearl on 1/05/42 for Mare Is. where she underwent permanent repairs and returned to duty. HTH Bob B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: resurrection From: "Ralf Gerhardt" >> I am a big fan of the IJN and have already some Japanese ship and airplane models. However, I´m wondering why never someone came on the idea to "copy" such a great ship as for example the YAMATO in the original (thus 1:1)??? Or were there ever any plans for such a project, may be on any other warship? Okay - sure that would be an incredible expansive matter, but RMS Titanic is to rise from death too... Perhaps my question sounds some ludicrous, but it would really interest me much... << Two questions: Why? What would you do with it? Titanic is being "reinvented" to serve as a cruise ship. The name is as much a publicity gimmick as a way to honor the original. Building a 1 to 1 scale Yamato might be fun, but what would you do with it? It's not much use as a museum, because it wouldn't be the original, and there is currently a 1/10 (that's one tenth scale) model of her in Japan, so you can see just about any detail you want to see on it. There is no need for new battleships, so she couldn't serve her original purpose. I'm certain there are many, many much better things you could do with the multiple billions of dollars needed for such a scheme. Joe Poutre ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Today's math lesson >> statistically near - improbable hit on the same spot by two torpedoes in the vicinity of an engine room. << The statistics are nowhere near as improbable as all that. A torpedo is about a foot wide. Yamato was about 800 feet long. The chance for one torpedo to hit within the same linear foot as a previous are therefore around 3 in 800. Further, torpedos were launched by aircraft flown by pilots with the same basic training; therefore they would tend to release their torpedos using the same aim point on the target vessel, and at similar distances, with similar settings, thereby increasing the chances of multiple torpedo strikes on a particular area of the target ship. Joe Poutre, aka The Mad Mathematician ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Hull lettering Never having done any hull with shadowed lettering, I have never considered which side of the characters are shadowed. And there is the question of is the shadowing on the same side of the characters (say the right, for instance) as you look at each side of the vessel, or is it on the trailing side (right side for portside characters and left side for starboard side characters) or on the leading side (left side for portside characters and right side for starboardside characters)? I'm sure there must be a Navy Regulation covering this. Perhaps the latest Bluejackets Manual has something, or Jane's Fighting Ships' photos might be helpful. Victor Baca knows, but dumpfkofs such as I have to check numerous photographs. I am reluctant to cite paintings or even line drawings, as artists may render things their own way. I do not recall seeing any gray lettering, but the use of either black or white may be a function of contrast and concomitant readability. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Hull numbers To Michael McMurtrey Thanks for the lead, but I was unable to bring up anything to do with hull numbers. Most of what they have is for aircraft, and the latest update of this site was December 2001. Please advise what keyword (s) would lead to U.S.Navy hull numbers. Thanks. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: scale black Try using the railroad color "Grimy Black." Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Bill Michaels Subject: Revell Flying Cloud Build Article I just wanted to let everyone know that my full build review of the Revell Clipper Ship Flying Cloud was published on Modeling Madness on April 14. To see it, go to www.modelingmadness.com, and click on the "what's new" button. Look under April 14. What is particularly newsworthy about this is it means that I actually finished a model! Bill Check out my list of USCG subjects in model kit form: home.earthlink.net\~billkaja\kitlist.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Re: Scale black (and other colors) I believe the general rule for 'scale color' is to take the square root of the scale denominator and add that per cent white to the 'real' color. For 1/700 scale, the square root of the denominator (700) is between 26 and 27 (I don't have my scientific calculator handy). Therefore, your 'scale black' would be 73% 'real' black and 27% white. Three parts black to one part white is probably reasonable and certainly easier to mix. Michael McMurtrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Darren Scannell Subject: SS United States to go back into service Saw this on the naval news group. Bought by Norwegian Cruise lines. http://www.ncl.com/news/pr041403.htm Darren ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "RAY MEHLBERGER" Subject: Re: Ogoniok kits A little off the subject of ships, but I built Ogoniok's 1/30th scaleI SU-152 Soviet sp gun model. If you think the Potempkin and Aurora were hurting...this puppy was a real mess when I started assembling it. First of all, it is 1/30th scale...and NOT the popular 1/35th scale. Just that 5 points off dwarfs a tank in 1/35th scale sitting next to it. Then the plastic was high gloss, that you could see your mirror image in. The real tank is a cast affair, so I painted the surface of the plastic with liquid glue and stippled it, with a stiff brush to get the cast look. There were numerous ommisions in detail and the air intakes, for the the engine deck...in the rear...were not correct. They had to be cut out and reframed to the correct configuration. Worst of all, and absolutely UNFIXABLE...were the treads. The teeth that are supposed to be inside the links, to engage the drive sprocket, are not tooth shaped but HALF SPHERES!! These are continuous rubber-band type treads, so nothing can be done...and nobody makes aftermarket individual links in 1/30th scale. However, all this being said...the model has won awards after a LOT of work done to it. I have the Potempkin and Aurora kits by Ogonok (by the way....I see no letter "I" in the spelling of this brand name on the boxes). I agree that they look pretty sad...molding wise in the box. I got these kits, unsolicited, from Eastern European pen pals...years ago...when I was really trading for armor kits from over there. I also got a Polish ocean liner kit, called the Batory, and a oil tanker called the Shell Welder. I haven't a clue as to what brand these are as the box arts are all in Russian etc. Ray Mehlberger Contributing Armor Editor for INTERNET MODELER MAGAZINE www.internetmodeler.com (sometimes ship modeler too) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: stillmo Subject: Re: CN kits...... by CN I assume you mean Canadian???? In plastic all there is, is the 72nd scale WWII Corvette type HMCS SNOWBERRY aka HMS BLUEBELL, aka USS SAUCY.... In 350th scale RESIN there is the modern FFH HALIFAX class, from Iron Shipwright/Commander Series, a highly accurate model of a distinctively Canadian subject. You might hunt down a Tribal Class DD if you contact Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies......there really is no mass market appeal for a Canadian subject in injected plastic, and there is nothing on the horizon either.... Ray in Winnipeg, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: Revell Great Eastern info needed Hi Tim According to The Kit Collector Value Guide for Scale Model Plastic Kits. The Great Eastern kit was issued in 1/388 scale and has two serial numbers H-393 and later in the 80's as kit# 5201. The only thing I ever read about the Great Eastern was that she was the largest ship ever built at that time in 1800's. She in 1869 was used to lay the first Trans Atlantic telegraph cable and during her construction two workers got trapped inside her double hull and for a couple months banged on the walls giving the impression she was haunted. When the Great Eastern was scrapped they're bodies were found with the hammers still in their skeleton hands. Well hope this is help to you. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Roger Buckley" Subject: Revell Great Eastern I believe the scale is 1/388 -- yeah I know !! weird. Cant help on the instructions i have only the airfix Great Western and that is shrink wrapped still. Found this web site which may help a little http://www.russellwild.co.uk/greateastern/kitreviews/kitrev2.html cya roger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Donald Woolley Subject: SS United States When I saw this yesterday, I sort of figured that someone would note this before me: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/04/15/historic.cruise.ship.ap/index.html Norwegian Cruise Lines said Monday it has purchased the SS United States, and intends to refurbish it and return it to service. Donald Woolley Duke University ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: GKingzett Subject: Re: Scale Black I have tried this out a number of ways and this is what I have settled upon. It does result in a somewhat light palette, which drives my friends crazy, who use their colors undiluted, but I like that the detail shows up so much better, particularly in the poorly lighted locations where most model shows take place. I use the square root of the scale as a percent of white into black. For example, the square root of 700 is 26, so 26 parts of white, 74 parts of black give me a black shade I am very pleased with. The square root of 350 is 18, so 18 parts of white, 82 parts of black. 192 square root is 13.8, and so on. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with other colors, (imagine what white would look like with 26% black in it) presumably because we perceive the actual ship colors as reflected light, and we are trying to simulate it with pigments which absorb light. I am very interested in this topic, I wish some of the more artistic members of this list would share their knowledge. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: merc Subject: SS United States this just in: http://www.ncl.com/news/pr041403.htm Norwegian Cruise Line has bought the SS United States and will put her back in service. this is better news than various museum attempts.... s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Rule" Subject: SMMLiecon Hi Darren et al. I've started digging my tunnel and hope to be there on the Friday sometime. I will be travelling under a Scottish passport so should be OK. I won't be able to make Haida, but am up for anything else. Just let me know in what bar we are meeting. Looking forward to meeting new people and seeing friends from SMMLiecon 1. John Rule PS Brad don't forget the SM. ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume