Subject: SMML VOL 2173 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Nautilas 2: Re: Supply ship drawings 3: Mikasa Colours 4: wind jamer plan service 5: Me And My Shadow (hull numbers) 6: Doin' The Math 7: the Great Eastern 8: Math Lessons 9: Great Eastern 10: Re: Balkans barge 11: Sub questions 12: Use of an 18" gun for anti-aircraft 13: Re: More Potemkin-Info Requests 14: RMS Mauretania Colour Scheme 15: Daily Math lesson: diameter of torpedo is irrelevant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: SMMLiecon attendees list 2: Buffalo SMMLcon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Unrep ships 2: Orizzonte Mare' Book For Sale 3: Tamiya & Dragon 1/350 kit for sale in Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Richard Rathgeber Subject: USS Nautilas I have a question. I seem to remember either the blue water navy or iron shipwrights once made a model of the pre-World War II submarine Nautilus. I have looked all over the Internet to no avail. Is it my imagination or did this really exist? I would like to make a model for a friend who actually served on the model is in the late 30s. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Richard Rathgeber ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Terry Sumner" Subject: Re: Supply ship drawings Thanks much Ralph...found just what I was looking for there! Now I just need some better detail shots for everything on the decks than the few that I have already... Terry Sumner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Bill Livingston" Subject: Mikasa Colours Hi All, I have been working on my Seals Models Mikasa for a few days now and have done some basic construction and filling and fitting (Great kit by the way.... A touch of Mr Surfacer 500 here and there, and a little bit of jiggling around to get some of the parts to fit really cleanly, but pretty damn good. One of the best ever plastic kits I have come across). On to my question. I have scoured the SMML archive and have seen lots of similar questions to the one I am about to ask.. but could find no answers. My basic problem is one of colour. So far I have had some great help from Jim Baumann and Dan Jones to name but two, and have been informed that Mikasa was painted in an IJN grey (Falk Pletscher via Dan Jones) similar to that used by the IJN during WW2. I had a colour mix from Skulski's Fuso book, confirmed by Dan, and, given that Mikasa was refitted in Sasebo in 1904 having being damaged at the Battle of the Yellow Sea, decided to opt for WEM's Sasebo Grey. Reasonable train of thought perhaps, but purely guesswork. However, having done my first session with the airbrush yesterday and then stared at the model all day today, I am not happy with the way it looks. It seems much too dark a base colour compared to every other Mikasa model I can find on the web. Can someone enlighten me? (bad pun, I know!). Should Mikasa really be as dark as Sasebo grey? I know the WEM colours are 'real' and not scale colours, so will appear darker than the ship would from a scale distance, and I also know that by the time I weather the hull I will end up lightening it a bit, but short of extensive dry brushing (which if I am not careful will make it look 'sugar coated'), I don't think I am going to be able to get it anywhere near the tone everyone else seems to have used. Can someone tell me the colours I should be using for Mikasa at Tsushima in 1905, or confirm that what I have done so far is correct and every other model I have seen is much too light? Secondly, on the painting guide on the rear of the box the boat deck is shown as a lighter grey than the rest of the hull and other decks. Anyone suggest what I should be using for this grey? Again, other models I have seen seem to use the same grey all over. Apologies for the length of this question, but I am sure you understand the self doubt, and lack of confidence in a colour scheme, when it doesn't quite come out the way you imagined it! If anyone out there has the definitive answer on Mikasa's Tsushima colours I am sure I will not be the only one who will be grateful! Thanks in advance, Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: wind jamer plan service Wind Jamer arts plans and service up in Washingtion state. VERY GOOD PLAN SERVICE!! I have use them many times and have been treated good cant complan about any thing, Worth the time to get intouch with them if you looking for plans good drawings and prices, Don That Portland Rustbucket ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Me And My Shadow (hull numbers) The USN hull numbers would be white on main upper letter/figure with a black shadow shifted to right and down a bit (please don't ask which scale black shade-LOL!). This scheme is same on both sides of ship--black shadow always appears to right of white letter/figure and angles down. Keep in mind that I am using huge notebooks filled with color slide transparencies and am referencing samples culled from 1980s with standard black/white lettering and gray 'ghosted camo' font schemes (ie. later ships of early 1980s-1990s with advent of desert wars, etc.) Go about 10-15% gray on main letter and about 20% on the shadowing and nudge the shades from there depending on your printer's quirks. I'm pretty sure the schemes remain the same today, but my arms are sore from lifting those beastly books and the old man is getting lazy! You might check with Floating Drydock to see if they stock lettering plans showing measurements of naval ship's hull numbers--my files only contain USCG styling. Which reminds me of a funny one. I watched this Coastie down on San Diego's Broadway Pier one day painting the 378' cutter's anchors. He must have taken a huge wallop of regulation paint fumes because when it came time to apply the "U.S. COAST GUARD" lettering on the hull from die-cut adhesive transfers, he was running all over the dock looking for extra lettering sheets, because, "somebody forgot to include the 'L'" (!) Victor Baca Model Ship Journal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Doin' The Math To paraphrase my dad, "When the bullet (torpedo) with your number on it comes up, it makes no sense to ask, 'why me?'" Go figure... Victor Baca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: raisingirl Subject: the Great Eastern hi all -- An interesting side note on the Great Eastern: the story of Brunel and his great ships was of particular fascination to William Francis Gibbs, the famous naval architect behind the s/s United States. "The Great Iron Ship" by James Dugan (IIRC -- I have a copy of the book but don't have it handy at the moment, and my memory is dimming as I reach my 12th year of being 18), which was about the Great Eastern, was one of his favorite books, and he'd often present copies of that book to distinguished visitors/passengers aboard the Big U. It's interesting that the Great Eastern was launched under the name Leviathan and that the project that put Gibbs Bros. on the map was the reconditioning of the s/s Leviathan. Though the renaming of the ship was not a Gibbs decision, it's another very interesting turn of fate.... jodie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Math Lessons >> Melvin that is why "smart bombs and fly by wire" were developed, to make ballistics more of a science and less of an art. << I always wanted to know if this suggestion is feasible. Tie the nose of one airborne bomb to the tail of the other. The optimal cable length is kept to a minimum by a spool mechanism when the bombs are still attached to the bomb racks. When dropped against a target they will follow one another by 20 feet of cable or whatever is the ideal follow up explosion. If they hit the target they accomplish what all the complicated targeting engineering had been about since the airborne bomb was invented. If they miss the probability is no worse than the latest sophisticated guided bombs. Marginal cost of manufacture equals the cost of the cable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JANICE LEONTI Subject: Great Eastern To all, Anyone who fishes out of Montauk Point, Long Island, New York will know of and have fished on a well known fishing spot called "Great Eastern Rock". This boulder strewn spot lies in 28 to 34 feet of water almost due east of Montauk Point. This is where the ship Great Eastern ripped open her outer hull upon hitting bottom sometime (anyone know the date?) during her short lived and disasterous career. I have it programmed into my GPS and have caught many large Striped Bass there. Capt. Bob Leonti ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: clem Subject: Re: Balkans barge I should think that they would be guns but the photo is pretty clear that they are water cannons [our fire dept calls them deck guns]. It is quite confusing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: andrew jones Subject: Sub questions Hi all..so far had no responses..so ither no one has the answers to my questions..but just in case give it one more go 1) Mirage 1/400 scale U-60...im doing it as the 1940 configuration a) the wire from teh bow..some line drawing show the wire coming from the bow net cutters yet on others it shows the wire coming from a bit underneath of the net cutter..guess this is no biggy seeing that 1 mm is not going to make a difference b) the safety rails.. shome line drawings show the guard rails only around the gun & other show the rails completely around the sub??? is the gun only version when the ship was in combat conditions & the full version when the ship was near base or in safe area of operations?? c) u-60 did it have the seal with a top hat emblem?? & the periscope.. the box art shows a different style of periscope than what is on the kit? the rear periscope is the Attack scope right?? The Fine Molds 1/72 Jap Midget sub a) only one of the line drawings of the instruction sheet show a torpedo & prop guard on the sub? did all the subs for the Pearl Harbour have the prop & torpedo guards or what?? IS the reason why the guards are not shown is that they wanted to help with teh positioning more of these items??? Thanks in Advance Andrew Jones OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Norman Samish" Subject: Use of an 18" gun for anti-aircraft >> In HMAS Shropshire, in the Pacific War when attacked by the Japanese Kamikaze aircraft, we certainly used our main 8 inch armament, ie, 8 by 8 inch guns in 4 twin turrets. Using High Explosive shells set to explode at about a range of 2,500 yards and controlled by radar, we used to blast off a salvo at the incoming Kamikaze planes. And quite a deterrent it proved to be. << Thanks for the replies - it's always a pleasure to tap the expertise that's available among the SMMLies. The information I get makes models that much more enjoyable. The Shropshire's use of 8" guns as AA reminds me of a story I heard about the Yamato/Musashi 18" AA shells. A site says, "The Musashi is known to have fired her guns in anger only once when she fired a 'sankaidan' (incendiary shrapnel) anti-aircraft shell during the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea. As was feared by the designers, firing the shell disabled the gun." A search revealed no more information about this. Is there any more information about the "'sankaidan' (incendiary shrapnel) anti-aircraft shell", its effectiveness at the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, and why firing it disabled the gun? Thanks, Norm Samish ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: More Potemkin-Info Requests Hi Tom, >> 4. Color of funnels? In his article, Falk expresses uncertainty. My references and his say yellow, but he thinks possibly white from photos. In my experience "reading" photos from WW I, it can be dangerous to guess red and yellow from photographs of the period, due to the emulsion sensitivities of the two major types of film used. I don't know about film in Odessa ten years earlier. I sure would like yellow (it would look good!), but if so those funnels should look darker in the photos. << Just to muddy the waters further on the subject of color/tonal rendition by blue-sensitive and orthochromatic emulsions, my extensive research on the subject some years ago revealed that late-19th/early-20th century photographers were well aware of the use of colored filters to alter the tones to be achieved in the final prints, so.... Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Michael D'Silva" Subject: RMS Mauretania Colour Scheme Does anyone know the appropriate colour scheme for the RMS Mauretania? I am about to start building the Airfix 1:600 RMS Mauretania, and the suggested colour scheme leaves a lot to be desired. Most of the suggested colours are in gloss enamels. I plan to airbrush as much as possible and then pick out tiny details such as deck fittings, etc, by hand. For airbrushing, I prefer to use Gunze Sangyo or Tamiya acrylics. For hand brushing, I use Humbrol enamels. Apart from the standard Flat Black for the hull, Flat white for most of the superstructure, and Copper for the propellers, what other colours do I need? Decks? Hull below waterline? Etc.? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks, Michael D'Silva Scoresby, Victoria, Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Daily Math lesson: diameter of torpedo is irrelevant It's the size of the hole blown by torpedo explosion that counts. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: darren Subject: SMMLiecon attendees list Still a couple haven't confirmed. Are we sleeping out there? Not many interested in HAIDA visit, so I may not bother unless I hear from a few more indivuals that want to go. AND we got a few new fishy's coming! Send me note if you haven't already! As of today, the list of attendees looks like this: James Kloek Darren Scannell Rick Biesik John Rule (Yup, definately going to try and run the border) Jeff Hughes (a definate maybe) Bradford Chaucer (confirmed!) Art Herrick David Gregory David Sepos (confirmed!) Jeff Fenton (maybe not?) Ted Paris Jon Warneke James Corley Dave Judy Bruce Buchner (new one!) Ken Gray ('nother new one!) Charlie parker (and another new one!) IF your name is spelled wrong, or you wish to add it to the list (or be removed), please let me know. The date is rapidly approaching and it will be a fun weekend! There will be at least one get together, a meeting of the um, minds, and a surprise or two. There won't be much cost over and above the show and accommodation, so come on down! All who let me know in advance will get a spiffy name tag, designed by myself! Hope to see you there! Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Buffalo SMMLcon Under two weeks to go! Here is how things are shaping up. At the moment, there has not been a lot of interest expressed in seeing the Haida on Friday afternoon. If you want to give that a try, now is the time to speak up. Otherwise we will probably not make the trip. Friday night we will be organizing a group dinner, and who knows what afterward, but I keep hearing not so vague references to single malt whiskey and a video camera. Saturday morning at 10 there will be a one hour seminar on ship building as part of Noreastcon. Right now the speakers will be Jon Warnecke, Darren, and me, although I would gladly step aside for a willing volunteer. We will head over to the Naval Park right after lunch ( I will try to negotiate around 1 PM) so we can be touring the ships while the contest judging is taking place. Saturday night, some of us will be attending the Noreastcon banquet, and probably others will be out on their own. Darren and I plan to be there Friday afternoon, to get first shot at the vendors, errr......I mean be sure to be there to welcome any early arriving SMMLies. We will have a table in the Noreastcon welcome area, and as Darren has promised we will have name tags and other goodies for us SMMLies. But we can only have that ready if we know you are coming, so if your name is not on the list Darren posted recently, let one of us know. My email is: jkloek1@rochester.rr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "JAG Collective, Inc." Subject: Unrep ships Terry, JAG will be releasing a 1/700 Sacramento (early version) at IPMS Nats in OK City in July. Price--TBD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Orizzonte Mare' Book For Sale Hi All, If anyone is looking for these, I have one of the excellent Orizzonte Mare books for sale on eBay. It's the volume on the Trento class cruisers. Here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41900&item=3515064556&rd=1 Thanks, Mike Bartel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chris" Subject: Tamiya & Dragon 1/350 kit for sale in Australia Hi All, I have the following for sale in Australia. Prices are in Australian Dollars and do not include post. Dragon 1/350 Spruance (VLS) $30 Tamiya 1/350 KGV $60 Thanks, Chris Evenden Canberra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume