Subject: SMML VOL 2175 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:14:29 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Nautilus SS168 2: Re: U60 3: Re: More on Great Eastern 4: Re: Sub Models 5: Re: USS Nautilus kit 6: Re: Doin' The Math 7: Re: Potemkin Questions 8: USS Inchon LPH 12 9: Live animals at sea 10: Re: Great Eastern 11: Thanks to Victor and Franklyn again 12: Re: Sub questions 13: Cutter Campbell 14: Re: RMS Mauretania Colour Scheme -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New book on small WW2 USN ships ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Bob Patmore Subject: USS Nautilus SS168 A 1/350 scale resin kit is available from Iron Shipwright for $70 US.. It is a nicely cast model out of the box. Deck guns on WWII subs are prominent features so I like to make them as detailed as possible. The Nautilus had 6"/53 deck guns and I have not found enough information to make a good representation. There are some good pictures available but my search for plans have failed. It should make into an impressive model. Good luck. Bob Patmore ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: joe.sus Subject: Re: U60 Most of the safety railings were lines attached to dismountable uprights, as you surmised. The forward wire mounted in one of several locations: without the net cutter, it would be attached to the top of the ring on the nose. With the net cutter, it could be attached to the top rear of the cutter mounting (there was a hole there where it could be bolted on) or to an attachment point on the deck a couple of feet aft of the nose ring. I've got photos of several type IIs in port, and one can see all these variations in a single photo. I highly recommend the photoetch sheet for this kit. If you contact me offlist on Wednesday, I'll suggest other fixes to the kit, if you want. I'll see if I can come up with a 1940 photo for the markings. Joe Suszynski ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: More on Great Eastern >> Anyone who fishes out of Montauk Point, Long Island, New York will know of and have fished on a well known fishing spot called "Great Eastern Rock". This boulder strewn spot lies in 28 to 34 feet of water almost due east of Montauk Point. This is where the ship Great Eastern ripped open her outer hull upon hitting bottom sometime (anyone know the date?) during her short lived and disasterous career. I have it programmed into my GPS and have caught many large Striped Bass there. << The date in question was August 27th, 1862. Very few passengers were aware of the grounding and slept right through the incident. It was her double plating that saved her as when a diver examined the hull he found a hole 83ft long by 9ft wide. Repairing the ship was a saga in itself. The American Civil War was raging and steel was in short supply. Moreover there was no dry dock large enough to accomodate the enormous hull and, being a flat bottomed ship, the GE could not be careened had it been possible to run her ashore. Yankee ingenuity in the form of Edward Renwick and his brother Henry came to the rescue and proposed that a cofferdam be built to cover the hole while new plates shaped to the curve of the age's hull were manufactured. They proposed to do this at no charge if unsuccessful. After a few problems they were able to get a cofferdam in place and eventually the steel they needed to complete the repair. They eventually charged the GE's owners $350,000. The ship sailed for home in early January, 1863 with 1,200 passengers and a cargo of wheat. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100 Subject: Re: Sub Models >> I live on Mutiny Bay, Whidbey Island, Washington, and have a great view to the west and all the submarine traffic that comes and goes from Hood Canal (lately shadowed by a Typhoon Class Patrol Coastal) I have looked for a model of these boomers and haven't found anything. Any chance you could suggest something. Is it a Los Angeles class boat I'm watching? << You are seeing Ohio class SSBNs. These are stationed at Keyport, Wa., and use the Hood Canal to transit to sea. From time to time, you may also see a transient SSN (Los Angeles class) and maybe the only remaining Sturgeon, USS Parche (a bit odd looking, and we won't talk about what she is doing....). Kits: 1:350 styrene of the Los Angeles and Ohio are available from Dragon. The Ohio is passable, the Hampton kit needs a lot of work. I recently wrote a big article on correcting it for the magazine, the SubCommittee Report. The Dallas kit has the same problems. In resin, Blue Water Navy makes both an LA and Ohio in 1:350 scale. If you want humongous, Don Preul makes an Ohio in 1:192 scale. I have it; it's big & beautiful!! he is also making a Los Angeles- last time we spoke, he was adding the anechoic tiles INDIVIDUALLY to the hull master. I have a ton of research material, if you are interested. Contact me offline. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ives100 Subject: Re: USS Nautilus kit BTW, I have close up photos of the 6 inch guns from the USS Nautilus' sister submarine, the USS Narwhal. They are installed on the grounds of the US Navy New London Submarine Base in Groton, CT (Yeah, I know, the New London sub base in Groton??) In case anyone needs some reference material for the ISW kit. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Doin' The Math >> To paraphrase my dad, "When the bullet (torpedo) with your number on it comes up, it makes no sense to ask, 'why me?'" Go figure... << When I was in the Tonkin Gulf, it was never the bullet/shell/torpedo/missile with my name or number on it that bothered me...it was the one marked "To Whom It May Concern...." Cheers, John Snyder USS BAINBRIDGE (DLGN-25), 1966-70 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Vladimir Yakubov" Subject: Re: Potemkin Questions >> 1. What colors were the various boats? << All of the boats are white. The steam boats had red hull below the waterline. >> 2. One of the powered launches is special- it appears to have a ram-style bow and a tube (in the kit and in the reference sent by Vladimir) at the bow. Is this a little torpedo boat? How interesting! << Yes that was a torpedo boat. It was a left over from the 1890s when it was thought that these could be used to attack enemy ships at anchor and in the harbors. >> 4. Color of funnels? << I've found the rest of the article that goes with the plans that I sent you. Here is a color scheme given in it (Disclaimer: the article comes form a Modelist-Konstructor magazine November 1985 issue, when it was not known for its accuracy, so use it at your own risk): Black - Hull above waterline, 2/3rds of the splinter shileding on top of the casemates, Turrets and main guns, funnel tops (it also says that the little ledge in the middle of the funnels was also black, but looking at the photos I'm not sure), tiedown devices (forgot what they are called but they are the things that the ropes that tie the ship to the pier get tied to). Red - hull below the waterline, steam boats below the waterline. White - Waterline, boats, railings, bow and stern boat davits,. Straw colored - top 1/3rd of the splinter shield (and splinter shieled completely from the inside), Conning tower, main bridge, funnels, ventilators, Admiral's cabin, radio room, navigator's cabin, cranes, masts, projector platforms, deck structures. >> 5. Torpedo nets were apparently carried at that time in his service. << I've never seen a Potemkin photo with the nets attached (and they were definetly not there in the photo in Rumania on the day that they ship was surrendered), so I think you would be better off living them off Vladimir ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: USS Inchon LPH 12 Hi SMMLies, I had the opportunity to visit my old home of 3.5 years last Friday. First time I been aboard in two months shy of 20 years. she is mothballed in Phily getting ready to be towed out and sunk. I was lucky enough to spend the entire day aboard. Funny how 20 years has come and gone and the second I stepped aboard was as if time was never there. I expected to see the hangerdeck with shipmates passing by and receiving a hard time from the OOD for a haircut or something out of uniform on myself. It was dead silent. Not a sound. I brought along a co-worker who also was navy. We had the run of the ship for the day. This time aboard has given me the opportunity to gather much inf.. on her to aid in a model. What made this trip even more special was we had our ships first ever reunion two weeks ago in TX. I told the guys I was getting aboard. Of course everyone wanted a souvenir from my trip. While aboard I talked of many of them and told my friend lots of sea stories including the three men I knew that were still on the eternal voyage that never made it back to Norfolk. So the point is some of us build ship models because we love to do it. I joined the navy 23.5 years ago because I love ships and ship models. I always wanted to build the Inchon but never really set out to do it. Now my fire has been lit. The Inchon will exist again. Keith ABF-3 80-83 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Live animals at sea Well, I guess it's time to exercise SMML's cerebral capacities again. Here goes!! From time to time we read about live animals being taken to sea for a variety of reasons (fresh eggs, fresh milk, fresh meat, etc., for a while, at least, or being transported to a new shore location, either commercially or to help stock a new settlement, ship's mascots, etc.). Question: Do (or did) such animals get seasick? Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "R N Pearson" Subject: Re: Great Eastern >> The Great Eastern hit Great Eastern Rock on August 28, 1862 << Boy, imagine the coincidence there....... Regards, Bob Pearson Flower Class Corvettes http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/Flower/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Lawman555 Subject: Thanks to Victor and Franklyn again Once again you two have come through. The issue of the shadow on the hull numbers is not a major controversy; but I really wanted my model to at least be as correct as possible. Thanks to you and the other SMML's that have helped with these mundane questions, I am well on my way. Now if I can convince my wife that I need more time to finish her...........Well, you know Thanks again Jim Myers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Rui Francisco Matos" Subject: Re: Sub questions Hi Andrew, I can only help you with the FineMolds Ko-Hyoteki Japanese Midget Sub: >> a) only one of the line drawings of the instruction sheet show a torpedo & prop guard on the sub? << Because only one of the versions that you can make out of that model uses those. Throught the war, there where several different torpedo guards, conning tower net cutters and propeler guards schemes. In a short period (Pearl Harbour and Sidney attacks) two completely arrangements where used. By the end of 43 no more of those where used, since the main "targets" for them, where no longer protected harbours. >> did all the subs for the Pearl Harbour have the prop & torpedo guards or what?? << As far as I know of, all the five Ko-Hyoteki subs on 6-7 December 41 where of the "8 figure" torpedo guard and the single circled propeller guard. >> IS the reason why the guards are not shown is that they wanted to help with teh positioning more of these items??? << (see first answer). Hope this helped Regards from Lisbon, Portugal Rui Matos (aka Skipper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: mmaynard3 Subject: Cutter Campbell To Dave Shirlaw I did tours on both cutters named "Campbell"(was a Plank owner on the 909) and I don't recall anyone on the ship painting the word "soup" on the stern. We did however have a flag from the Campbell soup division of General Foods(?) that was flown during un rep with other vessels while the YN1 played "The Campbell's are coming" on the bagpipes. Made for an interesting high line evolution. As for painting things un authorized on ship hulls we were guilty of painting "FOR SALE" in white on big gray Navy ships in Mayport and Little Creek, usually on their stern. I understand they got a few offers from other Navy ships... Mike Maynard USCG (Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Michael D'Silva" Subject: Re: RMS Mauretania Colour Scheme Hi Randy, Many thanks for your posting. I plan to depict her in her early years; I should have been a little more specific in my original posting. I wonder if anyone out there has built a model of her and would have an exact colour reference matched to a Humbrol or other paint chart? Your suggestions on colours for the deck, masts, vent interiors and lower hull sound good. The other thing I'm not clear on is what colour the deck houses between nos. 2, 3 and 4 funnel on the boat deck were painted. Perhaps the photos/scans you have will answer that. And a few other questions Im sure. I would be most grateful to have a copy if you're willing to send them. My e-mail address is mdsilva@mira.net If e-mail isn't an option, contact me and Ill send you my postal address. Once again, many thanks, Michael D'Silva Scoresby, Victoria, Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WVeigele Subject: New book on small WW2 USN ships For a new book about small USN ships of WWII, with photos of and plans for models, see www.astralpublishing.com/seabag.html Thank you. Wm. J. Veigele ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume