Subject: SMML VOL 2192 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:09:05 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Bismark Decks 2: P.A. Webb RAN Ship Drawings 3: Re: Bismarck Decks 4: Re: power and speed 5: First with Electric Lights 6: USS KIDD pirate decal 7: P.A. Webb Plans: HMS Exeter 8: Re: Power vs. speed ratios 9: Arizona colors 10: Creating a Revised WW2 BB 11: USS Kidd (DD-661) Pirate Image 12: Letter sizes 13: Naval Historical Center & National Archives -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Kits for trade ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Bismark Decks >> the FineArts model at http://www.fineartmodels.com/bismarck_0000_thumbs.htm as a reference. A friend suggested I research more to find out if the Fine Arts model is accurate when it comes to planked wooden decking, << That is one gorgeous model. It looks like the whole superstructure and fittings have been given a fine wash or misting of "rust." This gives it a slightly weathered look plus a play of light and shadows to give it lots of depth. Even in close up it looks almost the real ship. How is that "rust" effect achieved? Ditto the deck colouring to detail the plankworks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "GRAHAM WALKER" Subject: P.A. Webb RAN Ship Drawings here is the web address for these plans quite alot more than you may believe http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=105703894 all the best graham @ the cruiser sig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Stephen Varhegyi" Subject: Re: Bismarck Decks Here are some artwork impressions of Bismarck during the Denmarck Strait battle. www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/paint_schemes/paintbism1941rheinubung.html Also try www.kbismarck.com/operheini.html Regards Steve Varhegyi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CokerRE Subject: Re: power and speed In all of the comments about speed of ships and power requirements the one about ships trying to lift themselves out of the water at speed seemed to have contradictions. I am not a naval architect or marine engineer but over many years I have noticed in photos of the Bismarck and Littorio class battleships at speed, they always seemed noticeably down at the bow--almost as if their propellers were lifting the sterns somewhat. This is particularly true of the Bismarck in the battle with the Hood and Tirpitz on her trials. I have even seen photos of US battleships at high speed with the same phenomenon. PC Coker/Charleston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Edwparent Subject: First with Electric Lights Here is a fun quiz for SMML Members: What was the name and date of maiden voyage of the first passenger vessel completely equipped with Edison's new electric light bulbs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: BSteinIPMS Subject: USS KIDD pirate decal >> Does anyone make a decal for the Capt. Kidd image painted on the stack to the USS Kidd (DD-661)? Ideally, I want 1/125 (yeah, I'm gonna do a "Blue Devil" conversion), but anything that comes close will do. alternatively, does anyone know of a clear pic of it on the web that I can use to create a decal or transfer? << Steve: Look into the Web site for the KIDD at http://www.usskidd.com for photos and drawings of the infamous pirate captain Kidd. For my own model I drew a sketch at four times the size needed, reduced it on a photocopier, then printed it on a sheet of clear decal paper. It was a simple matter to hand paint the image using the lines as a guide, much like "paint by number". A clear overcoat of Testors Dull-Cote sealed the image, which was then applied as a normal waterslide decal. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: maeisen Subject: P.A. Webb Plans: HMS Exeter Folks: First, thanks to all who responded to my query about the P.A. Webb series of ships plans and drawings. Now, a new question. I noticed that in the series of small P.A. Webb ship drawings that Hylands Bookstore sells, they have a listing for HMS Exeter. Does anyone know the date/fit that the drawing portrays? I've been looking for info regarding her fit in 1941/42 (at the time of her loss) without success, so my hopes have been raised a bit by this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Mike E ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Power vs. speed ratios Please allow me to submit some information about power vs. speed for some smaller vessels, the 110 Ft. W W 1 Submarine Chasers (natch). They were designed in 1917 having long, slender, and graceful hulls, with a length of 110 feet and a beam of just under 15 feet. Reminiscent of the whaleboats of the mid 19th century, the chasers' bows were quite sharp and the bottoms were well rounded. They were equipped with three 220 HP engines, but generally only two were used for cruising. Although the numerical values my sources vary slightly, they cluster around the following values: Using two engines I Using three engines (440 HP total) I (660 HP total) 13 knots max I 16 knots max (9 knots. using one engine) I I 1000 mile range I 650 mile range Full power, 24 hours 14 knots max I 15.5 knots max I 56 gals. fuel/hr I 84 gals. fuel/hr I 9 knots max (one engine) I -------------------- 28 gals. fuel/hr I A comment repeated in the data notes that maximum speed using three engines was generally less the two knots greater than the maximum speed using two engines. Individual boats may have had values that varied slightly from the above, and displaced weight, loading distribution, effects of marine growth on the hull, sea conditions, etc., would contribute to variations. The Chief Engineer of one chaser reported that when one of his engines became badly damaged the decision was made to remove it entirely for major repairs. Subsequent speed trials with the boat lightened by the engine removal, the corresponding propeller removed (to cut down on hydraulic drag), and the use of slightly larger remaining propellers revealed no reduction of maximum speed (as had been obtained when using three engines) and about one-third improvement in fuel consumption. Go figure. The repaired engine was later reinstalled as it was deemed imprudent to put to sea and enter combat with only two engines, loss of one engine would seriously compromise the chaser's sea worthiness and overall integrity. For comparison purposes, the W W 2 version of the chaser was the same length, about three feet wider, and was heavier. It had only two engines. For production reasons, two different designs of engines were used. The chasers with 800 HP (total) produced 15.6 knots max., whereas those with 1549 HP (total) produced only 21 knots max. Although the power was almost doubled, the maximum speed was only some 35% greater. And with more than twice the horsepower of the W W 1 boats, the average maximum speed was only about 31% greater. Playing around with these figures led me to wonder about the effect of the "step" on the bottoms of the floats and on the hulls of some seaplanes. And how about hydroplanes? Any comments, SMML? Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bob Patmore Subject: Arizona colors I would like to add some information to my original message and to support Steves findings on the color scheme on Arizona on Dec.7, 41 On January 1941 camouflage instructions were published and referred to as SHIPS 2. Measures 1 through 8 where specified. Measure 1 known as the Dark Gray System specified that vertical surfaces above the top of the stacks be Lt Gray 5-L,vertical surfaces below these areas would be Dark Gray 5-D, Horizontal surfaces with the exception of wood decks would be Dark Gray 5-D. Wood decks shall not be darkened pending further instructions. Natural Teak! In September 1941 a second edition of SHIPS 2 was issued which replaced the January 1941 hand book in its entirety. Measures 1 through 8 were discontinued. These Measures were replaced by Measures 11 through 14. Measure 14 known as the Ocean Gray System specified vertical surfaces from the boot topping to the superstructure masses be Ocean Gray 5-O, and pole masts, yards, slender upper works to the top of the superstructure masses Haze Gray 5-H. All horizontal surfaces to be Deck Blue 20-B. There is a note that wood decks would be maintained in natural color till the outbreak of war. OK back to the Arizona. The Arizona was in Dry Dock on October 27 to October 31 1941 for repairs because of a collision with Oklahoma on the 22. The Oklahoma hit the Arizona on the port side leaving a 4 foot wide and 21 foot long hole. We have 2 month period of time between the September directive and the dry-dock work and the repainting of the ship. With this in mind why would the ship be painted contrary to the latest specification? The big question is what the actual hue or paint color is! Using 5-O I found three sources that pretty well agree that FS 35164 is the color. 20-B pretty well checked with FS 35045. There is nothing like finishing a model and you find a week later from a new incontrovertible source the particular aircraft or ship should be in paint Scheme A instead of Scheme B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Creating a Revised WW2 BB Has anyone ever done surgery on or performed homemade SHIPALTs to a WW2 BB? What I mean is, has anyone (for instance) added a 4th main battery turret to a 3-turreted BB, or added a 4th barrel to a 3-barrel turret, or added more catapaults and cranes, or maybe increased the secondary battery and added radars even where none previously existed, or all of the above? Ever think that you are the "Grand Naval Architect of the Universe" and able to re-design and up-fit KGV, Bismarck, Iowa, Jean Bart, or Roma, etc. Or use a SWATH hull? Could make for some interesting designs. Gene Katz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Joel Labow Subject: USS Kidd (DD-661) Pirate Image Steve, The Floating Drydock publication Warship's Data 1 - USS Kidd (DD-661) has a good print of the image. Contact me off list if you can't find a copy. Best regards, Joel Labow ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Letter sizes Hi SMMLies, Here's one not often asked. How tall in inches are the letters on the stern of our battleships? The draft numbers and names are usually 1/2" thick steel plate cut to their shape. I know some of the DD's had only six inch tall letters but I need to know about the BB's. Thank you, Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper Subject: Naval Historical Center & National Archives I received a private e-mail from one of the SMML's, namely Bradford Chaucer, so I thought I would answer his questions in public on the SMML to benefit any others who would wish to learn about these two locations. US Naval Historical Center. This facility is located in the Washington Navy Yard. You must call the still photo branch prior to visiting and give them your name, address and social security number for US citizens. Here is the web site address to gain access to the center; http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html This must be done at least 30 days prior to visiting. You have to get onto the yard at the side gate, located at 11th and "O" Street. You cannot park in the yard and the area surrounding the yard is really a bad neighborhood. I know. A person made the mistake of trying to mug me. I left him laying on the side walk. I recommend taking the Metro and getting off at the Eastern Market stop. Walk 12 blocks down 8th Street to the main gate at 8th & "M" Street, turn left, walk to "O", turn right, walk down hill to the side gate at "O" and 11th. About a 15 block walk total. The guards will tell you to check in at the visitor trailer and get your pass. Get a map of the yard and walk about four more blocks to the US Naval Historical Center, located in Building 57. Once inside, find the Still Photo Branch upstairs and check in. You are allowed to bring in your own laptop computer and scanner and scan to your hearts content. This facility has about 150,000 photos. Hours are 9AM to 5PM. US National Archives - Archives II This facility houses the main collection of historic USN photo collections, about 2 million photos. They can be reached on the web; http://www.nara.gov They are located in College Park, MD, inside the "Beltway". Find the map online. Parking is allowed on site and this is a very good neighborhood, so no worries. You will have to check in and be registered as a researcher. As with the above mentioned facility, laptops and scanners are allowed. Still photos are located on the 5th floor. Tell the assistants what you are looking for and they will steer you in the right direction. Remember, as with the above, the research is up to you. My motto is "Leave no stone unturned". Think of every way you could look up one particular ship. Under it's name, hull number, actions, ship yards, personnel, damage reports, etc, etc. Do your own research before traveling to either location. This is a huge help. The other question from Bradford was what type of scanner do I use. I bought a Cannon because it is very thin and fits well with my laptop in a single briefcase. That is very good for traveling. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ZNWOOD@aol.com Subject: Kits for trade greetings I have a large number of 1/35 scale kits mostly second world war german,russian and american but some other nationalities as well. I have a mix of tanks anti tank guns artillery and figures from Dragon, tamiya, verlinden Etc, I'd like to trade for 1/700 scale kits the list is too long to list here but if you'd like a list contact me offline at znwood@aol.com good day zachary wood ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume