Subject: SMML VOL 2194 Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:52:32 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Kombrig's 1/700 "Imp. Alekander III" 2: Re: P.A. Webb RAN Ship Drawings 3: Re: First with Electric Lights 4: Kevin at Fleetline 5: Re: Camouflage of Italian CA FIUME 6: 1/600 new ship?? 7: Re: Arizona Colors, sort of 8: Revised WW2 BBs 9: Re: Creating a Revised WW2 BB 10: Re: P.A. Webb Plans: HMS Exeter 11: Shell Welder 12: Camouflage of Italian CA FIUME 13: Pearl Harbor Battleship Colors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New 1/350 Essex PE sets from GMM now available 2: Two new books 3: Loose Cannon LCI(L) 1-350 U.S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Kombrig's 1/700 "Imp. Alekander III" Once again the hull is beautifully casted and, mostly, correct in shape (even the number and location of the portholes is right for "Imp. Aleksander III") And once again it is almost spot on in width and 3.0mm too short. The anchor beds are correct but, once more, there is a skylight between anchor beds which wasn't present in a real ship. The base of the forward bridge is almost correct with the exception of the front wall which was concave and not straight (as in the kit). Main bridge: the conning tower platform is mostly correct in shape (look above) but (as with "Slava") the solid bulwark should be removed and replaced with two bar railings. The charthouse patform is incorrect in shape. It should have been almost rectangular with much narrower bridge wings with their rear edge do not extending to the rear end of the platform. Charthouse is slightly too long. It shouldn't extend beyond the mast locating hole. It is important because there was another cabin at the rear end of the platform with a space with double stairway between it and the charthouse. Rear bridge is mostly correct with a couple of exceptions. Even the upper plaform and raised compass is provided in this kit. Midship superstucture....exactly the same story as with "Slava". You can't assemble it correctly using instructions and parts provided in the kit.... When I was examining "Slava" I noticed that midship's part of the superstructure did not have much to do with the reality but I thought that Kombrig decided on compromise and simplification. After all "Borodinos" were such a complicated ships and since most of the structure would not be visible anyway (ship's boats obscure the view quite effectively), who would care or even know??? Now, however, I begin to wonder if Kombrig's designers really knew how superstructures of "Borodinos" looked like.... Because if they followed the real thing all (or most) of the assembly fiascos would have been avoided. Unlike "Borodino" and "Orel", "Suvorov", "Aleksander III" and "Slava" had their main superstructure divided into 4 separate groups: 1st extended from the main bridge base and incorporated forward funnel base; 2nd was a rectangular structure located between (but NOT connected to) funnels bases. It was on this structure that the distinctive raised compass platform was mounted; 3rd was the second funnel base and 4th was quite a substantial vent located some distance behind the second funnel base. Now does that sound like a lot of additional hassle, time or expense for a producer as opposed to additonal hassle, time and frustration for the kit builder??? Regards Darius Przezdziecki ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "graham" Subject: Re: P.A. Webb RAN Ship Drawings Yes he did HMAS Australia 1947 HMAS Canberra 1940 HMAS Shropshire 1945 All these where in A3 but are quite good He had in his 1983 catalogue up date HMS London 1941 HMS Norfolk 1944 (I really wanted this one) again both A3 or 40ft =1 inch But these where never issued or I never got them His catalogue had a HMAS Canberra 1940 in Scale 1/16" (1/192) "Kent class heavy cruiser shown as in 1940 Folio packed three sheets depicting inboard and outboard profiled deck layouts and full hull lines" I never got this but did get some of his American CA drawing they where very good and would have enough information to make it in this scale it would be a labour of love beyond my skills ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: First with Electric Lights >> Here is a fun quiz for SMML Members: What was the name and date of maiden voyage of the first passenger vessel completely equipped with Edison's new electric light bulbs? << Don't know, however to come back at you, what was the first ship designed form it's inception to utilize electrical equipment, including electric lights?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: maeisen Subject: Kevin at Fleetline Kevin: Thanks for the Webb plans Exeter info. Best wishes, Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: Camouflage of Italian CA FIUME >> Shortly before her loss in 1941, the cruiser FIUME was camouflaged. I am looking for a drawing of the pattern so that I can do a paint job on a model of the ship. Can anyone help me here? << Paul, The paint scheme for the Fiume is in the instructions from the 1/400 Tauro kit of that ship. Those instructions are accurate, as the information to make them and the kits was from the IRN Historical Society. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "GRAHAM WALKER" Subject: 1/600 new ship?? French Carrier C DE GAULLE 1/600 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3131380742&category=4248 Makers name not mentioned just thought I would let you 1/600 ers know graham @ the cruiser sig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: billkaja Subject: Re: Arizona Colors, sort of >> We have 2 month period of time between the September directive and the dry-dock work and the repainting of the ship. With this in mind why would the ship be painted contrary to the latest specification? << I'm not entering the discussion about what color the ship was per, se, but I do want to make one point.... Just because a ship is in drydock, doesn't mean she'd get completely repainted in a new color scheme. Yard periods and drydock time are usually tightly scheduled, and there may not have been time or budget to complete everything on the list. Now, I wasn't around Pearl (or anywhere else for that matter) in 1941, but I have had experience with USCG and USN ships in the 1980s. When a ship goes into a yard period, the worklist is ALWAYS longer than the allotted time and budget. It is up to the folks managing the job to prioritize the work and resources in order to get the most done in the alloted time. Now, an unscheduled drydocking, for an emergency repair, will have an even tighter schedule- you're probably stealing time from some other ship's scheduled time. Also, it is not uncommon for headquarters to publish a new order when the stocks to comply are not yet in the supply system. My experience with this sort of thing is that an order such as this will usually include a directive to complete the work by some date in the future-- you can't expect the order to be carried out overnight. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Revised WW2 BBs For model purposes, it's possible to rebuild any model and see what a revision would have looked like (i.e. a fourth turret on the Iowa, a three-turreted Richelieu, etc.). It's fascinating, to be sure. Of course, none of these conversions would have been realistically possible. That is what redesigning is for. That is why the Montana class was designed and why the Alsace class would have followed the four Richelieu class ships. They were enlarged designs that not only corrected the shortcomings of the previous ships, they also made it possible for all that extra weight and bulk to be carried effectively. You have to take into account the weight and size of more guns and structure, and increased fuel supplies, engine power, ammunition space and storage, and many other things, while still having a design buildable within the constraints of your own shipyards and industrial-economic complex, not to mention any docking restrictions. If you want to add more main turrets, you have to enlarge and strengthen the hull to achieve the extra bouyancy and stability required for the extra weight and shock of firing more guns. When you add something, something else must be landed. Example- all those ships that lost their spotter aircraft and associated gear (catapults, etc.) for more AA guns later in WW2. It was partially a requirement for space, but also of weight in many cases. It's an acute problem, especially on smaller ships. For larger ships, look at the projected reconstruction of the Gneisenau in 1942. To give the ship 15" guns, the bow would have had to be lengthened for extra bouyancy. This work was begun, but not completed, and the whole bow was cut off the ship in order to carry out this work. By the way, the Montana class ships were NOT just 'Iowas with a fourth turret'. Here again is a good example of what I am talking about. The Iowa class ships were fast battle ships, with a balance of armour, speed and armament, designed to escort the Essex-class fast carriers. The Montana class ships were designed as true line-of-battle ships, with the underwater protection, armament and armor protection that the Iowas did not have. They needed a much larger hull (with a different hull form) and sacrificed speed to attain these characteristics. You could not build an Iowa with these features on the Iowas' displacement and expect to attain an effective match for the latest foreign construction of the time. Interestingly enough, a fast battle ship with four triple 16" turrets was part of the Iowa development progression, so an Iowa with four turrets isn't out of the realm of incredulity. Mike Bartel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "dennis irwin" Subject: Re: Creating a Revised WW2 BB A very interesting book to look into about this is Norman Freedmans An Illustrated Design History of United States Battleships. It goes into detail the design history of each class and much of what you mentioned is in there. It is interesting what all had to be considered in the design process. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "graham" Subject: Re: P.A. Webb Plans: HMS Exeter Webbs HMS EXETER Small scale Drawing is as she was 13 December 1939 when she took part in the Battle of the River Plate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Bob Evans" Subject: Shell Welder Reference Jim Bloom's request for info on Shell Welder. My enquiries offered the following: "m.v. Shell Welder (picture attached), Official Number 186210, built 1955, Gross tons 568.88, Net reg tons 202.40, LOA 160 feet, Breadth 29 feet, depth 11'-3", dwt 586, Draft 10'-5", cargo capacity 550 tons in 4 pairs tanks. I believe it was fitted with a diesel engine on a single screw with a boiler and heating coils therefore able to carry fuel oil or white oil products. In service with Shell-Mex and BP Ltd as a coastal products tanker from 1955 until the late 1960's (guesswork). If my memory serves me correctly I believe it was converted thereafter into an aggregate dredger or hopper barge and became the Sand Welder. Not much I'm afraid - bit before the time of all of us! Unfortunately there were no archives in Shell Mex & BP, just a few photographs with very little technical information or history." If Jim would like to contact me directly I would be happy to send him the photo referred to, which is an aerial shot offering quite a bit of detail. Rgds Bob Evans ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Rule" Subject: Camouflage of Italian CA FIUME I believe there is only one very indistinct photo showing Fiume in an experimental camouflage. I have come across any definitive evidence of what the pattern might have been. If you find anything, there are a lot of people who would be interested. Sincerely, John Rule ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Billgior Subject: Pearl Harbor Battleship Colors Dear members Measure 1 (Dark grey system) was taken from (Us Navy Camoufage Handbook C&R-4 -(later named Ships-2) for batteships only. Authorized in January 1941, this consisted of Dark grey (5-D) applied on all vertical surfaces with light grey (5-L) being used on pole mast. This measure was a good all around scheme for clear weather and provided good concealment from the air an surface during the day or night. nearlyall the battleships were using this measure during the pearl harbor attack. This info was copied for me by a very good friend of mine who had this book in his collection. Bill G ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: New 1/350 Essex PE sets from GMM now available Both of Gold Medal Models' new photoetched detail sets for the Trumpeter 1/350 scale Essex are now in stock and shipping today. Set No. 350-22 (The Essex shipset) provides rails, radars, radio masts, elevator girders, mast details, floater net baskets, LSO platform & nets, and much more. Set No. 350-22A (the Gold PLUS Essex Extra Details set) goes beyond and provides perforated flight deck catwalks and sub-flight deck galleries, 40mm Bofors armor shields and related details, similar parts for the 5" 38 cal. open mounts and 20mm Oerlikons, arresting gear and barrier fittings, tripod mast braces in early and late versions, replacement boat cranes, accommodation ladders, and much more. This set is intended for use by expert modelers and serious builders entering into competition. Each set is priced at $40.00 plus postage. Both come with highly detailed and fully illustrated instructions, and both feature 3-D relief etching. For more details including links to photos and reviews of these sets, see the Whats' New section of the GMM website: www.goldmm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Two new books Hi all, Two new books now available from Vanwell: No Higher Purpose-The Official Operational History of the Royal Canadian Navy in the Second World War, 1939-1943 Canada $60CDN + shipping US/Int'l $40US + shipping The Ugly Ducklings-Japan’s WWII Liberty Type Standard Ships Canada $33CDN + shipping US/Int'l $22US + shipping Warship Books Special Offers Purchase the newly released IHP kit of HMS Wild Goose and shipping is FREE. Purchase a copy of RN Camo IV and one other title from WR Press and I shall ship both books (or more WR Press titles) for FREE. Raven & Roberts British Battleships of WWII is still on the horizon. Pre-order a copy of that book, and I shall ship it to you FREE. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Hubert Letterly Subject: Loose Cannon LCI(L) 1-350 U.S. The Loose Cannon LCI(L) 1-350 U.S. 1/700 kits are being shipped to Pacific Front Hobbies and Colpar Hobbies at this time. This kit is the early version with the tall square bridge that the U.S. Navy used in all theathers of war. A low bridge British version will be available very soon as well as the craft that had the bow door as built in June 1944. Gunship versions are also being worked on at this time that will enhance any beach head. WEM's Colorcoat Paints with all the greens are a must for this project although a lot of blues and grays were used also. Hugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume