Subject: SMML VOL 2203 Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:36:30 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Exploding Battleship 2: Fiume camouflage posted 3: Turbinia 4: Re: Marine steam turbines 5: Re: Marine steam turbines 6: Re: Marine steam turbines 7: USN CV reactivation 8: Re: Marine Steam Turbines 9: Re: Mauritania 10: Draft figures 11: USS Salem 12: Marine Steam Turbines ("TURBINIA") 13: Panda Burke DDGs 14: Armed Forces face big new cuts, say Tories 15: FIGURES 16: Ship wrecks - 60 Minutes - Aussie version 17: Re: Marine steam turbines 18: Looking for built 1/350 Ticonderoga class ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: ACTSMS show this weekend -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/700 Scharnhorst & Gneisenau 2: More Pre-Owned Books 3: RAN Storm Grey & Pewter deck colour & other news ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Exploding Battleship Hi Keith, >> The other thing, do you remember something called "Exploding Battleship". I believe it came with one of the popular cereals. Corn flakes or something. It consisted of a "submarine" that shot a "torpedo" and when it hit the "battleship" various parts flew off of it. At least that is how I remember it. My mother wouldn't relent and buy whatever it was that I needed to get it. I wonder if I can get one on ebay. << Yep, I had one. Played with it for hours on end, I did.... Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Stefano Subject: Fiume camouflage posted For all those interested, I have posted the instructiosn on Battleships&Knights: go to http://members.xoom.it/stefsap click on Ongoing works click on the Fiume thumbnail. Beware: the page contains 3 instruction sheets for a total of about 6 MB. Hope this can help, regards, Stefano Sappino ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Doug Wilde Subject: Turbinia Franklyn, Turbinia is my next project, after SABLE and WOLVERINE. Parsons already had a successful business making turbines for electrical generation and was looking for a new market. After due consideration marine propulsion seemed a likely choice. Launched 02 August 1894, TURBINIA was 103'9" long on only a 9' beam. Can we say a mean machine? The original single radial flow turbine was replaced with three axial flow turbines "...linked to three shafts, each shaft having three propellers..." Eventually she would reach speeds of 34.5 knots. She was a wet ride. "Officers aboard the warship [she overtook one day] later said that all they saw of TURBINIA was a bow emerging from a huge wave and a flame from the funnel flickering into the air." Apparently they had to repaint the stack after each run because all the paint was burned off. TURBINIA still exists and is on view at the Tyne & Wear Museums in Newcastle upon Tyne. The museum publishes a nice (48 page) booklet that contains a concise history (partially quoted above) as well as photographs. "Turbinia: The Story of Charles Parsons and his Ocean Greyhound" by Ken Smith ISBN 1 85795 077 1 LN 107 And if you have been saving all your Scientific Americans, look in Supplement No. 1121, page 17920 of 26 June 1897. What? Your issues don't go back that far? Doug Wilde ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Tony Mattson" Subject: Re: Marine steam turbines Franklyn asked about the development of marine steam turbines - with specific reference to Turbinia. Here's a starting point: Turbinia was 100ft long, 9ft broad, with a draught of 3ft and a displacement of 44.5 tons. She was fitted with a double-ended water tube boiler working at 210 psi. The first set of machinery consisted of a single radial flow turbine driving a single shaft, which at 2400 rpm developed 960 horse-power. The speed of the boat proved to be much less than hoped for - less than 20 knots. The complication was due to the high rotational speeds of the propellers which caused the phenomenon of cavitation to occur - a phenomenon recognised and named by William Froude. The propellers were spinning at 18,000 rpm, so fast that the water pressure decreased, forming bubbles, a cavity. The power was going into making bubbles instead of pushing the boat. The remedy was to operate at lower rpm with more turbines and propellers. The radial flow turbine was replaced by 3 parallel flow turbines, one high, one intermediate and one low pressure, to reuse the same steam in succession, each driving a separate shaft having 3 triple bladed screws, there being 9 propellers in all. With steam at 157 psi the speed of the central shaft was 2000 rpm and 2230 on the wing shafts. On trial with this new configuration a speed of 34.5 knots was obtained, or about 4 knots more than the fastest destroyers afloat. The results were spectacular, but still nobody was listening. Hence Parsons' appearance at the 1897 Spithead Review held to mark the 60th anniversary of Queen Vic's accession to the throne. With the exception of the brigs every vessel at anchor in the review was fitted with reciprocating engines, but when the last pre-war review was held, 17 years later in July 1914, all the most important ships present were driven by steam turbines. Here are a few web sites with further information on Turbinia, Parsons and the event. http://mcs.open.ac.uk/dac3/OurNavy/turbinia.htm shows some interesting background history and a two frame animation of the 'Turbinia' at speed, taken in 1897 http://www.iaste.com/hall_of_fame/parsons/parsons4.html From the site: >> Charles Parsons had once written, "If you believe in a principle, never damage it with a poor impression. You must go all the way." Just as the review began, as Prince Edward appeared, and the bands struck up the national anthem, Turbinia dashed out from her position and into the passing review. The picket boat dispatched by the Navy to intercept the intruder was nearly sunk by Turbinia's wash. Before any further disciplinary action could be taken, however, Prince Henry of Prussia sent Parsons his congratulations and asked for a return. << Try also: http://www.birrcastleireland.com/new/index.htm This particular web site is based around the lives and achievements of the Parsons family over the last four hundred years. There's a wealth of background info on Turbinia and a transcript of an address by Sir Charles Parson about the development of the steam turbine and its use in Turbinia. Finally, I recall reading a short article on the construction of a scale model of Turbinia, within which the author describes making the steam turbine that powered his model. I think it appeared in one of the issues of Marine Modelling International published early/middle of last year. WWW.traplet.com is the publisher's website. The writer describes how the scale model goes 'over the hump' and accelerates like a small rocket, as the turbine reaches full speed, much like Parsons own experience. Wldn't be much fun at our pond I'm afraid. With our limited space, winding up a model Turbinia wld be rather like firing a Harpoon missile straight at a wall. Many cheers for now Tony Mattson Editor- Mailship Scale Marine Modellers Inc. Auckland ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Marine steam turbines In addition to Lusitania turbines were also installed on her sister Mauretania and there is a famous picture of the Mauretania, soon after completion on the River Tyne in 1907, with Turbinia alongside. Needless to say the revolutionary craft was completely dwarfed by the liner. The first turbine steamer on the North Atlantic was the Allan liner Victorian completed at Belfast in 1905. Her sister Virginian, built by Stephen of Glasgow and completed some three weeks later, had a remarkable career going to Canadian Pacific along with most of the Allan fleet in 1915 and then to the Swedish-American Line in 1920 and named Drottningholm. She was sold to Home Lines in 1945 and renamed Brasil. She was reconstructed in 1951 and again renamed as Homeland. She served under the management of the Hamburg-America Line first on the Hamburg-New York service and then Genoa-New York. She was sold for breaking up in 1955 some 51 years after her launch, an incredible record! Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "bert" Subject: Re: Marine steam turbines FKbrown 90. Turbinia, back in the thirties the actual turbinia was in the science museum in kensington london .U.K. I believe this became the pattern for the C.M.Bs of the Royal Navy circa 1900 until about the late 20s early 30s. This museum was a treasure house of makers models of ships, railway locomotives and engines including the turbine, many of which operated under compressed air to show the motion. Also there; was the wright brothers airplane, but this was returned to the U.S. after the end of the WW2. Anyone living in or near london may be able to confirm whether these still exist, or have they all been overtaken by the space age? (TaT). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Mike Potter Subject: USN CV reactivation Hello, modelers - About conceivable reactivations of USN CVs ... this isn't about models but it isn't about ultimate reality either so it's close: In 1981 the USN evaluated recommissioning one of USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA 31, decommissioned 1971) and as Steve Allen posted, USS Oriskany (CV 34, decommissioned 1976). See USNI's Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet 13th edition, page 97. -- Oriskany's last air wing was comprised mostly of F-8 Crusaders and A-7B Corsairs, neither of which model remained in service in 1981. A-7Es were in service but required a large installation of shipboard support equipment for maintenance of A-7E avionics. USN aircraft were in short supply, the consequence of inadequate funding for defense with no reduction in commitments. Both USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV 42) and USS Coral Sea (CV 43) made deployments in the late 1970s with two squadrons each of USMC aircraft. -- The cheaper alternative in 1981 was to recommission Bon Homme Richard with an air wing of 40 USMC A-4M Skyhawks. IIRC, the Navy actually proposed recommissioning Bon Homme Richard for a price of about $1 billion. Congress balked at this proposal and OSD withdrew it. Congress instead funded the recommissioning of USS New Jersey (BB 62) and the construction of USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) and George Washington (CVN 73). There is now neither a plan nor a reason to reactivate any aircraft carrier from reserve. If another aircraft carrier is needed, the fastest and cheapest source is simply to continue the present commission of USS Constellation (CV 64). However, the plan is to decommission Constellation this summer. Trivia question: Which in-commission aircraft carrier has USS Forrestal's anchors? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: CokerRE Subject: Re: Marine Steam Turbines On a visit to Ireland two years ago, one of the places I visited happened to be the ancestral home of the Parsons family--a quite accomplished group including one of the early astronomers. On the estate was the original circa 1840 observatory--the forerunner of modern ones. I do remember a display of Parsons and his development of the turbine engine including a large painting of the Turbina running through the fleet and a large model of her. PC Coker/Charleston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Jim Chaconas Subject: Re: Mauritania To;VONJERSEY I had difficulty scanning the articles for Michael D'Silva, so I mailed him my two magazines, Michael is a computer 'wiz' so maybe he will be able to scan them, or better yet, scan them to the SMML website for all to use..Michael, I hope I didn't 'kill' you with this one............ Best, Jim Chaconas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Draft figures A couple of weeks ago someone on SMML asked about the draft figures on the stem of naval vessels. I promised to give more information when I could look them up some rainy day. Well, we in Nova Albion have had a lllllooooonnnggg string of rainy days, and I have cleaned up many loose ends, including this one. The sixth edition (1918) of the U. S. Navy "Bluejacket's Manual", page 125, has the following. "Q. How is the draft determined by these figures? A. The bottom of each figure marks the exact even (this word should be "integer", not "even", F.K.B.) number of feet from the bottom of the keel; the tops of the figures indicate the half feet. The rest is estimated by the eye. For example, the bottom of the figure 9 is exactly 9 feet from the bottom of the keel. The top of the figure 9 is exactly 9 feet six inches from the bottom of the keel." The inference here is that the figures are 6 inches high and the vertical spacing is between figures is 6 inches. Have there been any changes in these specifications in the current edition of the Manual? They do not address the circumstance whereby the ship might be down by the bow or by the stern. If down by the bow, the draft figure reading is valid, but if down by the stern, then an allowance must be made as the after part of the keel will indeed be deeper in the water. I just thought up a simple instrument to determine this allowance. Whilst looking this up I happened to notice a reference to something I had never heard of, namely that a black waterline was painted all around the inside of U. S. Navy ships. In 1918, anyway. I thought getting a waterline on the outside straight and correct was a difficult thing, but on the inside it is infinitely more so. No mention is made of the purpose of this internal waterline, and I just can't come up with any reason, let alone a good one. Can any SMML people tell us if this is still done, or how, or why? Have I ruined the day for builders of super-detailed models? Sic 'em, SMML! Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: USS Salem This just in from the Maritime History List: A Wisconsin group may be interested in buying the USS Salem, the warship now kept in Quincy but facing eviction in January. Milwaukee businessman Dennis Bersch said his group, which visited the Fore River shipyard last week to inspect the 700-foot retiree from the Navy's Cold War fleet, has not made a formal request to buy the ship. Although local leaders are trying to keep the Salem in town, the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority is selling the shipyard space where the ship is now docked under an already extended lease that expires in January. © Copyright by the Boston Herald Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models, Ltd. http://whiteensignmodels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: NAS4853 Subject: Marine Steam Turbines ("TURBINIA") Any of the listed sites below give a wealth of information about the steam turbine launch "TURBINIA" and its exploits at the Spithead Fleet review as mentioned. There is also in existence actual film footage of the event which is featured in one of the sites below. in 1907 the turbinia was nearly sliced in two in an accident and for many years spent the rest of its life in storage until it was renovated and is currently on display in a north of England museum. Any search made referring to the Turbinia or its builder Parsons will give even more detail than this message site can include. http://mcs.open.ac.uk/dac3/OurNavy/turbinia.htm http://www.nhsc.org.uk/NRHV/NRHV_Detail.cfm?ID=138 http://www-g.eng.cam.ac.uk/125/noflash/1875-1900/turbinia.html http://www.iaste.com/hall_of_fame/parsons/parsons4.html Best of British Luck Norman Sells Tenterden UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Panda Burke DDGs Hi SMMLies, Just picked up the Panda Burke class DDG. It looks pretty much the same quality as the DML kits of the DD"s and CG's. Of course us rivet counters will have many things to gripe about but the kit is a good base to start with. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Kutina Subject: Armed Forces face big new cuts, say Tories http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/27/narmy27.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/05/27/ixnewstop.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: FIGURES HI YA'LL, A LITTLE HELP PLEASE. I'M WORKING ON A DIORAMA OF THE H.M.S. VICTORY GUN DECK IN 1/16. WHERE CAN I FIND FIGURES TO USE ON THIS? DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: andrew jones Subject: Ship wrecks - 60 Minutes - Aussie version Im not how many people saw the Aussie 60 Minutes show on Sunday & the previous Sunday # The Navy Ship Centaur....( a quick re-cap - a few years ago someone claimed to have discovered the hospital ship Centaur, that was sunk by a Jap sub off the Oz coast in WW2.. the Govt accepeted the claim after the con artist had stated it was verified by various Museums - that never were approached in the first place & to add a funny story about it..the ship that this man claimed was the Cenatur was a freighter sunk by the RAAF as target practise in the 40's/50's & was marked in official records that is open to the public) you would think the Navy or someone would want a proper investigation into the wreck to see if it's the real thing, especially with all those wrecks up there... # WW2 ..for those that dont get the show or missed it. There was a story about WW2 wrecks & the danger of oil leaks especially in the Pacific Lagoons.. There was 1 ship a USN tanker (whose name escapes me) that was hit a Kamikaze & sank with just about its full load of fuel & it was in danger of releasing the fuel earlier in the year. Because it was in international waters it was the problem of the US & they I think did not wanna do anything about it, until it was nearly too late & they sent a ship to get all the fuel @ a cost of about $6,000,000 dollars (which they hope to recycle & sell back to try to make some money back on it) & the ships in Truk Lagoon are in danger of releasing their fuel, but Japan has washed their hands of the ships..now sure the WW2 ships are about to break open, but what about those other wrecks in peace time, who's job is it to clean them up & think of the environmental damage caused especially if the Truk Lagoon ships break open.. I know that man regards Andrew Jones ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Re: Marine steam turbines For Franklyn: I'm sure the the British contingent will be happy to jump in here, but I think Turbinia herself is still around. There is a tonne of material on the introduction of the turbine around, but a place to start small is the last chapter of D.K. Brown's "Warrior to Dreadnought". I would put Parson's name into a search engine and see what comes up. I just did, and amoung Yahoo's 350,000 entries is "Turbinia. The Stroy of Charles Parsons and His Ocean Greyhound" by Ken Smith (ISBN 1-85795-037-2). Pirie Sublett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "The Captain" Subject: Looking for built 1/350 Ticonderoga class I need a USS Chancellorsville built or a Ticon. and change the hull numbers for Jul 7th '03. Need with plexi cover contact me if you can do it. The Captain Naval Base Hobbies www.totalnavy.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane & Lorna Subject: ACTSMS show this weekend Hi all, Just wondering how many SMMLies will be attending the ACTSMS show in Canberra this weekend?? Check out their site at: http://www.actsms.asn.au/ for the full details. Regards, Shane & Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sab1156@aol.com Subject: 1/700 Scharnhorst & Gneisenau Greetings, Does anyone has the contact adress of the 1/700 model club in Kobe/Japan? HP models are planing to make the Scharnhorst & Gneisenau in 1/350 scale in Resin, if there are enough interested customers! You can contact me through e-mail if you would like to order one of this models. Best Regards Detlef Hartwig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: More Pre-Owned Books Hi All, Some new additions to our pre-owned books. Prices are in British Pounds: 760. POOLMAN, Kenneth, Allied Submarines of World War Two, Arms & Armour Press, 1990, H/b, d/j, 160pp, appendix, bibliography, index, text deals briefly with the forerunners of the WW2 subs, then covers mainly the RN and USN, with one chapter on "Submarined of other Allied nations"‹Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Soviet Union, and Yugoslavia, with 164 photos, 4 line drawings, 8 maps. Normal d/j wear, else EXCELLENT. 45.00 761. NEWELL, Gordon and VADM Allan E. Smith, USN (Ret.), Mighty Mo: The U.S.S. Missouri, A Biography of the Last Battleship, Bonanza Books, 1969, H/b, d/j, 190pp, appendix, index, text covers the history of the ship from her design and launch up to her then-mothballed status in 1969, with 263 photos. Normal d/j wear, else EXCELLENT. 24.00 762. WATTS, Anthony J., Allied Submarines and Axis Submarines, Macdonald & Janeąs, 1977, a boxed set of two volumes, both first s/b editions. ŚWorld War 2 Fact Filesą series, 64 pp. each volume. Every class of submarine operated or planned by both sides is listed, together with a short background to the designs. Technical data and a brief note of the fate of each submarine is also given. Includes 183 photos between the 2 volumes. NEAR MINT copies in worn slipcover. 22.00 763. COX, Harold, C Class Destroyers, published by the author, 1994, 1st edition, s/b, 80pp, glossary of terms, appendices of technical details & pennant numbers, text covers the history of every ship of the class, augmented by 31 photos. We've never seen this book before! NEAR MINT copy, SIGNED BY THE AUTHOR. 18.00 764. TAYLOR, J.C., German Warships of World War II, Ian Allan, 1966, 1st edition, H/b, no d/j, 168pp, index, text covers every ship of every class, with technical data, fate of each ship, augmented by 108 photos. Some foxing, and spine sun-faded, else GOOD. 12.00 765. BEAVER, Paul, German Capital Ships, PSL, 1980, 1st edition, World War 2 Photo Album series, 94pp, minimal text, with 150 photos from the Bundesarchiv, Koblenz. Normal cover wear, else VERY GOOD. 20.00 Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models, Ltd. http://whiteensignmodels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SANDLE Hobbies Subject: RAN Storm Grey & Pewter deck colour & other news Just in time for ACTSMS (see other post in this SMML) we have received WEM Colourcoats RAN Storm Grey and Deck (Pewter) paint. All those people who had pre-orders in for this paint have had theirs shipped to them today so it should be with them shortly. Just the thing for all manner of modern RAN Vessels. Other news - I have just finished updating the website with the addition of Regia Marina and Iron Shipwright. Both these companies have produced some very interesting models for anyone looking for something "out of the common". There's more coming but you'll have to wait ....... Cheers Lorna Jenkins SANDLE Hobbies http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume