Subject: SMML VOL 2206 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 01:26:22 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: new Imperial Russian Navy "gunboat" kit 2: Re: Zviezda kits 3: Re: Zvezda kits 4: KORA manned torpedoes and miniature subs 5: Re: 1:700 Bismarck 6: Re: Military Fonts 7: Re: 1:700 Bismarck Waterline, Who makes one? 8: Re: AFV Club Type XXI U-Boat 9: Piers 10: Charlie Noble 11: USS Salem & Milwaukee 12: Internal waterlines 13: Re: CAD Question, fairing curves 14: Re: "Charlie Noble" 15: Re: American built SC in French Navy taken over by British... 16: Osprey: German Pocket Battleships Book 17: Bismark Hunt Vessels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Re: ACTSMS mini show report ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: new Imperial Russian Navy "gunboat" kit It seems that there is a new Imperial Russian Navy "gunboat" kit by AER 1/144 (resin) WW1 'Spike' gun boat @$22. On NK Models website: http://www.nkrmodels.com.au/, under new releases, there is a brief description and a link to this kit's boxtop. Though this is not to my scale, some of you might find it interesting. The above distributor's review of this kit follows. "If the sailor on deck looks a little large for the ship (box top) it's because he's well over 7' tall (2.160 metres...or 15mm in 1/144 scale)...obviously AER feels they bred them big in the Urals around the turn of last century! The Russians had ten river gun boats in the early 20th century...including 'Spike'. This all resin kit (optional full hull or waterline) has just 17 parts plus a length of wire...probably to 'rig' the mast...but the mast is not supplied or shown in the instruction drawings! The deck has raised detail and portholes are recessed into the sides of the hull." Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Zviezda kits Morris, I can only give you a very general advice on those kits but I would advise a bit of caution. I remember buying "Purquoi Pas" about 30 years ago and it was a very nice kit in those days: Nicely casted, detailed, crisp and with no flash. I think that the original moulds were ones which Heller sold to USSR (along with Avrora and Potiemkin). Trouble is that if Zviezda didn't clean up the moulds or didn't look after them properly by now those kits may suffer from severe "sucked candy" syndrome. Still since they are not expensive and so I would advise to buy one and check the overall quality for yourself. Regards Darius ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Peter Samolinski" Subject: Re: Zvezda kits As well as the 1:350 Type XXI, that Astrokit site also has the CIWS that the one member is looking for. I've only experienced one Zvezda kit (armor), and I would say the quailty is "Medium Italeri", which is to say generally okay, but can vary from kit to kit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: KORA manned torpedoes and miniature subs The KORA kits of manned torpedoes and miniature subs in 1/72 scale; the Katie I & II, Negro, Marred, and Schwertwal I & II, can be ordered directly from this company's secure website for $32.00 USD each at: http://www.lfmodels.cz/vypis.asp?Sortiment=24. These kits fill a distinct niche in naval modeling history. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: URUDOFSKY Subject: Re: 1:700 Bismarck There are several 1:700 Bismarcks: see the model page at Jose Rico's website: www.kbismarck.com for pictures of Bismarck models from 1:100 to 1:1250. http://www.kbismarck.com/models/index.html Also take a look at the models and the marvelous 3D CAD illustrations at John Asmussen's Bismarck site: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/ Ulrich Rudofsky Translator/Archivist KBismarck.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Military Fonts Harold wrote >> For those who wish to make their own correct military fonts for their models, try going to Modeling Fonts at: http://www.tlai.com/med_des/modeling.html This should clear up ANY problems about the exact font needed on your models. << A note of caution. The following is quoted from the LongBeach USN product listing: "LongBeachUSN is a reproduction of the modern lettering used for US Navy and Marine aircraft since the 1950s. This font follows the 30 degree/90 degree style of lettering." This is the modern US Navy aircraft style of lettering. It is not correct for WWII and prior era applications. It is also totally inaccurate for hull names and numbers. The Air Force and stencil styles are also incorrect for accurate naval applications. The only product which may be useable for naval applications are the WWII carrier deck numerals. Twenty bucks plus for a single-user license is steep for product of dubious use and applicability. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "bert" Subject: Re: 1:700 Bismarck Waterline, Who makes one? Steve, Aoshima make a 700 kit of the "Illustrious" which at the time of the "Bismarck action" was almost identical to the "Victorious". If you cannot obtain P.o.W. Remove the external degaussing equipment from the KG.V and add an army type bofor gun, surrounded by an elongated lengthwise shield, on the quarterdeck, and you will have the major differences covered. I do not know what period the kit of the Illustrious is but at the time of the action.1941 (May) the carriers both had a definite "round down at the aft end of the flight deck and were without the fantail oerliken aa guns. TaT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: NeustadtDonau Subject: Re: AFV Club Type XXI U-Boat The June Squadron Mail Order Supplement list just such a kit on page 11. It is Type XXI U-Boat, 1/350 scale, stock number 6-ACS73501, list priced at $21.98, sale price $19.97. If they have it, I'm sure others will shortly. I was curious about the kit when I saw it. Usually a kit doesn't slip through the hobby's highly sophisticated early warning system. Does anyone know anything about this kit? Old DML, perhaps? On another note, I finally finished a model over which I have been slaving for the past 27 months. Huzzah. I sure hated it while it was in pieces--to pieces sometimes--but I rather like it now that the bugger is done. I am presently working on 700 scale Italian stuff. The Andrea Doria, Eugenio di Savoia, Folgore and Driade. Anyone have any experience with any of these kits? Thanks, John Collins Franklin, TN, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Steven P. Allen Subject: Piers I'm looking for pics of piers for a diorama I'm putting together. The "deck" of the pier isn't as important as the sides down to the water (even underwater, if possible, but I know that's not likely). The piers I'm looking for would be the kind in a west coast US Navy yard during WWII. Also, does anyone have a handy source of rippled plexiglass? I assumed my local home supply store would carry it, but they do not. I'm actually foolish enough to consider showing the underwater portion (encased in clear plexiglass on three sides. Steve Allen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: mmaynard3 Subject: Charlie Noble Charlie Noble- Sailor's nautical name for the galley smoke pipe. Derived from the British merchant service Captain Charles Noble, who required a high polish on the galley funnel. The funnel of his galley was of copper and its brightness became known in all ports visited. As Mr. Bender pointed out in his remarks, many a boot seaman was sent to find Charlie Noble, retrieve 12 feet of shore line from the Bosun, visit the engine room and get some relative bearing oil, and my favorite, getting a bucket of steam from the fire room and showing it to the OOD. Just a means of passing time at sea. Mike Maynard USCG(ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ouellette, Lawrence M" Subject: USS Salem & Milwaukee John Snyder wrote: >> From the Boston Herald: This just in from the Maritime History List: A Wisconsin group may be interested in buying the USS Salem, the warship now kept in Quincy but facing eviction in January. Milwaukee businessman Dennis Bersch said his group, which visited the Fore River shipyard last week to inspect the 700-foot retiree from the Navy's Cold War fleet, has not made a formal request to buy the ship. Although local leaders are trying to keep the Salem in town, the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority is selling the shipyard space where the ship is now docked under an already extended lease that expires in January. << A much more detailed article appeared in the Patriot Ledger: http://ledger.southofboston.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2003/May/24-909-news07.txt I think the Dennis Bersch group is really just trying to get publicity. They could have saved a ton of money on airfare and hotels by making a phone call or sending an email. The USS Salem is not leaving Quincy, period. If everything works out, it won't even be leaving the existing location. If the ship has to move from the existing pier, there is a 99.9% chance it will stay in Quincy. Even if that doesn't work, there is an offer in place to that would keep the ship in Massachusetts. Bottom line: The likelihood of the USS Salem going to any other state is zero. The only real news in the Patriot Ledger article is the last sentence: "Meanwhile, the Salem recently received positive marks in a state audit that reviewed the ship's use of a $2 million state grant to renovate the ship. The money was all used properly, the audit found." Last year, during an attempted management change, Mayor Phelan asked for an audit of the museum's use of the $2 million state grant to scrape, paint and repair the ship's hull and through-hull openings. Since state grant money is handled, by law, through a 3rd party project administrator and all money is paid directly to the contractors by the state, there was a 0% chance of finding anything wrong. This letter, from the USS Newport News Museum and Memorial Foundation, is a better use of newsprint: http://ledger.southofboston.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2003/May/27-2201-opin02.txt Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Ouellette, Lawrence M" Subject: Internal waterlines Franklyn Brown wrote: >> I happened to notice a reference to something I had never heard of, namely that a black waterline was painted all around the inside of U. S. Navy ships. In 1918, anyway. I thought getting a waterline on the outside straight and correct was a difficult thing, but on the inside it is infinitely more so. No mention is made of the purpose of this internal waterline, and I just can't come up with any reason, let alone a good one. Can any SMML people tell us if this is still done, or how, or why? << On the USS Salem there are 4 inch by 4 inch brass plaques that have a black cross in the center. If the plaque is mounted on the centerline of the ship, it says how far above, or below, the cross-hair is from the waterline. If the plaque is mounted off-center, it also says how many feet off-center it is. There are also some short (1 foot or so) hand-painted red lines that have a 'SWL' stenciled above it painted on various bulkheads on the 3rd deck. These appear to be add-ons that the crew did to help them know where they were in relation to the ship's waterline. These marks do not reconcile with the plaques (a few feet too high) so I think they were just used for a rough indication of where you were in the ship. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Re: CAD Question, fairing curves Hi George, yes, you are right. However, my original intention with that particular tutorial was to show how to import and use existing aerofoil section data to create a useable line. The unsmooth lines are a bit of a diversion, but need to be sorted! I wonder if the accuracy that CAD systems work to highlights any variations in the data from the ideal line, whereas when used on a manual drawing board, or marking out a piece of wood or aluminium to make a real wing rib, these variations would disappear inside the pencil line! CAD can be too good sometimes..... At least with Rhino you have a great many options and tools to edit how the curve is generated, and certainly deleting some of the points results in a smoother curve. You still need the original points to assess how close your new curve is to the original data, and judge by how much you can move things and still have a reasonable match. That was partially covered in the latter part of the tutorial. It would be interesting to know how the hulls were done after Mr Taylors method fell into disuse. And how things are done today! Tim Perry wunwinglow www.tjpgraphics.com for digital aviation modelling ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Re: "Charlie Noble" According to "Traditions of the Naval Service" on the Naval Historical Center website (www.history.navy.mil/index.html), Charlie Noble was a captain who demanded the copper galley stove pipe be kept bright and thus earned the undying devotion of his crew :-) who started calling the pipe "Charlie Noble". I hate like anything to doubt the good and earnest scholars at the Historical Center, but this doesn't sound likely to me. My guess is that "Charlie Noble" is some sort of rhyming slang. Pirie Sublett - San Diego ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: David Gregory Subject: Re: American built SC in French Navy taken over by British... Interestingly, I found a picture today of CH98 after the British took her over. She is tied up with another Chassuer and (teasingly) an unidentified patrol yacht. It was in a 5 volume set titled " Veterans of Foreign Wars Illustrated History of World War 2", published right after the war. All I can tell from the picture (a bow-on shot) is the CH98 looks like a WW1 rigged SC. The caption just says these were ships taken over by the British. Also found a nice shot of a Soviet MBKA armored gunboat, the seagoing 114' version that is as rare as hen teeth. I have a 1/600 model available of the WW1 SC if you are interested. Dave G The P.T. Dockyard http://ptdockyard.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Osprey: German Pocket Battleships Book I looked at this at my game store and was singularly unimpressed. How many decades after the Warship Profile on the GRAF SPEE came out with the bogus use of green as a camo color, and the book repeats that? I'm going to take another look at the book later, but my initial impression is don't rush out and buy it. Brooks A Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Bismark Hunt Vessels Stephen, The Bismark hunt vessels. German: Bismark, Prinz Eugan British: Patrol Force: Norfolk, Suffolk Intercept Force: Hood, Prince of Wales, Electra, Echo, Icarus, Achates, Antelope, Anthony First attack Force: Victorious, King George V, Repulse, Galatea, Aurora, Kenya, Hermoine, plus 9 Destroyers probably including Punjabi and Somali. Who were the others??? Vivian's destroyer attack force from WS8A: Cossack, Sikh, Zulu, Maori, Pirouin Force H - Ark Royal, Renoun, Sheffield, Faulknor, Lance and ?other DDs (probably some or all of the 7 F class - who can identify them???) Finishing Off Force - Rodney, King George V, Doresetshire, Norfolk, Edinburgh. Rodney also had 3 destroyers in company (2 by time of intercept). Believe to be Mashona (sunk), Tartar and possibly Jupiter. Mashona and Tartar were the 2 in company. Kits - as you say Tamiya does kits of Prinz Eugan, Rodney, PoW, KGV. Beware the PoW kit is at Dec 41 loss configuration, KGV kit at late war configuration. Two PoWs may be a lot easier alter than back converting the KGV. IIRC Rodney is 1927 fit (Nelson is late war). WEM make PE for KGV class, Rodney and Prinz Eugan. Suffolk is made by B-Resina and by HP - both resin. The first is cruder but right period - HP is 1942 fit and more expensive. Both badly need a PE set - the WEM County class will provide this. Norfolk is available from Skytrex as a pewter model. It is basically in early 1941 fit but has some deficiencies and inacuracies and is slightly over size. Come back to me off-line if you need more info - I cleaned her up to Dec 43 fit. Dorestshire (sister to Norfolk) is available in resin from Waveline - this kit is beautifully detailed (including exquisit metal parts and PE) but is pre-war fit and about 3% undersized. Alongside sister Norfolk from Skytrex the pair look odd. Converting the Skytrex Norfolk is an option although solid peuter is not easy to do. Victorious (as Indomitable / Formidable) and Bismark are made by Aoshima. These were early kits and whilst very cheap they are best described as crude. They can be cleaned up. You may have to invest heavily in replacement parts and PE to make a decent model of either - in the case of Victorious this may be easier said than done as there is no specific PE set although WEM's Ark Royal could be used for some things. WSW make some German bits (mostly AA). Think GMM may do a Bismark / Tirpitz PE set. Ark Royal - Revell make this in 720 scale - as close as you will get. WEM has a PE set to clean this up. Sheffield - you can't go past WEM's kit. Repulse - I believe both B-Resina and HP have a kit of this - no idea of quality. Both would almost certainly need a PE set from somewhere. The WEM set for Renoun may help. Renown - WEM are promising this (when???). HP have a kit of unknown quality - may be the way to go with the WEM PE set (available). HP kit is early war, WEM kit is supposed to be going to be 1944 fit. Tribal class destroyers - you do get a freebee with the Revell kit - rather basic. The Samek kits are the way to go - the Eskimo is ealy war fit. Need to check which had the twin 4in in place of X turret (one or more may not have) and the AA fit. Pirouin - an N class - the closest to the right fit would be the B-Resina Jupiter which should be about right. Definitely needs the WEM JKN PE set though. Alternatively convert the WEM Kashmir kit (need 4in gun and bandstand). Jupiter - B-Resina kit plus WEM PE. The Es and Fs less Faulknor can be made from the B-Resina Glowworm with quad torpedos substituted. Icarus can be made from B-Resina Hero with quin torpedoes from the Glowworm kit! Achates, Antelope, Anthony could be adapted from the HP G class kits (but not Glowworm). Lance is available from HP, needs some 0.5in quads (WEM sell them). Faulknor would require major surgery - a stretch of the B-Resina Glowworm or a HP G class. All the DD s (except the Samek kits) could use some PE (I use the inexpensive WEM Tribal). Galatea and Aurora can be made from the WEM Penelope kit. Hermoine from the WEM Dido kit. Kenya is available from Skytrex. Hope this is some use. John Sutherland New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Pantelidis, Steve" Subject: Re: ACTSMS mini show report Shane & Lorna Thank you for your note. I would just like to add that the success of our show was mainly due to the efforts of Jerry Cashman and his team (Andrew Young, Mike Grieve, Dave White, Mike Stynes, Jeff Wilson and many others). It was also due to the continued support we receive from people such as yourselves: and we are very happy to have such support! I would also like to say that we are very lucky to have Stephen Allen joining our ranks here at the ACTSMS. His model of the USS Yorktown was absolutely beautiful! A worthy 'Model of the Year' in every sense. It was perhaps a little ironic that one of the prizes for 'Model of the Year' was a book on 'How to Build Scale Model Ships'! Stephen should very well be contributing to such a book... Hope to catch up with you all soon. Steve P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume