Subject: SMML VOL 2212 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:07:09 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: 1:550 RMS Titanic 2: Re: 1st True Carrier 3: Re: RCing CVN carrier Enterprise 4: Re: Aircraft carriers 5: Re: Aircraft carriers 6: Re: Carriers 7: Re: Aircraft Carriers 8: Re: 'Ohka' 9: Re: Okinawa typhoons 10: Semaphores 11: Re: Aircraft carriers 12: Re: Aircraft carriers 13: Re: Aircraft carriers 14: First True Carriers 15: Re: A True Modeller.....???!!! 16: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene 17: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene 18: Re: Model shops and Museums around Washington DC 19: Re: Aircraft Carriers 20: Re: Aircraft Carriers 21: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene 22: Earliest U.S. Aircraft Carrier Designed as such- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 20% off til midnight 6/15 at Tridenthobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: andrew jones Subject: 1:550 RMS Titanic Quick question I have got the Lee 1:550 Titanic... what is available in photo-etched..see that Sandle has 1:500 ladders & railings so guess that's close enough right??..what about figures? got the kit on special..thinking of building 1 or 2 in this scale & maybe even coughing up a few dollars for the 1:350..i think i saw it at another local hobby store at a good discount price...the plan for next year (always a plan depends if it comes true or not..best laid plans of mice & men etc)..the 1:350 sailing along... the 1:550 hitting the ice berg & maybe doing the other 1:550 breaking in half... all just maybe regards Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CapnAgee Subject: Re: 1st True Carrier USS Ranger was the first true American carrier. Langley was a Collier and Saratoga and Lexington were cruiser hulls. My Uncle served on both Langley and Ranger as an Aircraft Machinists Chief. He could never understand why Ranger was not preserved for it's historical value rather than become razor blades. Ray Agee Tempe, Az ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: CapnAgee Subject: Re: RCing CVN carrier Enterprise Hey Rustbucket... rc/motorizing small stuff (1/350 etc.) is a very interesting way to have fun and run in small ponds and pools. Think seriously about modifing servos using the motors and 'whatchamacallits", oh - pots as speed controls. Extremely light and runs right off your receiver battery. The few guys I have known that have tried carriers haven't been too happy with the results but don't let that slow you down. Currently some folks like the 1/350 Arizona and Iowa BBs but their are many 'little' ships and boats to do. I'm currently building a Revell Chris Craft 'Fishing' Cruiser from the '50s. It was re-released about 10 years ago. Ray Agee Tempe. Az ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Enrico Reiser" Subject: Re: Aircraft carriers Hi Franklyn, The first American carrier build as such was USS Ranger CV-4. The first British carrier build as such was HMS Hermes. Regards Enrico ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "dennis irwin" Subject: Re: Aircraft carriers If I recall correctly the frst carrier designed from the keel up for the US navy was the Renger. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Lkjohnson214 Subject: Re: Carriers USS RANGER (CV-4)was the first US CV built from the keel up as a flattop. The first British carrier designed from the start was HMS HERMES. Lance Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "RUSSELL SMITH" Subject: Re: Aircraft Carriers The first designed as an aircraft carrier? USS Ranger CV 4 for the Americans. HMS Hermes for the British Regards; Russ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Jim Chaconas Subject: Re: 'Ohka' Jim, I don't remember the scale of the Hawk kit, but if you are just looking for an Ohka, Hasegawa has one with their 'Betty' kit in 1/72 scale. I have one, still on the sprues, w/plans, I'd be willing to part with....let me know. Best, Jim Chaconas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Diodor Subject: Re: Okinawa typhoons When researching my book "Splinter Fleet" we did a fairly thorough study of the typhoons in Okinawa for 1945. There were a couple of nasty tropical storms in April and I think, June (both unnamed) but I'm not sure they could be called typhoons. There was an unnamed disturbance in September that has been called by some a typhoon and may very likely have been one because there was considerable havoc as a result. But the blockbuster took place October 9-10. Known in history as Typhoon "Louise" it hit Buckner Bay, Okinawa, where hundreds of navy ships were anchored or docked. It was the worst and most deadly typhoon in our navy's history. In less than 24 hours a total of 265 ships were damaged or grounded. Four fifths of all houses and buildings on Okinawa were destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. Surprisingly, the human casualties were relatively low considering the ferocity of the storm, with 36 dead, 47 missing and approximately 100 seriously injured. Men who lived through Typhoon "Louise" state it was more terrifying than any Kamikaze attack or amphibious operation they had ever experienced. Subchasers were tossed about like matches, nineteen of them hurled onto rocks or reefs. I was in some very bad storms during my subchaser duty in the Pacific but they were nothing compared to "Louise" which, fortunately, I escaped. Ted Treadwell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: GKingzett Subject: Semaphores Can anyone direct me to detailed information about the mechanical semaphores used on the bridges of early 20th century US warships? I have seen several photos in various places, but none close up enough to be able to figure out how to model them. Or perhaps in a signal or Bluejacket's manual it might show how they operate, and I could figure how they were built from that. Thanks Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Kevin Woodruff Subject: Re: Aircraft carriers The first purpose-built aicraft carrier was the U.S.S. Ranger CV-4 commissioned in 1934 http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv04-ranger/cv04-ranger.html http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-r/cv4.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Aircraft carriers In terms of first "purpose-built" carriers by each major navy (listed chronologically): Hosho (Japan) Hermes (UK) Ranger (US) In the long run, all three were overall disappointments, mainly due to their limited sizes. This is off the top of my head, so feel free to correct me. Yohan Fernando ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Graham Preston Subject: Re: Aircraft carriers Regarding the first U.S. and British carriers designed and built from the keel up as aircraft carriers, the fisrt USN ship designed and built as such, was the USS RANGER, CV4, commissioned in July 1934, and the first RN ship was HMS HERMES, commisioned in July 1923. Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Peter K. H. Mispelkamp" Subject: First True Carriers According to my sources: RN - HMS Hermes US - USS Ranger (CV-4) FWITW - IJN - Hosho or Ryujo There is evidence that suggests that the Hosho was originally designed as an oiler. Regards Peter K. H. Mispelkamp ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: stillmo Subject: Re: A True Modeller.....???!!! Gus....GUSDOCVILL.....did I miss a meeting? What was that posting all about? I have short term memory so if I offended you or anyone I am sorry, dont remember what I said that would merit being called a "true modeller'...... we are ALL modellers on this and other boards. I am no different.......enlighten me? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SeaPhoto Subject: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene Hi Donald, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the judging. If you go to a model show that does not make special allowances for R/C compromises (and IPMS does not) then it is hardly unfair to be judged accordingly. Screws in the deck, painted or not, are going to take a big hit. I understand with a carrier that you have limited choices if you want to maintain access to the interior, but one of the first things the judges look for are overscale items, or parts that don't belong on a model. They are judging by museum standards. Likewise for seams; that is a basic thing they look for on any kit, how well the seems are handled. There are strategies you can use to hide the screws - make up little deck dioramas that can be placed over them while the model is being judged - a parked plane here, a crewmember getting chewed out by a petty officer there, perhaps some of deck equipment. The seams are going to be virtually impossible to hide unless you go with staggered deck planking and lots and lots of time. The alternative is to pick subjects that can be radio controlled without visible external compromises - battleships do well with their large superstructures that provide a natural access point for the interior. At a R/C show or regatta, your carrier sounds like it would easily win best of show, but when we take our models to other venues, we should be willing to accept that we are being held to a different standard. If it's any consolation, remember that the two modelers who placed better will never experience the joy of seeing their model glide silently through a glassy pond early in the morning, or running in formation with a dozen other models all in the same scale. Kurt Greiner Warship Models Underway - learn about large scale radio control warship models. www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Ron Subject: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene Oh stop whining, you entered an apple in an orange contest. Can I bring my static 1/700 DKM Prinz Eugen to an RC meet and have it fairly judged? I bet not since it's waterline and has no working running gear....but hey it should be judged so that it can win because the effort put into it, right? IPMS rules are pretty clear and under those rules you took valid hits for visible defects. If you want a class for your type of model that will be judged solely with other models of the type, lobby for it. Five to ten years ago you couldn't even have entered your ship because it didn't meet the minimum percentage of plastic in it's construction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Ron Subject: Re: Model shops and Museums around Washington DC >> I am visiting the Washington area around the weekend 20 - 22 June. From a search of old SMML messages I have already noted that Nostalgic Plastic and the Smithsonian are musts. I would be grateful for any other suggestions including Radio Control model boat shops and museums for WW2 and the naval side of the Civil war. << Francis, that will be the last weekend of Nostalgic Plastic. After then they will be closed for good. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Aircraft Carriers >> Can anyone name the first American carrier designed from the very beginning to be an aircraft carrier? That might be a good question to apply to the British Fleet Air Arm as well << This would be the LANGLEY. Laid down in Sep 1931, launched Feb 1933 and completed July 1934. 14,000 tons, 76 a/c. The first British carrier in this category was HERMES. Laid down in Jan 1918, launched Sep 1919 and completed in Jul 1923. 10,850 tons, 20 a/c. The Japanese HOSHO is often ref to as the first such carrier in the world but this is disputed as it is believed she was first laid down as an oiler. She certainly entered service some seven months before HERMES. HOSHO was laid down in Dec 1919, launched Nov 1921 and completed Dec 1922. 7,470 tons, 26 a/c. If HOSHO fails the test of being the first then the first Japanese carrier in the category would have been RYUJO. Laid down Nov 1929, launched Apr 1931 and completed May 1933. 8,000 tons, 48 a/c. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Richa5011 Subject: Re: Aircraft Carriers Franklyn asked: >> Can anyone name the first American carrier designed from the very beginning to be an aircraft carrier? << Ranger CV4 was the first built from the keel up. >> That might be a good question to apply to the British Fleet Air Arm as well. << HMS Hermes would have that distinction for the RN. All previous ships were conversions of existing hulls or from ships still on the ways. The IJN's Hosho was the first ship to be specifically designed and built for launching aircraft other than seaplanes. Nat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene In the past, I have entered four R/C ship models in IPMS/USA Nationals contests, all four to 1/96 scale, and three were scratchbuilt or mostly so. The results were as follows: 1. KM Scharnhorst (WW2 german battlecruiser), all scracthbuilt, two years to build, eight feet long and 90 pounds, animated weapons, aircraft catapult, cranes, lights, and sound system, entered in Atlanta in the late 1970's. Awards: zero, and deservedly so. I had never seen an IPMS show at the time and didn't know how good the competition was. My Scharnhorst wasn't good enough, plain and simple. In fact, it was embarrassingly bad compared to the other ships at the show. First in Class and Best of Show went to John Ficklen's 1/192 USS Atlanta. I left Atlanta with my tail between my legs, but much wiser. And I was determined to beat the odds. 2. USS Long Beach (CGN-9, nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser) seven feet long, 45 pounds, animated weapons, sound system. Much higher level of craftsmanship, two years to build, 99.99% scratchbuilt including home-made fiberglass hull, vacuformed boat hulls, cast resin directors, etc. The only commercial fittings were the two anchors, attached to home-made scale stud-link anchor chain. All fasteners and on-off switches hidden from view, no seams or non-scale fittings visible.Entered in New York City IPMS Nats, early 1980's. Awards: First Place in Class and Best Ship. Today, this model would not even place due to inproved standards. 3. Navy tugboat Eden-Shaw with scratchbuilt ammunition barge; tug heavily modified from Lindberg kit, 12 inches long, functional R/C rudder and throttle. Entered in same New York contest as Long Beach (above). Awards: zero, and deservedly so - competition was very strong, and this model, though cleanly built, well detailed, and nicely painted, was not that impressive. 4. USS Vogelgesang (DD-862, Vietnam-era FRAM Gearing destroyer) four feet long, ten pounds, purchased fiberglass hull from The Scale Shipyard, all else 99.99% scratchbuilt from Lexan, styrene, and brass. My first extensive use of photoetched fittings, self-designed and etched by Foto-Cut of Erieville, New York. Animated R/C dual independent throttles, twin rudders, two 5" gun mounts, two radars. Hand-made brass screws, shafts, and rudders built to official scale drawings. No fasteners, seams, switches, or non-scale fittings visible. Entered in IPMS Phoenix Nats, mid-1980's. Awards: First in Class, Best of Show, and Judges' Grand Award. First R/C scale model to win all these awards in IPMS/USA history. Later entered in Great Britain's Model Engineer Exhibition. Awards: Gold Medal, first U.S. built scale model of any type to win a Gold at this 80+ year old show. Today, this model would be lucky to receive a First in Class due to improved standards. Observations: When entering a contest, build according to the show's rules. IPMS models (worldwide, not just USA) are judged according to flaws just as much as accomplishments. Visible fasteners and on/off switches are classified as flaws and the model will be downgraded accordingly. Hours of labor involved are never judged - only the final results. Never forget - IPMS is not an R/C competition, and is not intended for working models - only static display features count. If a modeler wants a better chance of winning a first place with an R/C model, he or she should enter into an R/C competition. Big models are more likely (but not always) to be defeated in IPMS competition due to the greater chances of flaws, bad seams, rough finishes, and so on. If a top award at an IPMS show is the goal, absolutely no compromises will be allowed. I learned this the hard way. But success can be yours if you are ruthless in your pursuit of quality and perfection. Loren Perry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "James Hathaway" Subject: Earliest U.S. Aircraft Carrier Designed as such- In answer to Fkbrown90's question, would that be USS Ranger CV-4(U.S. Navy) and Ark Royal for the Royal Navy? Jim Hathaway ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "cdecker" Subject: 20% off til midnight 6/15 at Tridenthobbies.com All: Just a reminder, in case you missed it. www.tridenthobbies.com is offering 20% off everything in stock, until midnight 6/15. All you need to do is enter the coupon code: fathersday when you checkout. Happy Modeling Chris Decker President TridentHobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume