Subject: SMML VOL 2214 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:15:24 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: For Franklyn 2: IPMS 3: Black Lighthouses 4: Re: Model Shops and Museums in Washington 5: Re: OHKA Kamikaze Model 6: Re: IPMS Judging vs. R/C Static Judging 7: Show judging observations 8: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene 9: Re: Aircraft Carriers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Starting ship modeling club? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "prlhobo" Subject: For Franklyn Can't help with the first carrier. Can you tell me the name of the missile carried on the fantail of the USS Macon (CA-l32)..the SAM was built by the then Martin Marietta. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mastershipbldr Subject: IPMS I stand corrected. I could not see the forest for the tees. I needed to pull my self away from the projuct in order to see clearly (please remember it has been a big part of my life for the last 3 yr. almost). I was use to going to shows that judged differently and I see that now. Taking third was good espescly when you think about the sub also getting horonable mention. The judging was different that is for sure and something that does seem to be more on skill and not what you like. So I stand here today to say I am sorry if I steped on anyones toes and to say thank you for allowing her in. As for the Hornet I am working on a different way to do the flight deck that will hide the seam line and screw holes. So again I stand before you to say I am sorry.It's not sour grapes but a lack of understanding of the rules of the show that were unknow to me. Again sorry and to the judges thank you for a job well done. And I plan to join IPMS. Looking forward to more shows. Donald Haugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mackenzie Gregory Subject: Black Lighthouses Gentlemen, I believe there are three Black Lighthouses worldwide. One, is at Queenscliff Victoria, one at Cork in Ireland, can someone please point me to the location of the third? Thanks in advance. Mac. Gregory. AHOY. Mac's Web Log. http://ahoy.tk-jk.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Dizzydismal Subject: Re: Model Shops and Museums in Washington One must not forget the Navy History Museum at the Washington Navy Yard. Surely, a sight to see. I was there just a few weeks ago. Walked the 5 blocks or so from the metro. Dennis Disbrow Euclid, OH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: OHKA Kamikaze Model >> Keep searching in Ebay, otherwise try John F Green -- www.greenmodels.com << Be quick about ordering from John Green's Green Models, he's going out of business in the very near future, unfortunately. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: IPMS Judging vs. R/C Static Judging Hi SMMLies, IPMS, Hey, rules are rules and they must apply to everyone. I learned to adapt to them for my R/C models and have no problem doing so. In doing this it has caused me to become better at constructing my ships to hide their seams and points of superstructure and deck attachments. The first thing I have always done even before I start to build an R/c boat is to figure how to hide the these points. Also never make anything un-scale just because it's for R/C. Many many times I hear folks say they deliberately made their shafts and props a different scale just so they run better and second they tell me that it's under water so no one will notice. Hey, your model isn't in the water all the time and the judges will see it then. I could go on here but I won't. I don't want to rattle anyone's cage either. Just thought I throw in my 2 cents because that's all I can afford. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: mmaynard3 Subject: Show judging observations I read with interest the comments concerning the entries and judging of model contests and there is much truth in both sides of the controversy. In 1990 the museum in Newburyport, Massachusetts,USA sponsored a ship model contest. As it was the 200th anniversary of the US Coast Guard, the theme was that of Coast Guard vessels. The contest was professionally judged, and open to all builders. The only formal rule was that the models had to be displayed in a protective case and would remain at the museum for two months. My scratch built model of a CG 36' motor life boat in 3/4=1 foot scale took top honors in scratch built small craft division. I had it set up for radio control(which was not a judging feature) and if viewed one wouldn't know, as it was built to "appear" as a static model. Fast forward to fall of that year, I entered my first IPMS contest. Being a "newbie" and unfamiliar with the organization I entered my 36' MLB. It was the largest model at the show and was one of 25 or so ship models. Well, I garnered 4th place in the competition, my model was outclassed by a Viking ship, a destroyer and a tugboat, all plastic kits. Nicely done but plastic. I felt that I had been, well, screwed. But like the good sport I am, I kept my feelings to myself. A couple of weeks later I ran into a contest judge at a hobby shop and he was "talking up the show" to the shop owner and customers. I hate to admit it but I guess I ain't that good of a sport and tore into this guy. He admitted that my model was outstanding (his words) BUT it was made out of wood and that I had entered a PLASTIC show. I replied that in their contest brochure it said MODEL contest, and offered no warning that if you showed up with a non-plastic model you'd be at a severe disadvantage. Then I delivered him a knock out blow. If it was a plastic extravaganza, how did that account for the "Flat Art" category (paper) and the metal figures, resin and plaster (hydrocal) heads and busts? Some of the customers in the shop were getting whipped up when he had no answer and our "judge" said he had to get home and left the shop post haste. I thought I was the only person to have this experience but I spoke to another builder and he also was the recipient of a contest snub. I won't embarrass him but his r/c models win top awards (Mariners Museum contest comes to mind) and appear in model mags as feature articles. The builder told me if you can't win a IPMS competition with a monster boat, win it with a plastic kit. If you've seen one of Keith's plastic or resin models (Tamiya Missouri or battle cruiser Alaska) you'd know why he's a competitor and tough to beat. In fact it's guys like him and a Mr Perry that ruin it for the rest of us at contests, (only kidding!!!) My advice to r/c folk who scratch build, don't go to a soup eating contest with a fork and and everyone else brings a spoon. Scratch building done well is an art form in any medium, but you're competing in an essentialy plastic contest. If you are skilled as a builder of r/c stuff you'll probably have a leg up on box builders or be at least equal to the best of them. And besides it's good to try new things. Four years ago my plastic ship diorama won peoples choice and best of show. Give it a try! ps do the union barges of the War of Northern aggression that carried observation ballons count as the first CARRIERS of AIRCRAFT??? Mike Maynard USCG (ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: RC modelling & the Model club scene Just remember that when I first became aware of IPMS around the late 1960s there was a strong emphasis on the word PLASTIC in the organization name, and there was a limit to the amount of non-plastic material that could be in a model. Scratchbuilt mostly wood or fiberglass ships could not even be entered. I remember being astonished in the last few years about how that rule has changed. Brooks A. Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Brooks Rowlett Subject: Re: Aircraft Carriers >> The first truely unique US Carrier I can think of that had a completely new design would have to be the Forrestal class. << But that design grew from the cancelled supercarrier UNITED STATES. MIDWAY's hull was unique but it was designed around a steam plant that was a modified version of the IOWA class - but the rearrangement they included was sufficient enough to make notable differences. I want a model of the 1945 US Fleet Carrier design study! And I still plan to someday make a model of the original flush-decked design for FORRESTAL. In re: HOSHO, I believe that the issue is that an oiler design may have been taken as a starting point, but language translation problems may have led to a belief that the vessel was built on a hull that had already been laid down as an oiler, rather than the carrier design being completed before the keel was laid on the vessel, which is what seems to have been the case. Thus the suggestion of hull similiarities. I don't think YORKTOWN (CV-5's) design could have been very well based on a US cruiser design though, because no US cruiser designs of nearly 20,000 tons existed. Similarly, CV-4's hull design is not really a close match for any US cruiser design, so I think she is indeed truly a 'from-the-keel-up' carrier. HERMES' armament may match a light cruiser's, but her hull lines do not come close to any British cruiser design either. All in all I think the claims of each country of these ships as their first designed-from-keel-up as carriers are true, with HOSHO simply being more conveniently adapted from oiler lines, but still being designed from keel-up as a carrier - a difference that makes no difference is no difference. Brooks A. Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Randy Ward Subject: Starting ship modeling club? OK, with all of the talk of IPMS, I'm going to revisit an old dilemna... I live about 35 miles from the Atlantic Ocean. New England has a fairly large number of people. There are two IPMS chapters within a 30-minute drive. One caters heavily to aircraft kits and calls itself an airplane club, the other caters only to model car kits. I joined the first one for 6 months, brought some scratchbuilt boat models, and felt totally like an outsider. 90% of what was talked about was planes. There is an R/C boat club about an hour and a quarter south of me, but they haven't been that friendly or open in my attendance at two of their events. They only seem interested in operating their models, not soliciting new members. I thought about starting my own club. But, I believe IPMS requires several (12? 15?) already-members to start a chapter - more than the number of ship modelers I know in the surrounding states. 'Haven't found any other related clubs within quite a drive. The local hobby shop doesn't know of any. Is there any other organization in this area I don't know about? It seems nuts to be in the middle of so much nautical history and there's no interest in model ships! Suggestions are most appreciated... Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume