Subject: SMML VOL 2216 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:32:24 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HELP! HELP! Irwin 30 drawings needed desperately 2: Competitions and judging 3: Clubs and Competitions 4: Washington Navy Yard Area -WARNING 5: Answers 6: Missiles 7: Model shows in Chicago area & LSD models 8: Re: To Donald Haugh and the SMML list 9: Re: Wisteria 10: Re: Dennis Disbrow's Walk to the Washington Navy Yard Museum 11: Re: Starting ship modeling club? 12: Re: Ship modelers in general and IPMS/USA 13: Re: Hobby Shops and sights in DC 14: Re: hull of the s.s. united states 15: Painting Fairmiles and R Boats 16: Re: Model Club 17: Taubmans Plan Service -- a service update 18: Ship Plans ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: " David and Alison Muir" Subject: HELP! HELP! Irwin 30 drawings needed desperately I desperately and urgently need a plan and side view of an Irwin 30 sailboat...and any info you may have on its underwater shape(s). Also need an answer as to why folk leave everthing to the last minute...self included, lol...is there a law to cover this or is it simply a variation on Sods or Murphys Laws? Regards and TIA, David M ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Robert Lockie Subject: Competitions and judging Hi As the old question of judging has surfaced again, I thought I would chip in with my experiences of organising, entering and judging at UK shows. I have also entered (twice) and judged (three times) at the AMPS show in the US since 2001. Having spent many months (years in some cases) with a model in progress while I waited on getting hold of some vital piece of information that would enable me to finish it accurately (even though nobody else would even notice it had been incorporated!), it can indeed be galling to come home with less than you expected from a show. However, judges are human and they may not spot some vital piece of work you have done (ironically, particularly if it has been done well as it may be indistinguishable from a kit part), and in any case they may have legitimate reasons for dinging your entry if there is something you missed. Submitting to external criticism is a good way to improve but it is not for everyone. In any case, judges can be spectacularly inconsistent from one show to the next; I recall a few years ago building a tank (it had modified parts from five kits plus a load of scratchbuilt tools etc.) and entering it in our internal branch competition, where it was promptly unplaced in a class of about five or six models. Judging was by popular vote of those present (under 20 of them). A few months later, the same model (which had had no work done to it since) was entered in the UK National comps of the same organisation, which happened to be run by the same branch. Again with popular voting, although with more there to do the judging (including the ones from the previous competition) this time, it won its class against twice as many entries including the ones which had\beaten it in the branch competition. Since my certificates all end up in a pile in a cupboard anyway, I wasn't that bothered but it does illustrate the inconsistencies in human perception. A couple of years ago I attended, as a visitor (not organiser, judge or entrant) a large UK show and when I wandered round the tables after judging had finished, there was a chap who had built an enormous diorama of a U-boot in dock. He was protesting to anyone who would listen that the judges were blind, incompetent etc. because they had awarded a much smaller (and less complex) diorama the first prize in the class which he felt he deserved. I did not spend as long as the judges probably did in studying his masterpiece but did spot a few flaws which in my view were significant. Others to whom I have spoken also spotted some. However, he was adopting such an aggressive tone that any case I felt he might have had was seriously diminished. He was, in my view, taking the whole thing far too seriously and the only thing about the whole show (I was there for two days) that sticks in my mind still is his attitude. My experience at the AMPS shows and as a judge at the UK Trucks and Tracks show suggests to me that there is a good case for adopting a gold/silver/bronze medal approach, where there are unlimited numbers of medals which can be awarded and if a class of 50 models contains 50 great ones, they can all receive recognition in the form of a gold medal. If there are no worth entries, no gold (or other!) medals need be awarded. It overcomes the farcical situation I did see where two excellent models built by SMMLies (a heavily detailed 1/700 battleship and a scratchbuilt 1/350 nuclear cruiser) found themselves competing against each other and only one gold was awarded as it was gold for first, silver for second etc.. Across the table was a model which even the builder would probably admit was not the best on display (gaps, mould lines and a rather rough paint job) which won a gold because it was the only entry in the class. I think the lesson to draw from all this is that while it is nice to win recognition, nobody else actually remembers what you won or didn't win most of the time and in any case, it isn't really important. There is no multi-million dollar contract to be gained, no international fame and nobody in the real world really cares. It is supposed to be a hobby and if you enjoy doing it, that's what it is about. If you enjoy entering competitions and want to win, then focus on what you need to do to win (tip - go for the classes everyone else avoids; in military modelling this means artillery and large scale scratchbuilt trucks). Of course, this approach no longer works if a medals system is adopted as the thing has to be up to scratch anyway (another point in its favour, I think). If you enjoy the challenge of solving the problem and getting everything as accurate as you can (that's me) then don't panic if you can't get it finished in time as there will be another comp along next year (or next decade). If you can't stand the stress or criticism of your pet project (and I can understand why - it can be disturbing if someone spots something in a few seconds that you missed in several months of building), don't enter the comps in the first place. It really isn't worth it! Robert Lockie Swindon UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Stephen Varhegyi" Subject: Clubs and Competitions Hi There I've been a member of a club here in Sydney for about 11 years. Before I joined the club I used to build models just for fun. They weren't anything special and I used to churn out one per weekend, but hey, I enjoyed it. After joining a club, I found every time I sat down to work on something, I always had in the back of my mind that some anal-retent was going to pick up every little fault. This made for some very nerve-wracking projects. I guess the perfectionist in me also contributed to this stress. It seemed the more successes I had (and there were quite a few), the more the pressure was on. If you're in a club you must have met the guy who's got every book and knows the placement and type of every rivet, doohickey and thing-amajig. Despite this you've never seen a completed model from the guy, yet he'll come over every time and tell you exactly what you did wrong. TIP: This guy is not a modeler, he's a librarian in need of a laxative. On the positive side I learned alot from other members and there were some nice guys there. In the 11 years my modeling skills and knowledge base have improved by about 3000%. I'm much more critical of my own work. I now find that I don't build as much as I used to, despite having a garage full of unbuilt and half built kits. Occasionally I get the bug and finish something off. I go fishing with my son much more now and play my guitar more often. To tell you the truth I've just about had it with clubs. The politics, the jealousy, the petty BS and competitive pressure that goes on. My new interest is 1:700 scale ships, FOR FUN. Thank god for a forum like SMML where decent guys meet to discuss their common hobby in a constructive way. Modelers of the world UNITE! Ain't this sposed to be fun? What is your take on clubs? Do you have an opinion? Steve Varhegyi PS I'm working on a 1:220 scale model of Neuschwanstein Castle at the moment, which is a nice break. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Washington Navy Yard Area -WARNING Having just finished 3 weeks at the Yard I strongly advise that you check with the Yard security before trying to visit. But even more importantly, the area is so crime ridden and drug infested that we were constantly warned to be vigilant, not venture out alone, not after dark, wait inside the gate, don't walk from the Metro to the yard, etc. Do not leave even small pocket change visible in your parked car. If you drive, lock all doors and be wary at lights and stop signs. One afternoon they passed the word to remain inside the building because suspected drug activity was taking place right outside and the cops would be taking care of it as soon as they got around to it. Welcome to our Nation's Capital! We hope you enjoy your visit. Do try to hit the National Archives in College Park; much safer. (P.S. I am a native Washingtonian, having been born IN the District, and I remember what it USED to be like. Including sailing my ship models in the Tidal basin. I was Specifications Engineer for the design of the Metro rail system.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Answers To: AAA Hobby Supply No, the query about the first American aircraft carrier built as such from the keel up was not a trick question. It was designed to do exactly what it did do, namely to educe information from the rich wellspring of knowledge from SMML, to the benefit of us all. The inclusion of the Japanese and the British carriers was a bonus for us. And that serves to further expose my lack of knowledge, but may bring a response from SMML, and therefore I am wondering aloud about other countries' first such built carriers (if any), such as France, Germany, Russia, and even maybe "etc.". Incidentally, you may recall my controversial question a couple of years or so ago, about the world's first aircraft carrier (here defined as a vessel used solely for the launching and retrieval of aircraft). It was a river barge converted by the North during the Civil War as a platform for launching, tethering, and retrieval of artillery observation balloons. Now that was a bit of a trick question, for lighter-than-air balloons are still aircraft. It was an Army project, not a Navy venture, but the Navy saw the potential and developed it for heavier-than-air engine powered machines when they were developed. Now if I can only get some action from SMML about Henry Ford's WW 1 Eagle (read, ugly ducklings) Boats. C'mon, guys. Somebody's got to have something for us!!! Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Missiles To: Prlhobo What's a Missile? Sorry, SAM, but many of us old guys don't know anything about these new fangled things. But I bet you will get some response from the younger SMML people. I hope so. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ANDYCPORETSNIPE Subject: Model shows in Chicago area & LSD models WHERE CAN I FIND SHIP MODEL SHOWS AROUND THE CHICAGO AREA? DOES ANY ONE KNOW OF A SHIP MODEL OF A LSD., NEWER CLASS LIKE LSD-29 PLYMOUTH ROCK? HARRY T. ANDERSEN RETIRED NAVY MAN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR Subject: Re: To Donald Haugh and the SMML list >> I would like to offer my congratulations to all concerned about this thread. To all the list members who offered measured and knowledgeable input, and to Mr. Haugh who took the opportunity to learn something of value and did so, Well Done. In the past year, several potential controversies have been avoided in this same way, by all correspondents learning from the discussion, instead of noisily defending their positions. It makes me proud to be associated with you. << Gary Here here!! Rusty White - #20181 IPMS/USA Pres. Candidate ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "david angelo" Subject: Re: Wisteria The Wisteria was a converted Liberty ship, the superstructure was completly changed. There was a 3 level deck house most of the length of the ship, with a widened funnel to accomodate the required 12" Red Cross symbol. Extra boats, ect. A picture of the sister ship St Olaf can be found in Sawyer & Mitchell's book "The Liberety Ships" HTH David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ron Subject: Re: Dennis Disbrow's Walk to the Washington Navy Yard Museum The Washington Navy Yard is right at the edge of the nasty part of DC, cross the Anacostia and you're in the heart of nastyville. Don't be there after dark if you can avoid it. There used to be a Metrobus stop right at the gate. I used to work at NRL and that's between the Potomac and 295, do not get lost in that part of town. It wasn't unusual to leave the base and as you go under 295 to the on ramp see the Naval District Police with 4-5 locals up against the wall, it averaged 3 of 5 days each week. This on the main access road to Anacostia Naval Air Station, Bolling Air Force Base and Naval Research Lab, all secure bases closed to the public. Naval District Police have jurisdiction in that part of town either on or off base. Too bad NRL is closed to the public, there's some neat stuff to see. The bulding where 16" BB rifles were made and now houses Naval Center for Space Technology (where the first two modules of the ISS were built ours and the Russian which was completely wired there by us) and there are some cool old spy satellites on display. Odd things like the "break table" at the loading bay doors of that building which is a plywood circle about six feet across resting on a single link of anchor chain...it's almost waist high. Other odd bits of old Naval hardware in odd places. Even if you could "just visit" you couldn't have any sort of electronic implant because both NRL and Bolling are major antenna farms and the rf emitted plays hell with implants. Worst part of NRL is it's location, the literal rectum of DC because the only thing farther south is the sewage plant and it gets ripe in summer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Randy Ward Subject: Re: Starting ship modeling club? Thanks to everyone who offered information and advice on the club dilemna. I'm in southern New Hampshire. This query has resulted in finding two other ship modelers within 10 miles or so, so I'm grateful for that! Southern New England is a bit far to drive. It's about a 2-hour drive to the CT coast. >> join a ship modelers' club. There at least 5 of them I am aware of in New England, << I know of four, all at least an hour away. But, I guess I may have to drive to get there. (Can you tell I avoid Boston traffic as much as possible?) >> you might want to join the Nautical Research Guild. << Yes, have been a member for about 2 years. I got to go to the meeting in Rockville, MD, but missed last year's due to tight finances and being unemployed. I really gained some respect for these guys. They're good! >> I found myself asking you why don't "we" do it over the Internet!? << I'm game! >> Grace and peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, bless you and your beloved family forever. << Thanks, Gus. He has indeed blessed us. >> there has to be 5 IPMS numbers involved. << I guess this implies that you don't have to affiliate with the closest chapter, as you do in some organizations. Correct? >> my hometown of Methuen, Mass. << Hi,Rod! I'm just up Route 3 about 7 miles or so! Exit 4 in Nashua! >> I've belonged to a number of clubs and "most" have an emphasis, but all seemed to be open to me as a person and the kits I build << I had tried the local IPMS chapter several years ago, and they bragged that they were an airplane club, and didn't care for anything else. Then, I heard that that had changed, and that they were open, but 6 months of attending showed that they were still "airplanes rule, others drool"... Thanks again, folks! May your styrene bin stay full! 8-) Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RLapadura Subject: Re: Ship modelers in general and IPMS/USA I'm very happy to say that our chapter(New Jersey IPMS)has whole-heartedly accepted ship modelers in the fold. I agree that there are only one or two "Ship-only" builders, but we have at least 7 or 8 members out of 50+ who consistantly build ships, and at least six or seven more who have either starting or looking to start their first ship project. I believe much of that interest is directly attributed to the number of experienced builders who judge at IPMS shows. Hanging out with these guys has given me an appreciation of many different aspects of the hobby I would probably have not gotten involved in, ie Ships! While I may never build a figure or a race car, I can certainly appreciate a fine example of one when I see it; and much of this is an extension of being involved in judging. While I agree that IPMS is biased torward the more numerous aircraft & armor modelers, it still make plenty of room (or should) for all the other displines. A good, diverse, chapter is worth it's weight in GOLD; when you find one (and you will), you'll understand what I mean. As for me, it was ONLY with the fantastic support of the other shipbuilders in the club that I had the nerve to try. And now, I'm one of the guys that the perspective shipbuilders come to! Bottom line, a good model is a good model...no matter the subject. Bob LaPadura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bill Pasenelli" Subject: Re: Hobby Shops and sights in DC To the gentleman who is going to DC -- Nostalgic plastic will close on June 22. Also a short drive from DC is the Naval Academy with an impressive number of well done ship models. I am unsure about access post 9/11. I can also (as has been mentioned) say that the Navy Yard and its museum is well worth a visit. The area is a bit dicey as also mentioned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: hull of the s.s. united states Hi SMMLies, The SS United States is still in Phily. don't know what the date is to tow her away but i will post it when i find out. If you have any question about her I probably can answer them. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Daniel Taylor" Subject: Painting Fairmiles and R Boats Dear All I have two projects under way which could do with your input. First off, A 1/72 scale Fairmile B. It is being finished as one of the type on the St Nazaire Raid (Op Chariot), an opportunity to try out the WEM Mountbatten Pink. However, I am not sure of the deck colour. I have studied Mr Lamberts tome on the Fairmiles but would like to know if anyone has done this specific bit of thinking before. Item two: The German Raumboot. I have a hull for the vessel well under way, again in 1/72, and am on the lookout for information on camouflage patterns. Ideally I would like to portray a splinter pattern. If anyone can suggest a reference I would be most grateful. Many thanks Dan Taylor (Kent UK) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: billkaja Subject: Re: Model Club The Marine Modelers of New England is a RC scale ship model club, based in Medway, Mass. We move around-- we have our monthly runs in Cohasset, Acton, Worcester, Wilmington, Charleston, and Medway. Contact me if you want more information. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: EDWARD GRUNE Subject: Taubmans Plan Service -- a service update Hello Smellies! A few weeks back I posted seeking information on means of contacting Abe Taubman regarding some plans which I had ordered but had not received. He had not responded to my snail mail and I was looking for an alternative means of contacting him. After some help in contacting the Taubmans that I received from Jeff Herne, I found out that it seemed that there was a breakdown in communication between the "Friends of Abe" online ordering website and Mr Taubman - and that my order had never been forwarded to him. I reordered - and I soon was informed by Mr Taubman that my item was out of stock and wouldn't be backordered. I thanked him and decided that I would try again, perhaps in the Fall after my purchases at the Nats had hit my credit card and had been paid down. This weekend I received a phone call from Mr Taubman. He had located a copy of the plans and wanted to know if I still wanted them. It is due to arrive this week. Thank you Mr Taubman, the service you provide both your old and your new customers is why you are known as one of the grand old gentlemen of the hobby. Regards Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Dean, Tom" Subject: Ship Plans Hi Gang: Does anyone know of a source for model plans of the RESTIGOUCHE CLASS DDE, preferably as built. Vanguard Model Marine only has plans for the ST LAURENTs in both as built and DDH configurations. Thanks Tom Dean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume