Subject: SMML VOL 2221 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:26:08 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: "other" carriers 2: Re: "Other" carriers 3: Re: Early 20th Century Ships' Registry 4: Re: What is Britain? 5: Re: Mooring the Scharnhorst 6: Re: Thai Carrier 7: England or Britain 8: Re: Richelieu camo colors 9: Re: Athens hobby shops 10: Re: John Collins' comments ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "William H. Shuey" Subject: Re: "other" carriers >> Thank you for the alphabetical list of aircraft carriers of other nations. It was indeed a revelation. I had no idea there were so many. But I still have trouble with Thailand having (or needing) a navy extensive enough to include an aircraft carrier. What do they have for operational aircraft? << In reply to Mr. Brown: The Thai ship will operate several helicopters and for the "sharp end" I understand they have bought Sea Harriers. William Shuey Baltimore, MD, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: "Other" carriers To Franklyn Brown You will have to put me amongst the uninitiated as I have not heard of Thailand having a carrier. Perhaps some other SMML subscribers will clarify. As to the difference between England and Britain. England is part of Great Britain which includes Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland (Ulster). The armed forces are all "British". The Queen is Queen of Britain which automatically makes her Queen of England and the other constituents of Great Britain (as well as Canada, Australia and other nations which recognize her as Head of State). In other words "England" is not a synonym for "Great Britain" just as "New York", "California" or any other State is not synonymous with "United States". In WW 2 Hitler constantly ref to "England" as the enemy and there was a German patriotic song "We are Marching Against England" while Germany was, in fact, at war with Great Britain. Australia, Canada and India (even before independence)maintained separate navies from the RN, hence HMAS, HMCS and HMIN for ships of the Royal Australian, Canadian and Indian Navies. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Mianowski Subject: Re: Early 20th Century Ships' Registry >> As an ardent miniaturist I have, over the years, collected merchant ship plans from different sources. I have over five hundred 1:1200 plans and others that I have reduced to this scale. Plans vary in quality and detail. The best are by John Bowen with Reg Carpenter a close second. Others have been culled from technical journals and the like and reduced accordingly. I have them listed alphabetically by ship and company. What specifically are you looking for? << I can't really be more specific than my original post. I'm just looking for general merchant ship plans for ships that sailed in the 1st half of the 20th century. These would be for R/C craft & I can re-scale if I have to. I'm just looking for something less common from a modeling perspective, but perhaps more common in terms of what was sailing around during the time period (does that make any sense at all?). Liberty Ships, Victory Ships, T-2 Tankers are all over the place - I'd like something a little more unique. Ships of countries other than USA are typically even more rare. First, I guess I'd need: - A list of ships, if such a thing is available - A source(s) of plans for those ships that I select. Thanks, JM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Roger Chesneau Subject: Re: What is Britain? Franklyn: You will wish you hadn't asked, because it's hugely complicated and somewhat baffling, but here goes . . . The British Isles are the group of islands off the coast of Europe, two main ones, and scores of small ones. The larger of the two is called Great Britain, or simply Britain It is made up of three countries - England, Scotland (the northern bit) and Wales (the western bit). Incidentally, the word "Great" does not, as many think, mean anything jingoistic, but "inclusive" (i.e., it includes three countries). For political purposes, the three countries can be treated as one: its government is based in the Houses of Parliament in London, which makes laws, raises finance, decides foreign policy, etc, affecting all three. Having said that, there is a Scottish Parliament (which has minor powers, pertaining to Scotland only), and there is a Welsh Assembly (even fewer powers, relating to Wales only). The other main island is much more complex. It is two parts, Ireland (or Eire), self-governing since Home Rule in 1922, and Northern Ireland, which is the bit in the north-east and whose inhabitants - at least the majority of them - opted for continuing affiliation with the rest of Britain in terms of their government. I am not going down the political road any further than this! England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland together are known as the United Kingdom, because there is one head of state - at the moment Queen Elizabeth II - for this entire territory. She has no position in Ireland proper. Just to illustrate how beastly we are to foreigners, a person who was born in, and lives in, England, will be British passport holder, but the passport is made out in the name of the United Kingdom. Sort that one out! By and large - and this is, admittedly, a big generalisation -Scots tend to think of themselves as Scots first and British second; the Welsh usually think of themselves as Welsh first and British second; but the English regard themselves as British first and English second. I will now duck the bullets! Regards all Roger P.S. No, I'm not a Frenchman! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: billkaja Subject: Re: Mooring the Scharnhorst If the ship is in a regular anchorage, it is probably moored to a mooring buoy, instead of using her own anchors. A mooring buoy is a large round float, whish is attached to a permanent (well set) anchor. When a ship moors to a buoy, it detaches one of it's anchor chains from the anchor, and the chain is shackled to the buoy. The ship's anchor remains fixed in the usual place. When a ship moors to a buoy, usually one one is used. At least in the anchorages I've been to. Norwegian fjords may be different - I suspect the Germans didn't want the ship swinging to and fro with the tides and currents. There are some good resources that might help you in regards to basic seamanship. "Modern Seamanship" by Knight is a good book. You can also find US Navy educational books. Try your local library or used book store. Hope this helps, Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Robert Mosher" Subject: Re: Thai Carrier It's a Spanish-built 'harrier' carrier - I believe it has 8 Harriers plus helicopters. I have also heard that it doesn't deploy often. I am sure others can provide more details more quickly but I can look up some of the other details and get back to you. Robert A. Mosher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Rule" Subject: England or Britain >> To this poor old unknower, the Australian and the Canadian (and at one time, the Indian) navies are considered part of the Royal Navy. We in the United States often, and in my case at least, unintentionally, blur the distinction between England and Britain. I, for one, would appreciate your clarification. For instance, is England considered a nation? If so, what is Britain? Etc.<< The British Isles consisted of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. In 1603 the King of Scotland also became the King of England (The Union of the Crowns). In 1705 the parliaments were joined. From that point onward the whole bunch were known collectively as Great Britain. In 1917 Ireland, or all except Northern Ireland departed the fold to become Eire. As far as the armed forces are concerned they are British. It is very offensive to Scots, Welsh and the people of Northern Ireland to refer to anything British as English. The term United Kingdom also refers to the same collection of nations. Sincerely, John Rule ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Sanartjam Subject: Re: Richelieu camo colors Hi Sandy, The book "Richelieu" by Sarnet and Le Vaillant has color renderings of the Richelieu's camo schemes, but does not as far as I can see name the colors. "Le Cuirasse Richelieu" by Robert Dumas has black and white plans of the ship in the schemes and names the colors. After the initial wild pattern was painted out, Dumas has her in a large hull panel painted in ""bleu violet," the funnel and turrets are said to be in "bleu gris brun," and the rest of the ship is in "gris bleu clair." The next scheme is similar except that the entire hull (except for the part above the line of the weather deck) is painted, this time in "gris bleu moyen," the funnel and secondary turrets are in "gris fonce," and the rest of the ship is in "gris clair." The next scheme after that is the same except that the secondary turrets are repainted in "gris clair." I will not attempt to translate the colors into known English names, although you probably know that "gris" is gray, "bleu" is blue, and "brun" is brown. Any help from our Francophone members? Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Evangelos Aragiannis" Subject: Re: Athens hobby shops Hi, if you walk along Ippokratous Str. (that is downtown) you'll find several. The best are "Kalfakis" and "Plastimodelismo" that are closer to the south end of the street. Good luck ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: raisingirl Subject: Re: John Collins' comments hi all -- John Collins wrote: >> I would like to thank Ralph Nardone for his compliments about my USS Kidd a week or so ago. It is worthy praise from a modeler of his caliber. << Ralph appreciates it -- as do I. But we weren't doing anything extraordinary, John -- it truly is a beautiful model and you should be very proud of it. I wanna build ship models like that one when I grow up (if I grow up, that is)! :) Jodie Peeler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume