Subject: SMML VOL 2237 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:25:20 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Essex 2: Re: B-17F (110) 3: USS Essex 4: Re: USS Essex 5: Re: USS Essex 6: USS Essex 7: Re: USS ESSEX 8: Essex 9: Re: Essex carrier name derivation 10: USS Essex 11: Re: B-17F-110 12: Re: Oldest Ship in Commission 13: Re: B-17 F and B-24 14: Re: USS ESSEX 15: B-17 & B-24 Bombers 16: Re: Essex & B-17 17: Re: Deck Colours 18: Re: B-17F-110-BO 19: Re: B-17F 20: Re: USS Essex 21: USS Ronald Reagan sailors get an education about carrier's namesake 22: Camouflage ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Ship modelling in the Sydney area this coming week -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/400 Prinz Eugen/Blucher/Hipper PE set on the way! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Daniel Kurtz Subject: Re: USS Essex >> I see where the names of the Essex class carriers came from , battles etc, but where did the name ESSEX come from, the only Essex I know is the country to the SE of London... << Battles or distinguished earlier ships, as were all carriers (with only a few exceptions) up until the USN discarded all poetry in naming these ships with the Kennedy. The first Essex was a converted merchant ship that served with the Continental Navy during the Revolutionary War. There were subsequently several others that preceded CV-9. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jim Chaconas" Subject: Re: B-17F (110) To: Doug Marrel Doug, even tho this site is predominately a ship site, here are a few answers to your question; There were very little differences between "F's" by block number, which identified Mfgr. in this case Boeing; 84 A/C, Kits: !/48 scale; Revelogramagawa, an F, Memphis Belle. 1/72 scale; Academy, 1; Hasagawa 4+, All are available thru web hobbyshops. Hope this helps, also the B-24 at Ploesti, was most likely a "D" model. Best Regards, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: rdauteuil Subject: USS Essex >>I see where the names of the Essex class carriers came from , battles etc, but where did the name ESSEX come from, the only Essex I know is the country to the SE of London...<< There is an Essex, Massachusetts, which is about 20 miles north of Boston. Also, there is Essex County, where the aforementioned town is situated. Perhaps that could be the origin? Of course, a lot of Massachusetts towns were named after English towns. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Kevin Woodruff Subject: Re: USS Essex Built by the citizens of Essex County, Massachusetts, who presented her to the U.S. government, the first USS Essex was commissioned under command of Captain Edward Preble. On her first voyage in 1800, during the Quasi-War with France, Essex helped convoy a fleet of Dutch East Indiamen through the Indian Ocean. In 1801, she was one of several ships sent to the Mediterranean to contain the Barbary corsairs harassing American shipping. She sailed first under Captain William Bainbridge and then under Captain James Barron. Following the war, she was laid up from 1806 to 1809. Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Richa5011 Subject: Re: USS Essex The nomenclature for naming aircraft carriers in the USN has changed some over the years, but the WW II CVs and CVLs were named either for battles or to commemorate earlier USN ships Lexington, Saratoga, Yorktown, Bennington, Ticonderoga, Oriskany, Lake Champlain, San Jacinto, Coral Sea and Midway were all named for battles. Ranger, Enterprise, Hornet, Wasp, Essex, Intrepid, Hancock, Franklin, Independence, etc. were all named for earlier USN ships...specifically ships of the Revolutionary War and 1812. The later Lexington, Yorktown, Hornet and Wasp were named to commorate the earlier carriers sunk. Essex was a 36 gun frigate launched in 1799. She was taken in neutral waters by HMS Pheobe and Cherub in January 1814. Essex later served as a prison hulk in Kingston Jamaica until 1837. The exceptions to the Battles and Ships nomenclature of that era were the Langley which was named for Samual P. Langley, Franklin D. Roosevelt named for the President and Shangri La named in honor of FDR's response to a question about where the Doolittle raid had been launched. Naturally, in more recent years, things have become much more political. Nat Richards ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: USS Essex Hi Colin, Like the Royal Navy, the American Navy tends to re-use names. The USS Essex was a frigate which fought in the War of 1812, there have been others since, Including a riverine Ironclad during the American Civil War, But I believe she was the first. Our esteemed collegues may know better than I. Essex is also a county in a number of States, including Massachusetts where that Essex was built. In the same class of Carriers was the USS Hancock, also named for an American Frigate, this one during the American Revolution. Yorktown II in this class was named for the Carrier Yorktown sunk at the Battle of Midway, and The Kearsage was named for the Steam Sloop of War which sunk the CSS Alabama off of Cherbourg during the American Civil War, there was also a Battleship which carried that name in the early 1900's. okay, so it was a long answer but, Basically, most of those ships were named after earlier US Navy ships. Take Care, Rich Sweeney ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Re: USS ESSEX Carriers were named for battles or historically famous navy ships. Others that come to mind are Bon Homme Richard, Kearsarge, Ranger, and of course, Enterprise. Hank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ron Subject: Essex Off the top of my head...Not necessarily named for battles. Yorktown, Hornet, Lexington and Wasp were named after previous carriers that been sunk in honor of those ships. Essex herself may have been named after a Rev. War battle or simply one of many towns of that name in the original 13 colonies. Franklin, Bennington, Randolf and Hancock are named after Rev. War era people. During the Rev. War there were American vessels named Intrepid, Hornet, Wasp and Bon Homme Richard (there have been other ships with those names since the Rev. War). Yorktown, Lexington, Bunker Hill, Ticonderoga, Princeton, Lake Champlain and Valley Forge were all battles or major events during the Rev. War and/or War of 1812. Kearsarge is named for a previous US ship from the Civil War and Antietam was a battle that is still the bloodiest day in American history from that same war. Leyte, Tarawa, Shangri-La and Philippine Sea refer to events early in WWII (Shangri-La was CV-8 Hornet's code name for the Doolittle raid). Boxer and Oriskany I don't know for sure, IIRC there was an American naval officer named Boxer but it could also prefer to the Boxer rebellion; there is a town in New York called Oriskany but that's all I know of. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Essex carrier name derivation The Essex was not named after a battle. She; like the Enterprise, Hornet, Wasp, Intrepid, Bon Homme Richard, and others were named after earlier ships. According to the DANFS entry on the ESSEX (CV-9) she was the fourth ship to bear that name. Other Essexes include the 32 gun frigate built in 1799, the ironclad gunboat of the American Civil War, and a sailing sloop that served from 1876 to 1927. The LHD-2 contines the proud name of Essex in the modern US Navy Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Kip Klish" Subject: USS Essex In answer to Colin Ritchie's question about the origin of the name Essex: Essex is a traditional USN ship name whose use dates back to 1799, when the people of Essex County and Salem, MA, presented a frigate of that name to the navy.; the second USS Essex was an ironclad steamer, originally a ferry, that was converted to a warship in 1861. The third USS Essex was a wooden hulled screw steamer; commissioned initially in 1876; she had a long career seving in her latter years as a training ship until 1920. The USS Essex CV9 was the 4th ship to bear the name, and the name is in current use on the 5th USS Essex, LHD-2. Not all carriers were named after battles, a number of others were also continued the practice of re-using earlier names, among them - CV11 was the 4th, Intrepid, CV7 was the 8th Wasp and CV18 was the 9th Wasp, CV8 was the 7th Hornet, CV4 was the 6th Ranger and CV61 the 7th, CV21 the 5th Boxer, CVN65 is the 8th Enterprise, etc. Kearsarge CV33 (3rd) and Independence, CVL22 and CV 62 (4th and 5th) also fall into this category. This isn't a complete list - just enough examples to illustrate this former practice, given that aircraft carriers are now named after presidents, congressmen, and five star military heros and the traditional names and battle names formerly given to carriers go to cruisers and amphibs. Kip Klish ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Lorin Hart" Subject: Re: B-17F-110 In response to the search by Doug Marrel for a B-17F-110; I am assuming a -F110-BO here, you are probably out of luck for a straight-from-box kit. "Mirage" has announced a 1/48 -F (as well as a -G, but no details). In MY opinion, the best place to start for any Big-Tail B-17, is "Monogram's" B-17-G. It is a mid-series, roughly equivalent to a -G-35-BO. Very easy to work and modify, assuming you have information and a vacuum forming device of some sort. For the Ploesti raid B-24, your choices are much easier. All the aircraft were -D series aircraft (or externally equivalent). Again, the best place to start (again, in MY opinion) is "Monogram". Their B-24 is almost as old as the B-17 and has several problems, but it is very workable, and an excellent presentation model can be made. "Fine Scale Modeler" magazine has run articles on each aircraft, author/Dentist Paul Budzick comes to mind, and there is a large volume of information available on each aircraft. Whatever you chose, I send my wishes for you good fortune! Lorin Hart ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: HGYL Subject: Re: Oldest Ship in Commission HMS "Victory" is the OLDEST SHIP in commission as far as I know. USS "Constitution" is the oldest ship in commission STILL AFLOAT. These two qualifying words are often omitted. Both of these fine ships have been decommissioned at various times, again as far as I know. Regards to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Re: B-17 F and B-24 In 1/72 scale, Academy do a series of both aircraft. Monogram does a 1/48 B-24 and Revell did do a B-17F (Monogram's B-17 was the G). A search of the Hannants website should give you plenty of scope for decals, both on specific aircraft and generic decals for codes, serials and national insignia. Good luck, Chris Hughes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: USS ESSEX The ESSEX is named after the ship (named after the ship, named after the ship and so forth), a Frigate in the US Navy back in early 1800's. That ship was named after ESSEX county which includes most of the Massachusetts' north shore, and whose residents contributed much of the money (no federal taxes back then) to construct her. Of course the county itself was likely named after the one in England, as things tended to be back in the day. Best regards Fritz K. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: GUSDOCVILL Subject: B-17 & B-24 Bombers Marrel, Depends on what scale and how accurate you want the planes to be. Then, what reference do you have? If you have the knowledge to make your own decals -- you have the best of all worlds!! Otherwise, Hasegawa has some good B-17 E and F kits in 1/72 scale. Minicraft has the different B-24s in 1/72 scale. Only 1/48 scale B-17 I am aware of is the Revell Memphis Belle. Monogram makes a B-17G and B-24. As I go back and forth between 1/35 armor, aircraft (1/72 & 1/48) and ships (1/700), am willing to assist as you request. Hope that helps! Grace and peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, bless you and your beloved family forever. Gus Semper Fi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: Essex & B-17 Hi Guys Concerning the naming of the USS ESSEX. It's named for a town and county in north eastern Massachuetts near the Atlantic Ocean. According to the Rand McNally 2001 Road Atlas the county has 693,000 people and the town has 1507 people living there. However not all Essex class carriers were named for battles. 3 were named for people. Franklin CV-13 for Benjamin Franklin, Hancock CV-19 for John Hancock, Randolph CV-15 for Peyton Randolph all were involved with the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence. The Lexington CV-16 was orginally named Cabot for Giovanni Cabot for the Italian navigator who working for King Henry VII discovered North America in 1497. For Doug Marrell the B-17F-110 series were produced at 2 different factories so try the Revell-Monogram B-17G kit. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: WRPRESSINC Subject: Re: Deck Colours I looked through my collection of Type One Hunt plans with following result:- Part of the forecastle deck is Semtex. The upper deck is Semtex, including almost all of the waist area, which means that there are no bare steel areas except along the centre line. Part of the quarterdeck is steel. The aft deckhouse and the two platforms have Semtex. The compass platform and the Signal deck have Corticene. As newly laid, the color of semtex was in almost every case a light tan. After a short period the material gathered dirt, salt, oil and lots of general crap. What you ended up with was a darker tone of grey, a tone which was often darker that the dark grey paint that was applied to the ajacent steel areas, the latter having lightened up due to fading and salt etc, etc. As a general rule Semtex was left unpainted. There were exceptions for a variety of reasons. You will find more on this subject in the four volumes of Camouflage in the Warships Perspectives series along with many visual references. I can't write anymore. I need a drinkie. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: David Sepos Subject: Re: B-17F-110-BO Can open, worms all over. I'm not trying to be smart but, you don't have a picture do you? This is not a simple question. There were only about 6,000 F's built and there were a bunch of minor differences between blocks. This is the quick version, not necessarily 100%, but you can get the big picture and do some research. If you are not interested in total accuracy, then just build the Academy B-17F kit in 1/72, if that's the scale you want to build. I'll speak to 1/72 only. First, it would have had an astrodome on the nose which was present on all but the earliest F's, Academy's F in 1/72 has it. As for the other F nose features, the "cheek" mounted 50's appeared after block 55 BO, however, there were several different arrangements on various blocks, as some of this work may have been performed at the depot level before the planes were issued to combat units. There were possibly 6 different variations. This also doesn't take into account field modifications. Finally, some of the late block F's had chin turrets like the G's. I believe that they were mostly built by Lockheed Vega, but am not so sure that other manufacturers didn't get in on the change too. A lot of people are not aware of this. Externally, it is sometimes very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish a late F from an early G unless you can see the SN. Aircraft built during the peak production periods were anything but consistent. Things were changing fast. Bid specs were one thing and what actually happened on the production line was another. Field mods, especially defensive ones, were worked into the production aircraft as soon as the engineering and parts became available, or items were left off to be completed at the depot level before issuance. If it had the chin turret, I think Academy did make a B-17G, although I have not seen one to know if it has the Cheyenne turret, which would not be correct...... Enough! HTH Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Stephen Varhegyi" Subject: Re: B-17F Monogram did a B17F which is still around the hobby shops. It's a pretty old kit with raised panel lines and alot of filler needed. Once you get over these hurdles though it makes into a reasonable facsimile. It comes with the markings for Memphis Belle funnily enough. No doubt you'll want to make it up as your uncle's aircraft. If you hang out long enough, there's a rumor going around that Tamiya might be releasing one in 1:48, which would really be something, judging by their recent releases. Whether this eventuates is anyone's guess. Chances are though that it might be a B-17G. Monogram also make a B-24H and B-24J in 1:24 scale. I don't know how easy these are to get. I've got the early one with the glass nose. Both these types were used on Ploesti raids. I also have the B-17F unmade in 1:48 scale. I'd consider selling them to you but I'm in Australia and the postage would be horrendous by the time I packed them securely. You should try the plane talking discussion group on www.hyperscale.com those guys know everything. Maybe one day I'll get around to building mine and finishing my Lancaster Dam Buster. All lovely old aircraft. Good luck. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Jerry Slagle" Subject: Re: USS Essex The ESSEX was named after a ship that had previously served. USS Essex, a 1000-ton ironclad river gunboat, was converted in stages from the steam ferry New Era. Originally constructed at New Albany, Indiana, in 1856, the ship was purchased in September 1861 by the U.S. Army for its Western Gunboat Flotilla. Modified into a 355-ton "timberclad" gunboat, and retaining the name New Era, she took part in an expedition up the Cumberland River in November 1861. Renamed Essex soon thereafter, she received iron armor and other changes and was then actively employed in operations during early 1862, engaging Confederate gunboats near Lucas Bend, Missouri, on 11 January. On 6 February, she was badly damaged by enemy gunfire during an attack on Fort Henry, Tennessee. During subsequent repairs, Essex' Commanding Officer, William D. Porter, spared little expense (albeit without official authorization) in upgrading his ship into one of the most powerful ironclads on the Western Rivers. Lengthened, widened, reengined, rearmored and completely altered in appearance, Essex was back in service in time for operations against Vicksburg, Mississippi, in July. On the 22th of that month she ran past the enemy fortress city, engaging and damaging the Confederate ironclad Arkansas along the way. After joining Rear Admiral Farragut's squadron as the only Federal ironclad on the lower Mississippi, she helped repel an attack on Baton Rouge, Louisiana, on 5 August and was instrumental in the destruction of the Arkansas the next day. Essex was formally transferred to the Navy in October 1862 and remained active on the rivers through the rest of the Civil War. She bombarded Port Hudson, Louisiana, and helped with the occupation of Baton Rouge in December 1862. In May-July 1863 she participated in the capture of Port Hudson. She took part in the Red River expedition in March-May 1864. Essex was decommissioned in July 1865. After her sale to private interests in November of that year, she reverted to the name New Era. She was scrapped in 1870. Hope this answers the question. Jerry Slagle ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: John Kutina Subject: USS Ronald Reagan sailors get an education about carrier's namesake http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--reagancommissioni0709jul09,0,679780.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: roger.antrobus Subject: Camouflage I am trying to find the correct colours for the camouflage of HMS Queen Elizabeth (the battleship) for the year 1942. Alan Raven's book on camouflage (Volume III) covers QE for 1943 and on, but not 1941. Volume II does not mention the Queen Elizabeth. Alan Raven's book Ensign 4 shows the colour pattern of camouflage for 1941 but does not indicate the colour chips (the reference numbers that one needs in order to buy the paint from WEM). I should be most grateful if anyone has got any good information on the paint colours used. Roger Antrobus Sussex, England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: Ship modelling in the Sydney area this coming week Hi all, Well the next few days will see a feast of ship modelling with a display at APMA on Saturday & a talk on ship modelling at the Naval Historical Society of Australia on Tuesday night by a member of TF72. Here's hoping we'll get to see some TF72 models as well on Saturday at APMA. Check out the following sites for more infomation: APMA: http://apma.org.au NHSA: http://www.navyhistory.org.au/ Regards, Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: wem Subject: 1/400 Prinz Eugen/Blucher/Hipper PE set on the way! Yes, at last.. Peter's cracked out a stonkingly good set for the above. The new set, PE 4003, contains the following: Standard & Stanchioned 3 Bar Railings, Vertical Ladder (Stock), Anchor Cable, Single 40mm Bofors, 40mm Bofors Turret Top Footplates, 40mm Bofors Footplate Railings, 20mm Flakveirling, Half Height Railings, Bulwark Handrails, Single 20mm C30, 3.7mm Doppelflak, Bridge Window Plate, Crane Jib (Prinz Eugen), Hose Reels, Turmmast Forward Yard Footbars, Arado 196 Seaplane Parts, Superstructure Elevation Stop Rails, Funnel Base Vent Grills ( Hipper/Blücher), Funnel Base Catwalk (Hipper/Blücher), FuMb4 (Sumatra) Antenna, Mast Top Yards & Footropes, Stern Crest, Funnel Platform & Supports (Hipper/Blücher), Seaplane Launch Cradle, Catapult Access Plaform, Funnel Cap Grill, Crane Jib (Hipper/Blücher), Crane Base Hipper/Blücher), Foremast Braces, Boat Davit Winch Drum, Bridge Wings (Hipper/ Blücher), Main Mast Lower Platform (Late Prinz Eugen), Mainmast Platform, Turmmast Aft Yards & Footbars, Battle Bridge Windows, Main Mast Upper Platform, Seaplane Catapult, Retractable Bridge Wings (Prinz Eugen), Inclined Ladder (6mm), FuMo26 Radar Antenna (Late), FuMo26 Radar Antenna (Early), FuMb7 (Timor) Antenna, Radar Antenna Mounting Frames, FuMo22 Radar Antenna, Aft Boat Cradle Catwalks (Hipper/Blücher), Circular Portholes with W/T Hatches, Port Forward Boat Cradles, Starboard Forward Boat Cradles, Aft Boat Cradles Hipper/Blücher), FuMo22 Radar Antenna, Marx Floats, Small Open Boat Thwarts, Large Open Boat Thwarts, Long Inclined Ladders, FuMo23 Radar Antenna, Inclined Ladders (7mm), Deck Hatches, Watertight Doors, Rectangular Windows with Side Opening Hatches, Rectangular Windows with Top Opening Hatches, Whale Boat Davit Assemblies It is A4 in size, and is priced at 27.66 Pounds ($41.00 approx) shipped post free. Check it out: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/images/wembrass/wempe4003.jpg You can go ahead and order it via the link here: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_1_400___1_500_Scale_Photo_Etch_21.html or email Dave Carter at wem@onetel.net.uk That's all for now, from a swelteringly hot Northern Nevada! Cheers! John and Caroline Snyder White Ensign Models http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume