Subject: SMML VOL 2249 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:59:05 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Green Indiana (a bit long winded) 2: Submarine Pictures of LT Edward A. Faxlanger Jr. USN / Retired 3: seattlepi.com: Photo Journal 4: Re: Ensigns and Jacks (Again) 5: Re: New Schnellboot Books 6: Re: New Schnellboot Books 7: Re: HMS Ark Royal {WW 2] 8: Re: Natural Gas Carriers 9: Re: Green Indiana 10: Allied Coastal Forces Volume 3 - Update 11: Re: Ensigns and Jacks (Again) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "William H. Shuey" Subject: Re: Green Indiana (a bit long winded) Hi All: As long as we are discussing awkward/erroneous color schemes we should keep one thing in mind, the color film printing process. Unlike monochrome (black & white) color film, the color process during W.W.II had a number of layers, each of which was sensitive to a different color. When developed; temperature, time and accuracy of exposure all could effect the degree to which the different color layers are activated. Therefore, when being printed, the photo technician had to insert color filters in the enlarger's light path to give a corrected print. This is a judgment thing and depends on the technician knowing what the finished print should look like. If he is given bum information, the result can be a very pretty but very inaccurate color print. If someone had a color shot of the Indiana and had too much yellow in the filter pack and not enough blue, you could end up with a color photograph of a Green Indiana, genuine authentic photograph but... I know this has happened before because for years there has been an "urban legend" that the U.S. Marine Corps used Grumman F6F fighters in a 3 tone green camouflage similar to the U.S. Navy's 3 tone blue. Source of this "legend" was a color photograph taken by a photographer for one of the big news magazines; Collier's, I think, and run as a cover photo during 1944. It was a photo of VMF-222 Hellcats at Munda, on New Georgia, in October of 1943. Now it's a long way from New Georgia in the Solomon Islands to Chicago or new York or wherever Collier's offices were and when the film arrived and the lab guy developed it, the correspondent who took the picture was probably still in the South Pacific. So the lab guy asks someone what color are fighter planes painted and someone says Green. Hey! He's seen U.S. Army fighters at an airshow, right. Result is a beautiful color cover shot of U.S. Marine F6F fighters, top surfaces are very dark green, sides are a light green and the under surfaces are almost white. Genuine color photograph! Right! ALWAYS QUESTION A COLOR PHOTOGRAPH! Bill Shuey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Kutina Subject: Submarine Pictures of LT Edward A. Faxlanger Jr. USN / Retired http://www.cox-internet.com/faxlanger/navy.html Regards, John Kutina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Kutinam Subject: seattlepi.com: Photo Journal http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=24608 Regards, John Kutina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: HGYL Subject: Re: Ensigns and Jacks (Again) My mistake, John, you are quite right. One point you may be able to clear up for me. As commodore is now a substantive rank in the RN, does a commodore's broad pendant replace the commissioning pendant? Regards to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: New Schnellboot Books Hi The recently issued books by Squadron and Classic Warship on USN PT's, German S-Boats and RN MTB's has made me wondered about the two other Axis countries MTB's: Japan and Italy. They apparently had them but I've never heard of them being operationally. Were they late war production or poorly used? Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: New Schnellboot Books Dan, Thanks for the most informative two book reviews. Just received "Schenllboot in action" ($8.97 on Sale), and I agree with your review in every way. Expect to receive "German S-Boote at War, 1939-1945" in a few days from Amazon Books ($24.47 pre arrival Sale), and appreciate your comments on it faults, as I am now pre-warned. On page 12 of "Schenllboot in action", the picture of S-18 on the upper right shows a "Clover Leaf" shaped object stowed on the aft end of the deck house and ventilator for the forward engine room, and states it is a skylight black out cover for a gangway hatch. This same picture was in Steve Wiper's book, Warship Pictorial #15, Kriegsmarine Schnellboote, on page 14, and I often wondered what this strange "Clover Leaf" shaped object was used for ... now I know. Plan views of S-14 to S-25 show hatch covers with three port holes in a triangular layout. You mentioned the problems with defining the Panther insignia of the 4th S-Bootsflotille. An enlarged insignia appears in color art on page 30 of "Schenllboot in action", and does appear rather crudely drawn; but on page 25 there is a close-up photo of this insignia on S-204, and it to appears rather crudely drawn, and very slightly different from the color art! If I were to put this insignia on a S-Boote model, I would make a tracing from the insignia in the photo, and develop a decal. If it was crude art work on the original ... "do not change it" ! I think with the three books talked about above; those who are interested, are getting a pretty good overall look at the S-Boote design evolution, and have good information to produce a "definitive" S-100 model based on the Revell/Germany kit. I am glad I have held off building my S-100 kit. I must say that I am curious about the Plans and Books referenced on the following URL, but there is a limit to my research on the S-100 boots: http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: PAUL TOSCANO Subject: Re: HMS Ark Royal {WW 2] >> Does anyone know the shade of grey used on the Ark in late '40 - '41? My guess is AP 507B, but I'm an aircraft modeller! Also, what colour were flight decks painted? << Hi, According to the informationI I got from WEM, a most reliable source, all verticle surfaces were AP507C, steel decks AP507A, deck teak, black boot topping and RN anti-fouling red. Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: George & Fay Levine Subject: Re: Natural Gas Carriers I have not seen anyone else comment on this so here is the little bit that I know: There were two types of tanks built in the US. One used spherical tanks containing about 25,000 cubic meters of LNG (5 tanks per ship). The other used prismatic tanks of about the same size. Because the cargo was very cold these tanks had to be insulated from the ship's hull. In addition allowance had to be made for the expansion and contraction of the tanks due to change in temperature, although once cooled down for cargo I believe they were kept cold even on the return trip. The tanks sat on complicated pedestals and were not part of the hull. They were not designed so that they would be able to float free and I doubt if they would float when full of cargo (I do not remember the specific gravity of LNG). If seawater got through the insulation and hit the cold inner tank it would probably destroy the tank. George Levine Currently in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: MRCSCARDON Subject: Re: Green Indiana I errored in my last message. The Indiana was repainted in Ms22 not Ms 21 after the so-called green paint. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "lamkeel" Subject: Allied Coastal Forces Volume 3 - Update David and other interested parties I'm told that Rome was not built in a day (well something like that, and anyway I wasn't around then). Allied Coastal Forces Volume three is currently ongoing on both sides of the pond. From my side, our Volume 1 took Al and I some five years to put together, Volume 2 another two to three years (It seems so long ago now). The publishers have had (to be fair) problems. Our royalties were frequently late and had to be chased. (My job). It was a long task, with many promises of better times. In July 1999 the Receivers were called in on B T Batsford Ltd (Now I know why I was being stalled)! and I continued my moans. I wrote to the liquidators for our ourstanding royalties and received the reply to the effect - Don't bother as Authors are around the bottom of priorities. Subsequently the Conway Maritime Press name was resurrected, but with a smaller team. When I visited IFOS International Festival of the sea at Portsmouth, I was attached to the stand of our Coastal Forces Veterans Association for three days. I met up with Chris Langtree (now resident in Japan) and we had a walk through the dockyard looking at displays and stands. We found a stand for Conway Maritime Press, and decided that we would have a look see. Chris, without any prompting, said in a loud voice "I bet we do not find any of your books here John". As I was wearing my dockyard pass, it was plain who I was. We spoke and John Lee said that we really must organise a get together about Volume 3. I gave him my card and awaited events. I was e-mailed within the week and we met in their London offices. We had a 'frank' exchange of views. I was informed that the new company was the Chrysalis Book Group, and that "things would get better". Both Volume 1 and 2 (then out of print) would be republished in the next year, and that we would receive an interim payment of £500 to complete Volume 3. (£250 each). Over all the years I had continued to undertake research on Coastal Forces. Back in the 90's I had met up with the late George Selman, chief designer for British Powerboat Co. George had provided me with a mass (about 400) wartime drawings on microfiche, some good, others very feint. I had also obtained permission to examine the original drawings from Camper & Nicholson's of Gosport, held at our National Maritime Museum in Greenwich. I purchased a number, but this was long before Volume 2 was completed. One of my problems was to have the microfiche copied as there were no facilities then available (It was a wartime thing). I had also obtained other material about different power units used. The RR Merlin, Paxman, Sterling Admiral etc etc. All to study and redraw, along with other warships for my plans service. In March 2002 Al and I signed a new contract, and we started work.(again). In August the reprinted Volume 1 and 2 appeared on the shelves (Without any modifications or updating). Remember Volume 1 had taken 5 years - Now we had much more original material. All the weapons were drawn, but I had a great deal of previously unseen British Power Boat and engineering data to redraw. I now had all the full power trials for the 71' 6" BPBt's. as well as construction details (Hull, bridge and wheelhouse etc) for for the C & N designs. Working alone, running a plans service and with bills coming in requires enthusiasm. Not helped by the fact that Al and I had not received any royalties since August 1999. (A roll of draughting film costs £165, without the cost added of pens at £14 each). In 2003 I again started to chase up our royalties. By May, I threatened to stop work until matters were resolved. By June I was aware that there were again problems with the company. They had moved to a new location in London. I continued to telephone and make waves. In early June we recieved back dated royalties to August 2002. In the mean time, I was aware that the intended content of Volume 3 was mounting. It would now include six or seven power units drawn in detail, whereas the previous volumes had only detailed one. I requested that it be extended to two volumes, but this is not on, so I (We) have to cut back on content. Conway would like Volume 3, ASAP and who can blame them. We have worked long hours, (I wake at 4 am each day, including weekends) but at last I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. In my last communication to Conway I stated that I had only 16-20 more sheets to complete. Its now down to about 10 - but it does take time. No doubt there will be work that there will have to be ommited due to lack of space. I have to start my text AFTER the drawings are completed. Right now, I have some 55-60 sheets drawn. What will Volume 3 contain? >From Me - Designs from J I Thornycroft & Co., British Power Boat Co Ltd, J S White & Co Ltd, The Fairmile "F", and Messrs Camper & Nicholsons Ltd, along with all the outstanding weapons. I will let Al make his own report! Time scale - I hope to pass my work over by the end of 2003 or before, if it is at all possible. Oh, for more hours in the day! Remember that you heard it here FIRST. Yours "Aye" John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Ensigns and Jacks (Again) My thanks to all who answered my query, The amount of info available on this site never ceases to amaze me. There is still part of my original question that remains unanswered viz: is the same etiquette used in the USN and other navies? Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume