Subject: SMML VOL 2251 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:24:34 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: MAS boats 2: Re: Colours of the Ark Royal 3: Ark Royal Colours 4: Re: Books on Axis MTBs 5: Re: New Schnellboot Books 6: Re: ensigns and jacks, etc 7: HMS Queen Elizabeth 8: Re: MAS boats 9: AC/DC Picture Viewing 10: Re: Ark Royal colours 11: Re: Natural Gas Carriers 12: Re: MAS Book -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Toms' Modelworks PE For Sale 2: Heller 1/400 HMS Illustrious kit for sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Graham Boak" Subject: Re: MAS boats You will find reference to them being used against the Malta convoys. They also carried out a planned attack on Malta harbour, but Malta was pre-warned because Britain was reading the Italian navy codes, and they were beaten off with losses. No doubt there is more: I know this much because I've been reading up on Malta convoys. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: WRPRESSINC Subject: Re: Colours of the Ark Royal Ref the colours as shown on page 15 of Camouflage Vol 1 Royal Navy 1939 - 41 by Raven. The photo from which the artwork was made shows that the lower colour was definately dark grey. I sent a copy of this photo onto a gentleman (whose name I have forgotten) but who is on this list, who I hope will confirm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Iain Wyllie Subject: Ark Royal Colours Many thanks to those who posted helpful advice especially Chris Langtree whose book on the Kellys is an object lesson on how it SHOULD be done - so good I bought two! This, and Allied Coastal forces Vol. 2, are two of the very best naval books it has been my pleasure to own. How about the same treatment of Towns Class and/or Dido Class Cruisers, Chris? The terse and unhelpful comment from the anonymous person at WRPRESSINC was something of a surprise - perhaps he would like to enlighten me on his version of the facts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: David Gregory Subject: Re: Books on Axis MTBs >> Very few photos have survived the war from the Italian side and almost nothing survived from the Japanese side. << While I would heartily agree with Steve about availability of pictures of Japanese boats, much data exists on the MAS and MS boats used by Italy. I have found a score of pictures on the web of MAS boats, including color. There are a few good sources on MTBs in Italian (I don't have the titles handy) and several new books have come out from Italy that have loads of pictures of Italian craft. We sometimes tend to believe Allied propoganda about the Italian Navy. Italian MTBs sank more tonnage in one night off Malta than US PTs sank in the Med the entire war. Another Axis power that could use some good coverage of its boats is Finland. The Finns used British built Thornycrofts, Italian MAS boats, Finnish built versions of the Italian craft, modified VMV motor launches with torpedoes and captured Soviet boats. They even put torpedoes on a captured Soviet Armored Gunboat and used it on Lake Onega. They had some wild paint schemes and saw much action against the Soviet Navy. Dave G. The PT Dockyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: New Schnellboot Books Hi Thanks for answering Steve. You know Italy was a battleground during the war. So I imagine that their Navy archive could have been destroyed during the conflict because it might been near more important installations. However there is a book called The Italian Navy in World War 2 by Commander Marc Bragadin, Italian Navy copyright 1957 Naval Institute Publication ISBN-57-6515. It has a couple of clear photos of their MAS boats and gives a good over all picture of their political situation, strategy, and organization in laymen terms. By the way there are photos of the British Navy ships Penelope, Legion and Lively. In 1942 they were painted in 1940 two tone light gray upper works and Dark Gray hull paint scheme. Well I hope this is of help. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: ensigns and jacks, etc To: Bruce Ross You are quite correct about the position of the Commissioning Pennant on all commissioned U.S. Navy vessels. Even CONSTITUTION has one. But they are difficult to see, as they are long and narrow, and indeed rather small (roughly about 5 inches or so wide and about 5 feet or so long). They don't show up well in photographs, although you may see one occasionally if you look closely enough. They are flown not only 24/7, but 24/7/365. The small staff dedicated to the C/P is known as a "pigstick". This little known but ubiquitous device was discussed on SMML, last winter, I believe. See if you can find one, with its pennant, when looking at U. S. Navy ship models, you won't find many (a certain model of a WW 1 sub chaser is scheduled for a pigstick refit the next time the display case is removed). Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: roger.antrobus Subject: HMS Queen Elizabeth Hello all Does anyone know whether between 1941 and 1943 HMS Queen Elizabeth had her name just under X turret like so many othe ships. I have photographic evidence that her sister ships Warspite, Malaya, Barham and Valiant did.....but nowhere can I find a clear photo of that area of QE for that period. Your help would be much appreciated. Roger Antrobus Sussex, England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: MAS boats The various MS, MAS, and VS types are actually quite well covered in Erminio Bagnasco's I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI published in 1969. This book was one of a series on ships of the Italian Navy published during the 1960s. Plans can be acquired from Associatione Navimodelisti Bolognese in Milan. They have a website. Some good illustrated articles on the topic have also been printed in the monthly Italian-language journal "Storico Militare". Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "amyhoffman" Subject: AC/DC Picture Viewing Hi Gary, I know this is late and you probably already have a response, but if not, my husband has this program and we can help you. Amy, Vancouver WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: Ark Royal colours >> Your "most reliable source" must have been out drinking. << Now there's a real SHOCKER! Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: Natural Gas Carriers This is a really good question to ask Don Preul. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Sanartjam Subject: Re: MAS Book Hi SMML, The only book I am aware of on the Italian MAS boats is Erminio Bagnasco's "I MAS e le motosiluranti Italiane 1906-1968," one of the books in the Ufficio Storico official series on Italian warships. Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: FBustelo@aol.com Subject: Toms' Modelworks PE For Sale Hi Folks, I have the following Tom's Modelworks Photoetch Sets for sale: 1/500 Scale IJN Cruiser (Set #5003) - $12.00 1/500 Scale IJN Carrier (Set #5004) - $12.00 1/500 Scale USN Battleship/Cruiser Cranes & Catapults (Set #5007) - $10.00 1/500 USN WW2 Radars (Set #5008) - $6.00 1/500 20mm Guns & Shield (Set #5006) - $4.00 1/400 Scale Tirpitz (Set #4010) - $15.00 US Buyers Only - payment by money order please. email me at fbustelo@aol.com if you are interested. Thank you. Felix Bustelo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Geoff Baker" Subject: Heller 1/400 HMS Illustrious kit for sale Hi I managed to pick up a Heller 1/400 HMS Illustrious kit recently. The box is a bit old and dented but the kit is complete with the components still sealed in thier bags. I am looking for £50 plus P&P to cover what was paid for it. Cheers Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume