Subject: SMML VOL 2252 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:14:18 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ark Royal colours 2: HMS Queen Elizabeth 3: Re: ensigns and jacks etc 4: British WWII Destroyers - Grafton, Icarus, Ilex and Inconstant 5: HMS Prince Of Wales last camouflage 6: RN ship colors 7: Italian MAS vs. USN PTs - the photo collections -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Kits for sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Iain Wyllie Subject: Ark Royal colours During the course of researching the Ark I looked at dozens of photographs and have failed to find the one which purports to show a two tone camouflage scheme. I notice that this "division" between the supposed two shades of grey runs along the knuckle line and on several photographs the shadow below this line gives the impression of a darker shade but only in the areas where the knuckle is pronounced and not amidships. It was the drawing in the Raven book that prompted my query in the first place as I had not come across any evidence for a two tone scheme. I noticed the caveat that "it was for a short time only in late 1940" which seemed a bit odd. She was wearing a single shade when she was sunk - confusion about this may be caused by the fact that she listed heavily to starboard, exposing the area below the waterline on the port side which was, of course, dark. The area below the shipside openings [i.e. the area below the knuckle] is exactly the same shade as the upper hull. The interrupted repaint theory would suggest a very methodical approach to painting the hull and not one that I have ever seen in practice!! So all this leads me back to my original assumption that the ship was painted in a single shade and that it was AP 507B. Iain Wyllie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Chris and Kayo Amano-Langtree" Subject: HMS Queen Elizabeth Hi Roger The answer to your question is yes. That was the location for the names of the Queen Elizabeth class. The plates tended to be painted over during wartime but were still there. Christopher Amano-Langtree ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "bert" Subject: Re: ensigns and jacks etc from bert, just idle thought, In our club in Melbourne Australia, which is located on the first floor of Duckboard House in flinders lane, in a glass case is the commissioning pennant of H.M.A.S. STUART, well known as part of the "scrap iron flotilla" that served with distinction in ABC's (Admiral Cunningham) R.N. Mediterranean fleet during WW2. Several of His ships were sunk during the course of the convoys to Malta G.C. by the Italian MTB's as well as merchant ships. The crews of the MTB's most certainly did not lack courage despite way the Italian armed forces were described by the Allies at the time. tempus fugit! (TaT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: British WWII Destroyers - Grafton, Icarus, Ilex and Inconstant Hi all, I'm looking for information on the above as follows: Grafton - sunk in May 40 - probably unaltered. But what was she wearing? At least 4 other Gs were in camofluage by this time (Grenville, Garland, Grenade and Griffin) and Glowworm appears to have been sunk in dark hull / light upperworks. Gipsy, sunk in 1939 shortly after recall from the Med was probably still in 507C overall when sunk. But I can't find mention of Grafton (or for that matter Gallant lost 4/42 and Greyhound lost 5/41). Any one help? Icarus. I know she was in WA blue / white in early '43 from WP Vol 2 - but what was she in by end of war? Ilex in '42 / early '43 was in light disruptive after refit in USA and became CTL in Jan 44 in the Med. Was she still in light disruptive? And out of curiosity how did she become a constructive total loss (no reference I've seen says what happened)? Lastly Inconstant. I can find no photograph or reference to paint schemes for any period of her life. Most interested in what she was in towards the end of the war (in Western Approaches) or when with the Eastern Fleet. Thanks John Sutherland On a chilly Wellington winter's day (but somewaht warmed from watching the All Blacks give the Wallabies a hiding last night) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bruno Gire Subject: HMS Prince Of Wales last camouflage Just received Warship Perspectives Royal Navy camouflage IV (what a fantastic series!) and I've been very interested by Alan Raven's statement about POW wearing a deck pattern during her last months. Unfortunately, as he says, insufficient information exists about this, so I wonder if any SMMLies could contribute further... Any idea of the colours used (two-tones, multi-tones)? any idea of (at last part of) the pattern? Bruno Gire Bordeaux, France ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael London" Subject: RN ship colors Really a question for John Snyder but posted here so that any info gleaned will get a larger audience. In WW 1 ships of the Grand Fleet were painted dark grey at the start of the war but this was changed to light grey to make them less visible in the misty conditions of the North Sea. When did this occur and was the light grey the same as AP 507C used in WW 2; also was the earlier dark grey the same as AP 507A? Pre WW 2 the Mediterranean Fleet used a very light grey. Is there a Humbrol or Colourcoats equivalent? Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper Subject: Italian MAS vs. USN PTs - the photo collections I do not think some understood what I meant about the photos available in any of the worlds archives of Italian MAS boats and the USN PT boats. For every photo (1) anywhere in the world of an Italian MAS boat, I am willing to bet that I could find at least 10 photos of USN PT boats. 10 to 1 is a very large ratio. After having visited a few of the archives in the United States to look at USN ship photos, the amount available is truly mind boggling. It is literally in the MILLIONS! Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Anthony K C Lam" Subject: Kits for sale Dear guys, I have some 1/700 Knox class frigate the USS Robert E. Peary (FF-1073) for sale at $14 each. Made by AFV Club waterline. Very detailed kit. It's the only Knox class in the market. Interested party please emali me at hawkeyeshk@hotmail.com Kit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume