Subject: SMML VOL 2254 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:00:53 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: New Schnellboote books 2: Re: another Titanic related topic 3: Navismagazine (Airandseamodels) gone! 4: Ise & Hyuga BB/CV: linoleum on flight deck??? 5: Color scheme and helo for USS NEW JERSEY 6: Re: Titanic research vessel 7: need help with pics of RF-8G Crusader.... 8: Re: R N Destroyer Colours 9: Re: Ark Royal/Ian Gazeley 10: British WWII Destroyers - Grafton, Icarus, Ilex and Inconstant 11: Re: USS Maryland 12: Ark Royal 13: Re: More titanic questions 14: Re: Ark Royal 15: Re: another Titanic related topic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Another Titanic related topic ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ConnellyTG Subject: Re: New Schnellboote books Friedrich, It says it right there, S-7 and S-14, prewar types. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: Re: another Titanic related topic Andrew: Heller makes a 1/200 scale Le Suroit which was one the ships that found the Titanic Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Phil Stewart Subject: Navismagazine (Airandseamodels) gone! Hi folks. I just visited Airandseamodels.com (formerly Navismagazine.com) and found the following message: >> IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: AIRANDSEAMODELS.COM HAS CEASED OPERATIONS. Current subscribers can still access our huge archives. << Well I'm pretty sad about this. It was a terrible shock to come home to at the end of my weekend. I've really enjoyed Navismagazine's columns and articles for the last several years, and was waiting with bated breath to see the result of their most recent trivia quiz! I know there was some controversy resulting from some people's idea that Web sites should be free, resulting in some resentment over Navismagazine's subscription fee. I couldn't quite figure that out, since I shell out money for printed magazines on modeling all the time. I was just as happy to pay for Navismagazine, by the same token. And the content was good--well worth the money, to me. There is no explanation posted (yet, anyway) about the online magazine's passing. Editor burnout? Declining subscription? I couldn't believe the pace those guys worked at--especially given how long it has taken me to build my own models--let alone write instructional articles around the process of building them! (Living in a tiny apartment that has to be reconfigured just to set up for painting doesn't help, in my case...) I know some of the editors of Navismagazine have posted to SMML in the past--If you guys are listening, I want you to know how sorely your work will be missed, and how much some of us appreciate your contribution to the hobby! I've greatly enjoyed your articles and commentary, and you've enriched my experience of modeling. Phil Stewart Washington, DC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Phil Stewart Subject: Ise & Hyuga BB/CV: linoleum on flight deck??? Okay, Receiving my copy of Profile Morskie #31 (Battleship Ise), I see portrayed a great deal of anti-skid linoleum, with tie-downs characteristic of the IJN, on the battleship/carrier's flight deck. I was under the belief that the IJN had stopped using linoleum as an anti-skid surface, for fire safety reasons, some time in 1942. So the conversion in 1944 of Ise and Hyuga comes with linoleum? Hmm. I wonder, for one thing, about the efficacy of the very wide tie-downs portrayed in the Profile Morskie diagram. Any comments on this portrayal of the ship? I see at least a few small discrepancies between the Profile Morskie diagrams and photographs taken in 1945--whether they are attributable to PM inaccuracy or modifications to the battleship(s) is unclear to me; and lacking a photo of the flight deck, I have no way of evaluating this portrayal of linoleum. Thanks in advance for assistance. Phil Stewart Washington, DC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: mmaynard3 Subject: Color scheme and helo for USS NEW JERSEY Hello all stations I'm in the process of "re-habbing" a model of the USS MISSOURI, a Sterling kit my uncle built in 1957. I'd like to update it to the configuration of the USS NEW JERSEY during Desert Storm. Could one of you knowledgeable SMMLies indicate : the proper color scheme of the hull, superstructure and decks. As I have access to Model Master paint, an approximation of the Navy colors used on the real ship would be a big help. Also are H-60 helicopters available in this models scale, as well as photo etch railings? (See, this is what happens when all you build are Coast Guard cutters and try to venture out in another field!) Many thanks in advance.... To Chris down under, I have a copy of the New Jersey's plans, they're written in colloquial Japanese, but the illustrations are just dandy. If you want 'em I'll send them to you(Postal Address needed please.) Regards Mike Maynard, USCG(Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chris" Subject: Re: Titanic research vessel Hi Andrew, The Titanic research vessel is "Le Suroit". It is made by Heller and is 1/200. I believe the kit, #80615, is still generally available. Thanks, Chris Evenden Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Roy McKay" Subject: need help with pics of RF-8G Crusader.... Hi all, I'm nearly there on my ongoing mission to build models of each aircraft that served with CVW-8 onboard USS Nimitz from 1975 to 1987. But I'm stuck on a few details and planes. I'm looking for any decent photo's, or drawings showing the RF-8G crusaders from VFP-63, Det. ??? when attached to CVW-8 on USS Nimitz in 1979-'80. I have a b/w pic of one on Kittyhawk around the same time, but need a Nimitz Bird to show the style of tailcode. Any info as regards the exact det. number and even BU. numbers, modexes etc also appreciated. If anyone can steer me to find this info, please help. It must be in a book or website somewhere. Even stills from the cat shot sequence from the movie 'The Final Countdown' might be enough. I'm also looking for info on the SH-3Hs of HS-9, the EA-6Bs of VMAQ-2 (Bu. numbers & modexes, espesially the one that crashed starting the fire in 1981, as well as any unique markings pertaining to their Nimitz cruise). Lastly, any of you who build naval wingy thingys and have spare USS Nimitz decals in 1/72 (yes, here I go again) to trade or sell, please contact me by email. regards and thanks in advance, Roy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: WRPRESSINC Subject: Re: R N Destroyer Colours Inconstant Late 1941 or some point in 1942; Dark hull, light grey upperworks. Gipsy At time of loss; Medium grey hull, light grey upperworks. Greyhound November 1940L: Dark hull, light grey upperworks Gallant At time of loss: There is a photo somewhere showing her as a total loss at Malta. Grafton: Have private photos coming showing her at time of loss. Icarus May 1940: Medium grey and light grey dazzle type. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Graham Boak" Subject: Re: Ark Royal/Ian Gazeley I don't know whether or not Ian is a regular reader of this mailing list. On the assumption that he is not, I would like to say that Ian is an acknowledged expert of the FAA. If he has identified the aircraft as those of the 1941 period, then believe it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: British WWII Destroyers - Grafton, Icarus, Ilex and Inconstant John Here is what information I have on the appearance of the British destroyers you asked about: Grafton - The World Ship Society book "Ships of the BEF" has a photo of Grafton taken shortly before she was sunk, in May, 1940. She has a dark grey hull with a light grey superstructure. Gipsy - Was also in a dark grey hull/light grey superstructure scheme at the time of her loss. This is from photos in a couple of contemporary newspapers I have. Gallant - Same scheme again, dark hull/light uppers. Greg Haines book, "Destroyers at War," has a couple of photos of her lying derelict in Malta. Greyhound - Also in dark hull/light uppers, at least in 1940. Haines' book has a photo, as does Conway's "Camera at Sea." The other G class destroyers were as you mentioned: Grenville, Garland, Grenade and Griffin in early forms of camouflage, and Glowworm in dark hull/light upperworks. Icarus and Ilex - sorry, no information at this stage. Lastly Inconstant. March's book on "Royal Navy Destroyers" has a photo of her in a 'Western Approaches' scheme, whilst I have another photo of her in overall light grey, but neither of them is dated, unfortunately. Cheers Cliff Franklin Christchurch, New Zealand (and didn't the All Blacks do well!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: David Wells Subject: Re: USS Maryland "Perry Tolliver" wrote: >> Im looking for a relatively inexpensive model of the USS Maryland. Does anybody know where I can find one? << Good luck. The only ones I know of are in resin, and they usually don't qualify as relatively inexpensive. Hi Mold of Japan made one in 1/700. I don't know its current production status. Tom's Modelworks used to make one, but I think it's out of production. Iron Shipwright makes a 1/350 kit, but I suspect it might be too expensive for your taste. If you find a good kit of BB-46, please let the rest of us know. "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Iain Wyllie Subject: Ark Royal Hi Chris, We appear to be getting nearer the truth now. I am aware of the photos to which you and Mr McLaughlin refer and I agree that it looks like a repaint has been in progress as the rest of the hull paintwork is either in an appalling condition or has been chipped back and touched up locally prior to receiving the overall finish . It looks to me as though the lighter grey [507C?] is in the course of being replaced by the darker grey [507C?]. The new paint, you will notice if you look closely, does not stop in a straight line along the knuckle but at the bow it goes as high as the hawse pipes and then drops to a line just above the row of sidelights as far as the fwd shipside opening. It also appears to be at this height on the armour belt amidships. This certainly points towards the beginning of a repaint that went no further. However, this does not qualify as a "camouflage scheme" as it would seem that, had more time been available, the painting would have continued upwards until the hull was monotone. The fact that the superstructure and 4.5" mountings on both sides have also already been painted in the same, darker shade of grey would bear this out. The Ark seems to have been a little shy of having her port side photographed but photographs taken from HMS Legion at the time of the sinking appears to show that the port side has been similarly treated and has received a thin first coat up to the knuckle,to the hawse pipes at the bow and to the flight deck in the area around the after 4.5". The boot topping on both sides has been repainted and some of the draught marks "refreshed". As Mr Mclaughlin says, the coat of paint is thin in places and clearly only a first coat, the patched light areas still awaiting the darker grey which, sadly, she was never to receive. The original question remains, was the lighter shade 507C and was it being overpainted in 507B overall? Regards Iain Wyllie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Roger Buckley" Subject: Re: More titanic questions The Titanic searcher vessel was 'Le Suroit' and Heller made a 1/200 scale model of it (about 11 inches long) - no idea if they still make it, the odd one appears on ebay from time to time. The blurb says that it made a positive contribution in the search for the titanic during the summer of 1985 thanks to it's trailing sonar detector. Roger WIP Le Suroit, Lotus 7 & Opium Smuggler Yacht from authentic models !! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: Ark Royal According to Kenneth Poolman's account of Ark Royal the days leading up to her sinking were occupied with the Malta re-supply convoys. Based in Gibralter there would have been plenty of time during the turn arounds for her to have, at least, a partial paint job. Poolman notes that in the days leading up to 24th September 1941 and Operation Halbeard, she was fitted with her port midships multiple barreled pom-poms. The ship would have to have been "alongside" to load these weapons so we can infer that she used some of Gib's dock facilities. The apparently newly painted areas are very obvious compared with the weatherbeaten upper hullsides and it begs the question how long would the paint have looked so fresh. given that the Mediterranean would have more benign at that time of year. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Randy Ward Subject: Re: another Titanic related topic >> I know revell or someone has released a research vessel..i seem to recall that someone did the research ship that found the Titanic....anyone recall who made it??? & if its still available?..or is the research ship I have seen the same one that found the Titanic << The Titanic was actually found by equipment operated from the Woods Hole research vessel, Knorr. The visit the second year was with the R/V Atlantis and the submersible, Alvin, also operated by Woods Hole. (The Atlantis technically belongs to the US Navy.) The only kit I've seen is of the French vessel, 'Le Suriot', done by Heller. The Le Suriot was involved in the initial search, but was not the vessel that found the Titanic. Nevertheless, the French call her a 'Titanic search vessel', as she technically was. I've collected info to build a model of the Atlantis, complete with the Alvin, which actually made a number of trips to the wreck site. I also have a 1/1200 model of the Atlantis on the SMML pages. Revell recently released a kit of a German research vessel, the Meteor. If you get this one, Loren Perry offers a 1/300 set of railings that should work. Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Another Titanic related topic >> I know revell or someone has released a research vessel..i seem to recall that someone did the research ship that found the Titanic....anyone recall who made it??? & if its still available?..or is the research ship I have seen the same one that found the Titanic << Hi Andrew, That would be the Heller 1/200 LE SUROIT. We have it in stock. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume