Subject: SMML VOL 2259 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 03:01:25 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: green battleships 2: Gibraltar Drydock 3: Re: German WWI 88mm guns 4: Ark Royal 5: Re: Camouflage of PoW Funnel 6: Prince of Wales 7: Tamiya Missouri 8: Re: ARK ROYAL 9: O class minelayers 10: Ship plans 11: Re: Aircraft carrier book impression -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: August Internet Modeler 2: Model Ship Journal Updates ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Perry Tolliver" Subject: Re: green battleships Also wasn't one or both of the pre-dreadnaughts that Germany used during WWII painted in green camo? (Shane is probally going to start having a fit right about now) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Currie" Subject: Gibraltar Drydock No 1 in Gibraltar is a very big Drydock, been in it a couple of times on HMS Bulwark, and there was room to spare. It is still in use these days but is run commercially by a civilian firm. Yours Aye J W Currie CPO(AWW) Royal Navy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Sanartjam Subject: Re: German WWI 88mm guns Hi, In connection with building models of German warships of World War One, especially the Derfflinger, Lutzow and Hindenburg, does anyone know if the Kaiser's Navy had two different types of shielded 88mm (3.4-in.) guns? I know there was a shielded 88mm AA, but was there also a shielded low-angle gun of that caliber? I'm wondering because I think the Derfflinger and Lutzow initially carried eight 88mm guns, and I'd like to know if some were low-angle and some were AA or what. Also, if there was a low-angle 88mm mount, where can I find a photo or plan of one? Thanks! Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Iain Wyllie Subject: Ark Royal Thank you to everyone who contributed to the discussion -it was very interesting how parts of the various postings built up a possible picture of the reason for the odd final paintwork. Certainly the suggestion that pontoons could have been used helps explain why the painting started being done from the bottom up instead of the usual top to bottom. As regards memory playing tricks; I would certainly agree as I have, in the course of tracking down aircraft schemes, found that quite often the pilots involved were the least reliable source of accurate information. However, in the case of the ex crew member from Melbourne he may well be correct in maintaining that the Ark was always one shade of grey; that is if the repainting in a single shade had been interrupted as now seems likely. I can now get on and finish my model in the scheme I originally intended. Just one final point - If that new paint was AP507B, the old paint must have been an overall AP507C; or does the 507B fade that much in service? That is a rhetorical question: my ears are ringing enough as it is! Regards to all Iain Wyllie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Sanartjam Subject: Re: Camouflage of PoW Funnel Hi SMML, Regarding the camouflage of the Prince of Wales and WRPRESSINC's Volume IV, If you look at photographs of her AFTER the Atlantic Charter voyage and by the time of the Halberd convoy in September 1941, you'll see that the top third or so of her after funnel is a very light color bounded by a horizontal dark-colored stripe at the bottom; if you look at the last few seconds of Naval Video Time Capsule No. 1, Battleships at War 1941/42, you'll see color footage of the PoW and the light color at the top of her after funnel looks white to me. This is a change from the way the after funnel was camouflaged after she came out of repairs from the Bismarck action. Cheers, Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Chris and Kayo Amano-Langtree" Subject: Prince of Wales Hi David At the time of the Bismarck action Prince of Wales main turret roofs were AP507A. The secondary turrets were AP507B. Very good photos can be found in Raven and Roberts British Battleships of World War II or the Imperial War Museum photo archives in London. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Chris and Kayo Amano-Langtree" Subject: Tamiya Missouri Hi All The Tamiya Missouri is now out here in Japan. It's up to their usual standards and with the addition of etched brass will make a stunning model. Christopher Amano-Langtree ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "bert" Subject: Re: ARK ROYAL To all that have taken part in the "ark" debate, this will be my last missive on this subject, Every time I send off an email I think of something else I could have written, After I sent my last email, I remembered These videos I have; It can go for ever, and probably will come up periodically over the years a long while after we "oldies" have gone to "Fishers green". I Have a video of the ark in colour taken in the med between may and october 1941 when she was returning from a convoy/aircraft supply to malta. she is in company with the nelson and other units. In this film she is definitely in one colour from waterline to truck and it is what we used to call home fleet grey. there is also a brief shot of a destroyer in Med grey and it is streaked with rust along the whole of its length pattern. If seen in black and white it could be mistaken for a "camo" pattern This video was put together with archive film from the IWM. and is/was available in the U.K. an ex R.N.er in yorkshire made them and there are 12 1 hour episodes, I have obtained them all from the U.K.purchased by family and friends. so all you smmlies in U.K. should be able to purchase them. (2) the Ark would not have been" hurriedly recalled to service from the dry dock in Gib" as at this time it was occupied by the Nelson which had sustained damage from aircraft in a recent trip to malta, in fact a lot of the survivors from the Ark went back to the U.K. in her, including my friend Bob and when she arrived in the U.K. he got a draft to her as a P.O. Q.M. As for painting the Ark from pontoons you would have to raise scaffolding about 60 feet high to reach the flight deck, and from pontoons moving with the motion of the sea would never get a straight line. Would make a good film with "The Crazy Gang" in it, though: Or am I too old for you! to remember them. By the way the video series is entitled: Naval video time capsules. Episodes of the Royal Navy. with archive film from the imperial war museum. episode 4 is the particular one I have been talking about. Approx 20 pounds sterling each one. Yours Aye bert (TaT) "hands to make and mend" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: MRCSCARDON Subject: O class minelayers Does anyone know of plans showing the upper and side views of the stern of the four ships? I have the O to Z book that solves all my problems except that. I want to build an O minelayer from the Skywave/Tamiya kit. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: MRCSCARDON Subject: Ship plans Many years ago I purchased a side and upper drawing of the HMS Saumarez. It was about 12" x 15" and had the ship crest and a brief listing of battles. It was part of a series if I remember correctly. Who made these and are they still available? Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: Re: Aircraft carrier book impression From Bob Steinbrunn: >> I came away with the impression that the author, or perhaps the publisher, doesn't really have a good working knowledge of U.S. naval aviation. Then again, it's possible the book was written in haste to meet a publishing deadline which didn't allow time to proof read carefully and check photos for proper orientation. << Bob, I have always felt that the editor of a single title screw up more text, regardless of the subject, than all the authors in the world! Things like this are, IMO< beyond the control of the average writer. The "little guys" like Wiper, Raven, Kinzey and others have more direct control becuase they are acting as authors, editors & publishers - so any mistake is thiers alone - but the mistake are generally much fewer than any of the "mass market" books published by general text publishers, i.e., not Conways, Schiffers or the Naval Inistitute Press. James Corley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: August Internet Modeler Hi all, A few ship articles are included in the August IM. They include - Richard Eaton's Trumpeter 1/350 USS Essex - Marc Flake's HP Models 1/700 HMS Dreadnought - Michael Benolkin's Zvezda 1/350 Oryel - Marc's inbox review of the HP 1/700 UMS Inflexible - Richard's inbox of the Panda 1/350 USS Arleigh Burke - Chris Banyai-Riepl's Inbox of Jadar Ships 1/700 Spanish Battleship Pelayo - book reviews of the Schnellboote in Action and RN Camouflage Vol.IV Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Model Ship Journal Updates Finally! We have the Summer '03 issue of Model Ship Journal back from the printer after our file crash sent the mag back for a complete re-do. Now the 'bad' news. Model Ship Journal is no longer accepting new subscriptions. This DOES NOT mean we are ceasing publication! I have done a cost analysis of our subscriber's fees versus the cost of dealing with the post office's lost copies, replacements at 1st Class (ever increasing) postal rates and the cost to print a nice magazine and have come to the conclusion that a subscription would now come close to $75.00 per year (domestic U.S.) to allow us to make a profit. Model Ship Journal will now be sold as a retail product. In other words, I fired the USPS Bulk Mail system and will no longer use them and their services. Current subscribers will still receive their copies in the mail as before-until the subscription expires, but renewals will not be accepted. You can order current issues and back-issues at $9.95 each directly from the publisher, Photomarine Archives. 1st Class USPS postage is included. 2 or more copies, including back issues are sent Priority Mail prepaid. Foreign orders will be sold at $11.95 each and includes surface shipping. Add $7.95 for each magazine if you want foreign airmail shipping. You may also order MSJ from Squadron Mail Order, they receive enough copies each quarter to fill orders quickly. MSJ can also be found at your local hobby shop, independent booksellers, newsstands and selected Borders Books stores. I am also preparing to sell to Barnes & Noble books within the next few months. We are now in production with the Autumn 2003 issue which is expected to go to press in mid-September for delivery later that month. We will still be publishing every March, June, September and December, but I need to hear from you as to whether or not we are meeting your needs. I see a lot written in SMML and Steel Navy on the demise of model ship magazines, but not much on what the U.S. magazines currently in print (MSJ, Ships In Scale & Radio Control Boat Modeler) are doing or not doing to meet your needs. I need to know if you want more (or less) kit reviews, more feature articles, do you enjoy reading the historical pieces and plan/photo coverage of prototype ships? I enjoy writing about ships no one else covers, but do you enjoy reading about them? And we gladly accept submissions (photos, how-to articles, feature stories) from writers and photographers. Remember, Model Ship Journal is a one-man operation, so I may not always be able to pay for material as this is a very tightly run periodical, operating on very slim margins, read by the tiniest population of modelers-the ship modeler. But, there's still plenty to write about and many excellent ships to present, so I intend to keep Model Ship Journal active for a long time to come. To order from Squadron Mail Order, see their website at: www.squadron.com or check their monthly fliers sent in the mail. Victor Baca PHOTOMARINE ARCHIVES Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume