Subject: SMML VOL 2269 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 03:06:44 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: S-boote book- a positive view 2: Re: Yamato, again 3: O Class Destroyers - Tamiya kit 4: Re: Prinz Eugen 5: USS Ship Designations - partic. USS BB-5 Kearsarge, later USS Kearsarge AB-1, later Crane Ship #1 6: SMML members 7: Warning 8: Re: Snyder & Short Paint Chip Series ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: SMML Site Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: David Gregory Subject: Re: S-boote book- a positive view Enough!!!! There have been a lot of disparaging comments about the recent Historie & Collections S-boote book on this list lately so it is time for a little counterpoint. While the book is not perfect, let's consider how few books actually exist on this subject and the effect of all this complaining. Now that publishers are finally paying attention to craft that actually saw combat on a regular basis (as opposed to capital ships), the ship modelling community is collectively pointing its finger and holding it's nose. I for one am glad to have a book on German coastal craft IN ENGLISH for a change. Compared to the former "holy grail" of S-boote books, Whitley's "German Coastal Forces in World War 2", the new book provides a more balanced approach to the subject in that it covers some of the captured boats in the Mediterranean, has a broad range of photos and provides details I have not seen elsewhere ( ie, the identities of the two boats that US PTs engaged off Sicily near the end of the campaign). I find the filler items useful and interesting and encourage Historie and collections to keep up the good work. I am pleased that it does NOT spend pages and pages with useless coverage of tenders and early boats. At $23, this was well worth the price. Dave G. The PT Dockyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Yamato, again >> Yamato. Besides Skulski's drawings, is there any study on one aspect of her construction which I believe is somehow little known? I'm speaking about the barrel's gun stops (127 mm), which are difficult to drawn, because they had a complex design. << I have some excellent resources on the Yamato that show a number of details not available in English publications. If you will pardon my ignorance though, what are gun stops? Best regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: O Class Destroyers - Tamiya kit A couple of days ago someone posted something about this kit that was very wrong. The kit DOES have a lot of problems but being 16ft oversize is NOT one of them. For the record the kit hull measures out at 5 and 7/8ths inches OA, 5.75 inches WL. These come out to 342.7 ft OA and 335.4 ft WL. The Admiralty stated figures for O and P classes are 345ft and 337ft respectively. So it is probably UNDER sized, if anything. The largest of these "errors" comes to 0.04 of an inch - I defy anyone without access to highly scientific equipment to measure anything to that accuracy - the errors will be in my inability to measure more finely. Second point. The O and P class were NOT derived from the A to I "Leaders". They look nothing like them in any respect. They were shortened JKN class hulls (11 feet shorter both OA and WL to be precise). Part of the shortening is in the squaring of the stern, probably about half of it, the rest seems to have come from the area astern of the torpedoe tubes. The primary difference between JKN and OP classes is the reshaped and moved forward after deckhouse. Tamiya's is not quite the right shape but correctable. The OP leaders were identical to the rest of the class except they had a fatter after deckhouse. This followed the pattern of the LM class and was the difference in subsequent class leaders (Q-Z) as well. The Tamiya kit is the width of the leaders and could be thinned but it is so small a razor saw cut alone may be sufficient (depending on the thickness of your saw - you will lose at least that much materiel). Incidentally, the Q and R classes reverted to standard JKN hull, the S onwards had a new bow taken from the Tribal class design. John Sutherland Wellington, New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen >> I think Steve is right on all points, particularly the profit angle of the strange project proposal. However, I think that the Prinz Eugen may be safe to dive on by now, since some diving companies take tourists there and one of the propellers is displayed in Germany. << Ulrich, You are correct about being able to dive on the ship, but prolonged exposure would be fatal. One would get that from spending hours on the ship restoring it to its former self. But, really, the ship is not salvageable. It is just too far gone. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Tony Mattson" Subject: USS Ship Designations - partic. USS BB-5 Kearsarge, later USS Kearsarge AB-1, later Crane Ship #1 Some background and a question or two for the list: In 1920 the battleship Kearsarge (BB-5) was converted to a heavy-lift crane ship, intended to provide a mobile capability to handle large guns and other massive objects. This work, carried out at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, Pennsylvania, involved stripping away the ship's superstructure and replacing it with a huge crane rated at 250-tons lifting capacity. To ensure stability, Kearsarge's hull was fitted with side blisters that increased her beam by some twenty feet. She retained her engines and some boilers. Carried on the Navy's register of ships as "unclassified", with the designation "Crane Ship # 1", she retained her original name until November 1941, when she was formally renamed Crane Ship No. 1. She had already (in April 1939) been redesignated AB-1. I've been recently researching vehicular ferries in New Zealand and there were two car ferries operating in Auckland between 1946 and 1959. These were were built by Poole & Steele in 1930 in Sydney, Australia and operated on the Hawkesbury River, north of Sydney. On the outbreak of war they were redesignated as USS AB20 (prev. named "George Peat")and USS AB42 (prev. "Frances Peat") and served in the Pacific Islands as units of the US Navy. Can any kind lister clarify what the AB designation refers to, and why it might have been used on two such different sizes and types of vessel? Is it unusual that the Kearsarge as a 10,000 ton crane ship had the same designation as two vehicular ferries of some 385 tons each or was this just a quirk of naval designations? I'm also keen to find out more about the work that both vehicular ferries were used for during their war years (I'm sure the generic answer will be ferrying(!) but anything more specific like 'where' and 'what' will be of value) and I wonder if any kind lister might be able to point me in the direction of suitable references, archives, etc. Many thanks Tony Mattson Editor- Mailship Scale Marine Modellers Inc. Auckland New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Tom Detweiler" Subject: SMML members To All Members, Shane and Lorna: I hope I don't need to nag any of you folks but we are having a BAD problem with a really crummy Worm virus which shows up and installs itself on XP and other NTFS Windows OS systems. It is called Winblast32 or various names such as msblast, msblast32, etc. The best place on the web I've found to get the skinny on it is at Trend Micro, makers of antivirus protection. Unless you want to waste 9 hours trying to eliminate it and get it off your system like I had to, log onto Microsoft.com and go straight for the security update patch. This is a miserable, exasperating waste of time which has really hit California ISP's and other places in America. BTW I use Norton Antivirus, which failed to screen it out or to eliminate it-- it rides in on the internet, somehow. Update your virus files now everybody! On a cheerier note I am building my JSP Gearing Fram-2 and am very impressed with the detail, although my aging eyes and less steady hands seem to be telling me I need to stick to larger scales, from now on!! Tom Detweiler in Grass Valley, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "F. Pletscher" Subject: Warning Some person has asked at least one factorer of ship models for reviewing samples. He told him that he was requested by the German magazine "Modell-Fan" to make reviews in the manner as done at SteelNavy. This is not correct. Neither is this guy a contributor to "Modell-Fan", nor is it the policy of"Modell-Fan" to let their authors ask for reviewing samples. They are exclusively ordered by the editor. So whatever this guy's intentions are - they may be still honorable, after all - you should know that he is not acting upon request or even permisison of the German magazine "Modell-Fan". Falk Pletscher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Snyder & Short Paint Chip Series >> I have a question concerning Snyder and Shorts Paint chip series. Currently there are at least 3 companies basing a paint series for naval or commercial ships. They are White Ensign Models, Badger, and Model Master. My question is directed at the choice of 1937 Standard Navy Gray #5. The book USN CAMOUFLAGE OF THE WW2 era by the Floating Drydock Co. lists there were 3 shades :Standard Navy Gray A, B, and C. A is light gray, B is called Ocean Gray or Medium Gray and C is called Dark Gray. Which shade was selected to be the color chosen for the paint chip. Because Model Master issues a light gray color and Badger issues a neutral Gray color paint. Model Master comes very close to the S&S chip. I don't have the White Ensign colour coat bottle of this for comparison at the moment. Because while watching a video of the movie Dive Bomber it has scenes of a peace time Enterprise CV-6 sailing in almost light whitish gray. While an escorting destroyer in the back ground appears to match the chip selected in the series. << Hi Craig, Go back and read the FD book again. It doesn't say there were "Standard Navy Gray A, B, and C." It says there were three grays, with "Shade (a)" being Standard Navy Gray, "Shade (b)" being Ocean Gray, and "Shade (c) being Dark Gray. #5 Standard Navy Gray was what the FD book refers to as Shade (a). This color dated back to the end of WW1, and had been used by the USN all during the interwar period. Shades (b) and (c) were colors that were developed in 1937 for use in camouflage experiments that took place beginning in that year. Other than individual ships selected for the camouflage experiments, the fleet remained painted in #5 Standard Navy Gray, with #20 Standard Deck Gray steel decks and horizontal surfaces. The Snyder & Short #5 Standard Navy Gray is matched to the appropriate specification in the 1929 Munsell Book of Color, and would be Shade (a) as referred to by FD. White Ensign Colourcoats enamels are matched to the S&S chips, and presumably so is Testors. If the Badger paint is a neutral gray, it is wrong. If you want to read a far more up-to-date source regarding the development of USN camouflage, go to http://www.shipcamouflage.com and find the link to the development of USN camo, authored by Alan Raven and originally published in Plastic Ship Modeller in the mid-'90s. It is far more comprehensive than the FD book, which was published in 1976. You can also read complete transcripts of all the relevant USN camouflage instructions, beginning with C&R-4 (1937) and progressing through all the revisions to Ships-2. Cheers, John Snyder The Paint Guy White Ensign Models and Snyder & Short Enterprises ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML Site Update Both Lindsay Charman and Rui Matos' Mainbrace Galleries have been updated. There are also the following reviews: Skytrex 1/350 HMS Starling, HMS Crocus, HMS Swale, HMS Versatile Skytrex 1/700 HMS Cossak KiTech 1/600 Charles de Gaulle Enjoy yourselves ;-) Cheers Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume