Subject: SMML VOL 2270 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:14:28 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: S-bootes 2: Re: Yamato, again 3: Re: S-boote book- a positive view 4: Re: Snyder & Short Paint Chip Series 5: Re: Prinz Eugen 6: Re: S-boote book comments 7: Revell Lionfish model 8: Re: O Class Destroyers - Tamiya kit 9: Re: 1:48 scale model of Queen Mary 10: USS Pensacola plans 11: O class destroyers; Tamiya kit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: SMML site Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS Texas - the ultimate CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Re: S-bootes >> Enough!!!! There have been a lot of disparaging comments about the recent Historie & Collections S-boote book on this list lately so it is time for a little counterpoint. While the book is not perfect, let's consider how few books actually exist on this subject and the effect of all this complaining. Now that publishers are finally paying attention to craft that actually saw combat on a regular basis (as opposed to capital ships), the ship modelling community is collectively pointing its finger and holding it's nose. I for one am glad to have a book on German coastal craft IN ENGLISH for a change. Compared to the former "holy grail" of S-boote books, Whitley's "German Coastal Forces in World War 2", the new book provides a more balanced approach to the subject in that it covers some of the captured boats in the Mediterranean, has a broad range of photos and provides details I have not seen elsewhere ( ie, the identities of the two boats that US PTs engaged off Sicily near the end of the campaign). I find the filler items useful and interesting and encourage Historie and collections to keep up the good work. I am pleased that it does NOT spend pages and pages with useless coverage of tenders and early boats. At $23, this was well worth the price. << Dave, I don't think I quite understand where you are coming from. With at least three "S-Boote" books in the course of a year, in English. I believe that, as you were doing, the other people were expressing their opinions. As for useless pages on Tenders and Early boats, NO weapons system is self sefficient S-bootes frequently operated based around tenders, and the S-boote was not born fully formed and running at flank speed. To understand a weapon system properly, you need to know where it came from. And a book on S-bootes would not be complete if it did not show where they came from. Unless it was exclusively one one class of S-boote, such as the S-100 class. But that's falls under the type of book that Squadron Signal has in it's "Walk Around" series. Take care. Rich ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Nuno J. V. Rubim" Subject: Re: Yamato, again Duane Fowler wrote: >> I have some excellent resources on the Yamato that show a number of details not available in English publications. If you will pardon my ignorance though, what are gun stops? << Please, I have not to pardon what you call your ignorance. Thank you for your help. Indeed, it is what I refered, a matter little known, on wich I only recently came across. The turrets of 127mm guns (and yesterday I found also one in a 25mm one: Skulski drawings) of the Yamato, must had some kind of device in order to protect the superstructures of the ship been shot when the guns had to rotate fast, when aiming to a moving target, an aircraft. So it is evident on Skulski's drawings, the existence of steel bars, located on the sides of the turrets, wich stopped the guns when they rotate. Those bars were made in a complex shape, adapted to each turret, according to their field of directional firing. It seems that in other navies, those devices were made internally, in the turrets themselves, by stopping electrical means. N.Rubim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Lou Meszaros" Subject: Re: S-boote book- a positive view I agree, the book is great and money well spent (from the WalMart site). I am hoping this list can help me locate plans (specifically hull lines) to make my own hull, as they are not in this book. Does anyone know of any good sources? I have tried: http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm http://lonestar.texas.net/~glover/georgege.html http://modelyard.narod.ru/english/draw/germ.htm http://www.model-dockyard.com/plans/marinem1.asp http://www.warship.get.net.pl/_Articles/Model_plans.html TIA, Lou ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: Snyder & Short Paint Chip Series Hi John Thanks for answering my question concerning the selection of the paint for the chip in your Synder and Short Paint chip series. No I don't have reread the book by Floating Drydock. Also I had a subscription to Plastic Ship Modeler that contains the works that Alan Raven produced. Everything was reread first before typing because I decided to solve this on my own but after watching the movie "Dive Bomber" made in 1941 I decided to ask to ask a question. Your website is commenable and extensive in information. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SeaPhoto Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen Here is an English language page about a possible Eugen salvage. I don't know anything about the background of the person who wrote it, so cannot judge it's veracity: http://www.brandes.de/pg/PG/BOOK/Heutee.htm He claims the radiation levels are equivalent to background radiation today. I am not sure how useful measuring the prop on display would be, as it was shielded from some of the radiation of the blast by the water and rest of the ship; still I suspect it cannot be very radioactive if it is on public display in Germany. The superstructure would be the area to test in any event before an evaluation of the wreck's salvage possibility. I suspect that even if the wreck's radioactivity is at acceptable levels, and even if the structural integrity is there, the project would founder on the cost issue. Look at the museum ships in the US that are struggling financially, and in most cases, they were handed over in reasonable shape with no need for major repairs. The Eugen, at the very least would need extensive structural work in the area of the torpedo tubes and upper superstructure. Would it be one of the coolest things to see - you bet! Will it happen - not much chance. Politically, there is not much support in Germany these days for anything military, and even less for Third Reich artifacts. Cordially, Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography - onboard details and overhead views of modern warships www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway - learn about large scale radio control warship models. www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: S-boote book comments >> There have been a lot of disparaging comments about the recent Historie & Collections S-boote book on this list lately so it is time for a little counterpoint. While the book is not perfect, let's consider how few books actually exist on this subject and the effect of all this complaining. Now that publishers are finally paying attention to craft that actually saw combat on a regular basis (as opposed to capital ships), the ship modelling community is collectively pointing its finger and holding it's nose. << Perhaps I've missed something, but I don't recall any observations on this list or others that condemn this book as implied above. Comments have been made about avoidable errors contained within, but it seems everyone who has commented (me included) has identified it as a good value and a worthwhile addition to a collection of books on small combatants. Errors creep into articles and books (mine included) for a variety of reasons. Among these reasons are: a. putting too much faith in the accuracy of other authors' work b. sloppy research c. sloppy editing d. incomplete knowledge of the subject e. captioning errors on acquired photos f. guessing g. personal bias h. misinterpreting what the target audience considers important i. etc. Ideally, having these errors pointed out (with supporting evidence) should be viewed by both publisher and author as an incentive to do better next time. If left unaddressed, these errors are eventually compounded, contributing nothing positive to the literature. To say only positive things about a book (or kit, or whatever) when there are obvious avoidable errors or lack of quality (as defined by the reviewer) simply promotes mediocrity. Sadly, some publishers will print anything with little regard for accuracy. Often, they do not have content people on staff, so internal manuscript reviews are little more than spelling and grammar checks. The better publishers (the Naval Institute Press for one) send prospective manuscripts (regardless of the notoriety of the author) to a number of outside subject matter experts in the given topic for review and comment prior to publishing. The combined comments and recommendations are sent to the prospective author for his/her review and action. As a result, we get to enjoy (with a large measure of confidence in) the efforts of people like Norman Friedman, Dave Baker, John Lambert, and others. Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Revell Lionfish model Several months ago I opened all the molded vent holes on the Revell Lionfish model and also added the top of the pressure hull. Does anyone know what color the pressure hull and undersides of the superstructure were painted? I can not find any references here. Just guessing, these items may have been covered with a red/rust color anti-fouling paint. Another guess is that the pressure hull and undersides may have been painted flat black. My final guess would be that where visible, their color would follow the external three color camo scheme. Any help here? David L. Miller Macomb, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Terry Wiltshire" Subject: Re: O Class Destroyers - Tamiya kit >> A couple of days ago someone posted something about this kit that was very wrong. The kit DOES have a lot of problems but being 16ft oversize is NOT one of them. For the record the kit hull measures out at 5 and 7/8ths inches OA, 5.75 inches WL. These come out to 342.7 ft OA and 335.4 ft WL. The Admiralty stated figures for O and P classes are 345ft and 337ft respectively. So it is probably UNDER sized, if anything. The largest of these "errors" comes to 0.04 of an inch - I defy anyone without access to highly scientific equipment to measure anything to that accuracy - the errors will be in my inability to measure more finely. Second point. The O and P class were NOT derived from the A to I "Leaders". They look nothing like them in any respect. They were shortened JKN class hulls (11 feet shorter both OA and WL to be precise). Part of the shortening is in the squaring of the stern, probably about half of it, the rest seems to have come from the area astern of the torpedoe tubes. The primary difference between JKN and OP classes is the reshaped and moved forward after deckhouse. Tamiya's is not quite the right shape but correctable. The OP leaders were identical to the rest of the class except they had a fatter after deckhouse. This followed the pattern of the LM class and was the difference in subsequent class leaders (Q-Z) as well. The Tamiya kit is the width of the leaders and could be thinned but it is so small a razor saw cut alone may be sufficient (depending on the thickness of your saw - you will lose at least that much materiel). Incidentally, the Q and R classes reverted to standard JKN hull, the S onwards had a new bow taken from the Tribal class design. << John Thanks for your comments on the Skywave/Tamiya O Class Kit and especially the differences between the leaders and the rest of the class. All interesting and useful stuff. British WW II Destroyers are a pet subject of mine and I devour all information I can find on them. A few comments/questions. My main source being ensign 6 "War built Destroyers O to Z Classes" by Alan Raven and John Roberts. If I read this book correctly the O and P class were a totally new design smaller although obviously influenced by the J, K class and using the same machinery. The next pair the Q and R class used the larger J class hull design, the main difference being that they had a squared off stern which gave a speed and endurance advantage at high speeds. The next pair the S and T's used the same hull but with a Tribal type bow which produced less spray than the J class. How does this sound to you? You seem to suggest that the O and P class are more closely based on the J and K class than the book does. Also what exactly is the Tribal bow? I've looked at photo's and plans but I'm still not sure. If I had to guess I would say it was more flared than the earlier bow. It has crossed my mind that if you took a WEM J class kit in 1/700 or 1/350 squared off the stern and put single instead of twin 4.7 inch guns on it you could start a collection of British War Emergency Destroyers. I'm sure it's not that simple but it's a nice though..... I've got the D K Brown book Nelson to Vanguard on order. I will have to give it good read when it arrives as I believe it has a Chapter on Destroyer design. I'm feeling the urge to buy some more plans from Mr Lambert! Terry Wiltshire Budapest Hungary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: cjoleary Subject: Re: 1:48 scale model of Queen Mary Hi everyone! First off, I want to thank everyone for their help, comments and encouragement with the project and I'll no doubt be yelling for advice again before long LOL. Ill have a lot to think about before I get started. My main reason for going with a fibreglass hull was because I wanted to be able to light up all the portholes. I thought I might have problems doing that with a more solid hull. Also, I'd like to get all the hull detail moulded onto the plug before I make the mould. In answer to Jim's question, I'm based in Ireland. Not a million miles from Southampton so I may actually get over there and see that model.... Your invitation could come home to roost LOL! Anyway, there's a lot of research to be done still. I'm going to visit Glasgow university archives so that I can go over all the plans from the shipyard. That should provide me with all the structural details, lines etc. Well, thanks again and watch this space! Colm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: hwimmer Subject: USS Pensacola plans Greetings: I am planning to build the USS Pensacola in 1/350 scale and am in need of plans for her 1944 fit. I've tried Floating Drydock and some others and came up empty. Any suggestions? Thanks, John Collins Franklin, TN 37067 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: O class destroyers; Tamiya kit Hopefully a final word comcerning this detail. With a little extra work this kit does make a very pleasing model. HOWEVER The kit does only represent the flotilla leaders Onslow and Packenham. The fo'c'sle break is at the mainmast in the leaders and way foreward about mid bridge in the remainder. Ship's boats were doubled up with one set davitts port and starboard on the leaders. A not insignicant difference. If a later war Onslow is desired she received the very first lattice mast 4/43. Prior to this Y gun was landed for extra DC stowage and 2x 20 mm P&S at Y position. The 4.7 was a low angle gun not well suited to convoy defence. Packenham's war career was sadly all too brief prior to her loss in the Med. The kit does indeed scale out to be a little short. A few feet here or there. Interestingly the bridge superstructure scales out a little too long. I won't mention any numbers!.. At least on the version that I received. Scale comparison is slightly simplified by use of a metric vernier caliper and simple math. Above all: Keep on Modeling!! Darshan "Pour encourager les Autres" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML site Update Yes, there's more!! Some nice works of the modelling art seen at the following shows: NSW State Championships 2003; ACTSMS 2003; APMA Ship Display Day and the Club Techno page has also been updated. For what looks to have been a huge laugh and a great time though, check out the pics of the Buffalo SMMLiecon 2003 Cheers Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto Subject: USS Texas - the ultimate CD Hello Everyone, I am happy to annouce yet another CD from SeaPhoto. This time, the USS Texas is in for the full treatment...in this CD you will get: 1.) Over 360 Pictures, the vast majority hi-resolution (approx 1200 pixels wide or better), over 140 MB of files. 2.) Over 275 views of the USS Texas museum as she appears today,onboard details, details from shore and much, much more - a modelers delight! 3.) The full scanned contents of the World War I and World War II cruise books! 4.) Contemporary views of the Texas from throughout her career 5.) View of the Scout Aircraft and catapult dating from the 1930's and 40's 6.) 62 views of the magnificent 1/350 scale model made by Derek Brown, which has appeared in many model magazines, and won numerous awards. You have to see this model to appreicate it! 7.) Scanned drawing of one of her turrets, and the catapult 8.) And more! All this for 19.99 plus 2.00 shipping in the US, $ 3.00 airmail to anywhere else in the world. For more information, and small sample photos, please check out my page: http://wmunderway.8m.com/seaphoto/catalog/CDsales/texas.html Cordially, Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography - onboard details and overhead views of modern warships www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume