Subject: SMML VOL 2299 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:56:46 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Opinions on the cracker jacks 2: Re: Bell Bottoms 3: USS Oriskney CVA 34 info 4: ex-Chatham publishing list, specifically Chesneau titles 5: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors 6: Re: Falklands Ships 7: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors 8: Card Models 9: Re: Bottle models 10: E-6, not E-1, sorry 11: Re: USS Oriskney CVA 34 info 12: Re: Tramp Steamer 13: Re: The USS ARIZONA's OS2U-1 Kingfisher colours 14: Re: Exocet Leanders 15: Aircraft Carrier 16: Re: Falklands taskforce ships 17: Re: Arizona kingfisher colors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Falklands taskforce ships 2: Picture of 1944 LCM Gunboat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: Opinions on the cracker jacks >> I respectfully disagree. My term of service went from cracker jacks to bus driver suit and back to cracker jacks, and I don't remember one of my shipmates saying that they liked the busdriver suit. In our minds the cracker jacks was what set us << I guess it's a case of not having to ever have to deal with the 'bus driver suit' but I know that when I was in during the late 80's and early 90's, everyone I knew, including myself, wanted to be able to wear ANYTHING but those cracker jacks. Compared to the other branch's dress uniforms, they look just ridiculous, especially the hat. Yes, they are easier to store in the tiny shipboard lockers that you have for all your worldly possessions, but it doesn't make them any more attractive and any less circus-like. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Don Myers Subject: Re: Bell Bottoms A pop into mind reflection on hands in peacoat pocket was my wearing a peacoat in winter during A School (btw, never do a fast trot across the parade ground in winter at Great Lakes- durn near froze up my lungs!) with collar up but top button undone. The term used was "Billy Boot Camp" and drew criticism. Now a trivia question on attire in the movies. Did Jack Nicholson (Bad Ass Billy Budusky in Last Detail?) wear regulation blues or tailored w/flared bottoms? I do not know myself. Re: 13 buttons, some buttoned the flap ends only. Don Myers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: USS Oriskney CVA 34 info Was the Oriskney CVA 34 the same class of ship as the Coral Sea CVA43? I built a 1/350 model of the Coral Sea for a fellow who served on her in the early 1980's. His father saw the Coral Sea under construction and he served on it! The entire model was made out of wood and a bit of brass for railings, etc. Since the hull of the Coral Sea was originally laid to be an Iowa class battleship, I used the 1/350 Tamaya Missouri hull for a pattern. The rest I did through photo interpretation from the fellow's cruise book and photos off the internet. Half my modeling time was spent making drawings and plans! Anyway, the model turned out to my satisfaction and the fellow who commissioned it is very proud of it and put it on display in his store. David L. Miller Macomb, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Reid, John (AFIT)" Subject: ex-Chatham publishing list, specifically Chesneau titles To Roger Chesneau: Is there any way that SMMLies could lobby the new owners to get on with actually bringing out these titles? I saw them favourably reviewed in Marine Modelling International earlier this year and put them on my notional to-buy list! John Reid ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors As of October, 1941 the Kingfisher's top half of the fuselage and vertical tail surfacswas painted Intermediate Blue Gray while bottom half was painted Light Gray. The word "NAVY" seraial number, and model designation were in one-inch black or dark blue letters. The Arizona carried two OS2U-3 Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M. Div., M. S. I. S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: Falklands Ships Falklands Task Force Portfolio, published by Mike Chritchley in the 1980s, has a photo on p.89 of BRISTOL with the following caption: "The second wave of warships sailing to join the force have all their pennant numbers and identification marks removed." No numbers are visible in this photo, nor on that of BACCHANTE below it. No pennant numbers are visible on a photo of ANTRIM on p. 96, nor on SHEFFIELD (burning and assisted by ARROW) on p.103. Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors >> Can anyone tell me what the color scheme of the Kingfisher aircraft on board the USS Arizona was in late 1941. << The planes from Arizona, as well as others, were aboard Curtiss that morning getting some maintenance done. Here is a pic of the remnants of one of them, possibly from Arizona http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n20000/n26301.jpg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "DarekL" Subject: Card Models >> I have been looking at some of the card models available through Marcle in the UK. I am not contemplating the SD14 but wonder if anyone has had the experience of building an average card model and what quality could be expected. << Bob, you can check these links to see some 1:200 scale paper models; http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=26742&t=26742 http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=25650&t=25650 Darek www.paperlab.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: Bottle models Gil Charbonneau, who lives in Edgecomb, Maine, does very fine ships in bottles. He even has a video out on the process. His website is: lincoln.midcoast.com/~gilships/ Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Loren Perry Subject: E-6, not E-1, sorry The statement below, which was in my response to yesterday's posting, should have read E-6 for an ADJ-1, not E-1. I'm surprised no one caught it! Very UnSat. >> Jim is 100% correct on all details mentioned above. As a former E-1 (ADJ-1) in the 1960's serving at NAS Oceana in Virginia where I administered tender loving mechanical care to F-8 Crusaders, F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, T-33B's, TF-9J Cougars, UH-2 Seaprites, and on rare occasion, even C-47's and C-45's, the uniforms were exactly as Jim described. << And yes, the return to bell-bottoms (traditional enlisted Navy uniforms) was indeed partially based on negative feedback from the regular sailors in the fleet. I was one of the many thousands who groused about it. Too expensive and too much upkeep required. They also required too much stowage space, especially the hat. Very few really liked the "updated" look. They were indistinctive and had no real basis in U.S. Naval history. For once, the brass listened and took action. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Tom Detweiler" Subject: Re: USS Oriskney CVA 34 info Hi Kurt -- I am in the US VFW (Vets of Foreign Wars) and remember the Oriskany disaster. At the time she had her fire I was reserve delayed entry but after I was in, I remember seeing her tied up at the end of the "boat pond" (harbor inside the breakwater) in Long Beach for a long time before she was bought and scrapped. Also tied up there were the Valley Forge, and Ticonderoga. We went aboard all of them to scavenge spare parts for our old Gearing destroyer. All of these compact carriers had among other things large geodesic radomes that gave their islands a distinctive look. Anyway one of the projects we have going through the VFW is the Vet's History Project: the idea is to get folks like your relative to sit down and either write or talk into a tape recorder to recollect what they remember about 'Big O' or whatever their duty was at the time, so it can get into the archives. You can see some of the results of this on the History channel from time to time, I believe they are cosponsors of the project. Try to see if you can get your relative to contact the VFW or VVA (Vietnam Vets Association) for an interview. If we don't get these vets to write or tape their memories, a lot of history will be lost. A search engine using "Veterans History Project" will pop up plenty of contacts. Thanks Tom Detweiler in Grass Valley CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Tramp Steamer >> Loose Cannon makes a 1/700 Harriman class Pass/freighter. These were WWI ships are about the only kit I know of which is close to what you want. They can be made into two different versions. << I think the "Nora", a tramp steamer which is included in the WSW merchant ship set, may also be useful for your project. Jim Shirley used to make a Doxford tramp which I found some time ago gathering dust in a southern european hobby shop. This is also a nice kit if you can find it but it is more useful for a 1930-40s project. Cheers, Pieter Cornelissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Graham Preston Subject: Re: The USS ARIZONA's OS2U-1 Kingfisher colours All three of the ARIZONA's Kingfishers were finished with "Non-specular Blue-Gray" upper surfaces over "Non-specular Light Gray" undersurfaces, with flat black propeller blades. The markings carried were four white stars on a dark blue roundel, with a red centre; one on either side of the after fuselage, just before the tailplane; one on the upper left wing, and one on the lower right wing. The red and white stripes on the rudder did not appear until early 1942. ARIZONA's aircraft were coded "1-0-1" for aircraft serial number 1695, "1-0-2" for aircraft serial number 1696, and "1-0-3" for aircraft serial number 1697. The propeller tips were striped red/yellow/dark blue, with the red being at the very tip. This information is from the Aeromaster decal sheet for the Kingfisher, Pt. 2 (#48-411), and confirmed with photos of her aircraft in "Battleship and Cruiser Aircraft of the United States Navy, 1910-1949", by William T. Larkins; "Battleship ARIZONA - an Illustrated History" by Paul Stillwell; and "USS ARIZONA Ship's Data" from the USS ARIZONA Memorial Museum. There was a question asked by someone on this list a few week or two ago about whether or not the ARIZONA's anti-aircraft guns were in action by the time her forward magazines blew up. I couldn't find anything in writing to confirm or deny this, but a number of photographs show the port-side 5 Inch/25 Cal battery with the guns pointing skyward. to me, that would suggest that at least a few of the guns were returning fire. Also, RAdm. Kidd was last seen alive, assisting another crew member with a .50 Cal machine gun. Hope this helps. Cheers, Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: M Brown Subject: Re: Exocet Leanders Jecobin have a set of 1/96 plans for an Exocet Leander, Sirmar sell it with their 1/96 kit. Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: Aircraft Carrier HOWDY ALL, herz an e-bay link to a carrier that kurt may be able to use. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3145798968&category=4248 DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Allan and Crystal Plumb" Subject: Re: Falklands taskforce ships >> I am looking for some help on the appearance of Royal Navy ships of the Falklands Taskforce, particulary HMS Glasgow, were all pennant numbers painted out including those on the stern? also were the code letters on the flight deck retained? << Osprey MAA 134 Falklands Naval Forces has several pictures of warships with the stern pennant numbers (Arrow, maybe Sheffield, Glamorgan). Sir Tristam had a side pennant, Fearless had a partial on return (perhaps the overpaint was wearing off?). One unidentified Type-21 next to Glamorgan had a side pennant. No clear pictures of flight deck numbers, also several pictures indicate that in general most ships did not have the usual side numbers, not all had stern numbers. Nothing on Glasgow, here. Looks like most numbers were covered, but the rule is not general enough to assume anything about Glasgow, from these pictures. HTH. Allan Plumb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: MRCSCARDON Subject: Re: Arizona kingfisher colors The Kingfishers were finished in blue-grey over light grey. The national insignias were on the upper port and lower stafboard wing. The insignias did have the red dot. Smaller insignias were on the far aft fusalage. Photos of the aircraft on Ford Island do not show any red and white tail stripes. Tail stripes were authorized January 5th 1942. Side codes were in flat black. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Falklands taskforce ships Hi Chris, You need the following two books, available from us: FALKLANDS TASK FORCE PORTFOLIO, CRITCHLEY,M. A4 s/b Each part a 112 page photo record of the task force, excellent pictorial record b/w PART ONE £9.99 FALKLANDS TASK FORCE PORTFOLIO, CRITCHLEY,M. A4 PART TWO (inc. colour pix) £9.99 Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David Gregory Subject: Picture of 1944 LCM Gunboat The long sought after picture of the LCM Gunboat made by PT Squadron 9 in 1944 is now on my site. See it under "New releases" and "Wanted" pages. Thanks, Dave http://ptdockyard.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume