Subject: SMML VOL 2300 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:46:41 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: RAN FFG upgrade 2: Flightdeck supporting structure of ESSEX-Class carriers 3: Re: Cracker Jack Uniform 4: card models 5: Oriskany 6: E-6 versus E-1 7: Re: Skytrex 8: Re: Card Models 9: Re: Opinions on the cracker jacks 10: USS ORISKANY 11: Re: Falklands Ships 12: "Bell bottom trousers, buttons made of brass...wide around the ankles, tight around the *ss..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: models and books for disposal 2: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: andrew jones Subject: RAN FFG upgrade Hiya Some time i remember that the RAN was going to put a VLS system to replace the single launching arm..i seem to recall that this was scrapped... i see on World Navies today web site, that the plan was an 8 cell VLS for 32 ESSM missiles .. so that would mean 32 individual launch tubes? was this correct as im thinking of maybe..just maybe doing something a little different next year regards Andrew OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Roger Harr Subject: Flightdeck supporting structure of ESSEX-Class carriers I am building a 1/96 model of CV-47 USS PHILIPPINE SEA and asked this question several months ago. The layout of the supporting structure of the flighteck is still a mystery for me and I am looking for plans or photos of the layout of this structure for the long hull Essex carriers. I have all available plans from Floating Drydock and the Anatomy of the Ship book of the ESSEX Class. I also had the question in many several forums and made an internet research. No result! The way to US national archives is a little bit to long for me. Does anyone know an other source? Roger Harr from Switzerland ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Cracker Jack Uniform The transition to the bus driver suits was ordered through the courtesy of Adm. Zumwalt. During his watch, he sent out so many orders and directives and counter-orders that they were called "Z-grams" and "Zumwalt's snowflakes". He was supposed to transition the Navy from a WW2 fighting force mindset to the "modern" world. Sort of like the old BB admirals vs. the CV admirals vs. the SSBN/SSN admirals. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Russell Adams" Subject: card models For Bob Evans, re card models: Here are a couple of sites that have free downloads of card ships. You can play/practice before spending the big bucks. www.digitalnavy.com www.papershipwright.freeserve.co.uk Have fun! Russell Adams Windsor,NY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: Oriskany I'm sure mine will be only one of a flood of replies to this query, but here goes: the Oriskany is an ESSEX Class carrier, the Coral Sea is a MIDWAY Class carrier. maybe from a distance and around the corner there are simularities--they were of an era--but up close they are nothing alike. s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: CapnAgee Subject: E-6 versus E-1 Loren ... I saw it, but thought maybe you were testing the nit-pickers. From one old E-6 (sorry, Air Force) to another, have a good time in the mist and rain; I'm here in the stinking Arizona desert! Ray Agee Navy by birth, Air Force by ??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NeilTaylor54 Subject: Re: Skytrex I have the Attacker which is a very impressive model and checks out in terms of accuracy. The Sheffield is not a scaled 1:600 model which I have pointed out to Skytrex but they still include it in the series. I have to say that the rest of the series of all nations are excellent value for the cost and I recommend the German ships as particularly interesting. Neil Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Re: Card Models The answer to the question "what sort of quality can you expect from card models?" is basically the same as "what sort of quality can you expect from plastic models?". It depends on the manufacturer. Just as there are simplistic, poorly researched and clunky plastic models out there, there are simplistic, poorly researched and clunky card models out there too. There are also a lot of good, accurate and very detailed models available, including a lot of subjects you cannot get in plastic at all. The rule of thumb I would use is to start by ranking the models by publisher, then spend some time looking at what is available, then ask either on this list (there are several lurking card modellers - I am one - but more on that later :-) or ask on a card modelling list (look at www.cardfaq.org for details). The Rolls-Royce of card model publishers is the German company HMV, very close comes a group comprising the publishers GPM, Halinski, Digital Navy, my own label Paper Shipwright, Schreiber, CFM, Passat, JSC and Wilhelmshaven. Other publishers exist and there are some gems but you need to be careful if you go outside these publishers for ship models (apologies if anyone feels affronted by this). Interestingly the card world resembles the plastic one in that there are a few large producers and a number of niche publishers like the resin model producers. Once you get to know the names you get a feel for what the model will be like. Personally I have tried to design my card models to be as detailed as I can but still physically able to be assembled without going blind! The physical limitations of the paper need to be taken into account. I have seen outstanding results with combinations of card, photo-etched parts and some plastic sprue for masts and gun-barrels - just like the better plastic models! As always you pays your money and you takes your chance but I would recommend you try a card model. David Hathaway info@papershipwright.co.uk www.papershipwright.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Rick Lundin" Subject: Re: Opinions on the cracker jacks >> I respectfully disagree. My term of service went from cracker jacks to bus driver suit and back to cracker jacks, and I don't remember one of my shipmates saying that they liked the busdriver suit. In our minds the cracker jacks was what set us << The bus driver suit was just coming into vogue towards the end of my hitch in the Nav (69-75). Fortunately I never had to wear the new uniform. The Old/New service dress blue uniform was as sharp as hell if you wore it correctly: (1) Spit shined shoes, regulation not Corfams, totally shined not just the toes. A good spit shine lasts forever if maintained and avoids the phony look of Corfams. Officers wear Corfams. (2) Bell bottoms, just get a pair of Seafarers if you can get way with them, in any case the bottoms of the pants should cover all but the toes of the shoes this will even make regulation pants look belled. Don't forget the Navy Cross in the back. (3) Dress jumper should have spotless white piping and should fall between the last two buttons on the pants. (4) The neckerchief was not tied but joined with a "cheater" to allow it to fall evenly on both sides and also a bit lower. (5) High neck t-shirt, not regulation t-shirt. This not only looks better but prevents the neck from staining the uniform. (6) The White Hat's brim is rolled at the minimum - only a boot wears the hat as issued. The White Hat can also be boxed into quarters and each of the four brims twisted down - whatever your particular command lets you get away with. It is worn forward on the head just above the eyes. I also found it embarassing when running Military Sick Call. I found myself addressing anyone wearing the new uniform (the bus driver suit) as "Chief". No first or second class feels comfortable being addressed as "Chief". The Navy is unique in recognizing advancement of an enlisted man to the pay grade of E-7 with a distinctive uniform. Thats on of the things that makes the Navy unique, the Cracker Jack (also known as the Donald Duck) uniform another. Hell, how can you call someone dressed in a bus driver suit a "swabbie". Rick Lundin HM-2 USN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: USS ORISKANY HOWDY ALL, IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT, the coral sea was a midway class carrier. david in dixie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Re: Falklands Ships Hi Concerning the HMS Glasgow D-88. The HMS Glasgow did have her side pennant numbers painted over but her stern number appears to been present but was less defined like they painted 3/4 of it out to produce an outline.. Her helicopter flight deck letters are: G W Also like all 5 Sheffield class, they had a black stripe from the center top of their smoke stack to the main deck and then down to the waterline. This was to prevent confusion with the Argentine similar ships. Using the book Modern Combat ships 3 Type 42 on page 96 has a photo of the Glasgow returning from the Falklands with the black stripe plainly visible. I hope this is of help. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: "Bell bottom trousers, buttons made of brass...wide around the ankles, tight around the *ss..." Guess I'll add my two cent's worth to the bell bottom discussion: I served from 1966 to 1970 during the Navy's "traditional" dress period. We all enjoyed the uniform, and couldn't wait to get to Hong Kong to purchase a set of tailor-made gabardines - with exaggerated bells. We all wore Seafarers aboard ship because they had a more pronounced bell than the Navy-issue dungaree pants. I got out just as the infamous Zumwalt "Z-Grams" started coming out...and I'll not soon forget seeing all the pimply-faced NTC boots standing on streetcorners in San Diego looking like CPOs, with the double-breasted coat and tie and peaked hat. How many of you remember the Navy recruiting poster "Heritage", with the slender GMG1 standing there holding his son's hand with "Old Ironsides" in the background? How many young men joined the Navy because of that powerful image, do you think? BTW, my standard-issue dress blue bell bottoms had 14 buttons - the waistband had two and the other twelve were spaced around the flap. Doug Bauer Poway, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: models and books for disposal Hi all, In the interests of continuity and ease of reference, not to mention saving SMML space, I have put up a small webpage with my list of kits and books etc for disposal: http://www.kurasc.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot/kits_sep2003.htm All prices are negotiable, so please feel free to make me an offer. Regards, Gernot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS Arizona Kingfisher Colors >> As of October, 1941 the Kingfisher's top half of the fuselage and vertical tail surfacswas painted Intermediate Blue Gray while bottom half was painted Light Gray. << Sorry, wrong terminology regarding the blue-gray. See below for correct reference: >> All three of the ARIZONA's Kingfishers were finished with "Non-specular Blue-Gray" upper surfaces over "Non-specular Light Gray" undersurfaces, with flat black propeller blades. << The correct blue-gray and light gray are available in Colourcoats enamels: ACUS05 USN Light Gray ACUS06 USN Blue-Gray These are matched to the paint chips in the old Monogram volumes on USN aircraft camouflage. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume