Subject: SMML VOL 2346 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 04:16:24 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: For John Gavel 2: Liberty ships on History chanel 3: Re: roll call 4: Re: Royal Sovereign 5: Late for Roll Call! 6: Re: Cunard queens 7: Thinning Colourcoats 8: Re: Royal Sovereigns: Pieter and Darius 9: Re: Roll Call and Ark Royal 1941 Photo's 10: Help Please HMS Lobelia 11: Roll Call 12: CAD Plans for WWII Subchaser ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Ship Model Club in New Hampshire - Attn. Randy Ward ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Hogg, Gordon" Subject: For John Gavel Thanks to John Gavel for his help on biographical details on J. Walter Christie and Geoffrey "Iceman" Pyke--much appreciated! Gordon Hogg Lexington, Kentucky, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Perry Tolliver" Subject: Liberty ships on History chanel Tongiht at 9 the History Chanel is doing a show on the liberty ships made during WWII. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: VONJERSEY Subject: Re: roll call sorry i'm late - been a busy month i'm ken auslander (vonjersey) from manhattan nyc i'm an attorney (okay, try to tell me a joke i haven't heard) what i do has nothing to so with history or ships but the consolidation is that i get to see the ships preserved or going into/out nyc harbor love smml it has been a great help to my hobby of scale ship modeling ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Royal Sovereign Pieter, I did have more time to look at the photo of modified RS class battleship in Victorian scheme and (using Burt's book and his article from Warship) I would hazard a guess that the ship in photo is most probably Ramillies or (less probably0 Royal Oak and not Revenge. While it is difficult to make out a patern of portholes on a black hull, it was only Ramillies' and Royal Oak's steam pipes which reached to about half way of the funell caps*. Ramillies did have those pipes only on the rear part of the funnels and RO had them both on the front and on the back. While it appears that the ship in the photo has only single steam pipes I cannot be really sure that it is indeed true. In case of both ships there can be an explanation why did they carry black/white/buff scheme: Royal Oak was the first to receive refit and so could have left the yard in old paint scheme. Ramillies left the refit yard only to be commisioned into Reserve and than recomissioned into Sheerness-Chatham Reserve Division and so could carry the victorian scheme for a while even after her refit. Best wishes Darrius *admittedly the steam pipes could have been modified during the refit but, if that has happened, recognition of the ships would be down to the portholes pattern and positions of the anchor ports. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Paul Borchers Subject: Late for Roll Call! Paul Borchers here, resident of the Dallas-Fort Worth (Texas) area. I've never been in the Navy, although I did work on an autopilot replacement program for the S-3 Viking. Currently employed by NASA Ames Research Center at its North Texas Research Station, just south of D/FW Airport, where we work on air traffic control research. I'm married to a patient, loving wife and we have four children. I've been interested in ships ever since my parents decorated my room in a nautical theme (I was 4 at the time). First model was the Monogram USS John F. Kennedy, and I've branched out to a lot of different things since then. On the workbench in various conditions: 1/700 Tamiya Shinano, 1/700 Skywave Cannon DE. Occasionally I fiddle with the Heller HMS Victory - I will get going great guns on that one when the kids are old enough to help! Paul F. Borchers NASA/FAA North Texas (NTX) Research Station ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Björn Bäcklund Subject: Re: Cunard queens Thaks for the answers on the Cunar liners. As to the question about the first Cunard Queen: Berengaria has been mentioned. If I understand it right, it is from 1920. But there seems to have been a ship called British Queen as early as 1862. Björn Bäcklund IPMS Stockholm, Sweden ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: George Colleen Hargreaves Subject: Thinning Colourcoats Hi, Started to use Colourcoats and thinned with 30% Model Master Airbrush Thinner. I got a great finish and liked the way the Colourcoats went on. After a week I noticed that the Colourcoats with this thinner sort of clumped together in the airbrush bottle. There was a clear layer of thinner over the pigment. I make the assumption that even though I got a great finish, Model Master Airbrush Thinner is not the thinner of choice for Colourcoats paint. So in Canada or North America, what off the paint rack thinners are you using with Colourcoats? Thanks for the assistance. George Hargreaves Calgary Alberta ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Re: Royal Sovereigns: Pieter and Darius 'bout time Darius showed up in this matter. Sorry to be so late in response, but things here in San Diego have been a bit smokey of late. Here on the Point, we are fairly kippered, but much better off than so many. Off line, I suggested to Pieter that the photos are misdated, but one certainly does show a member of the class with upper deck casements and the Victorian scheme. I suggested that "Resolution" may have come out of her refit in January, 1904, with the old scheme because she was recommissioned as guardship at Sheerness. Presuming the dates on Burt's photos are correct (?) she may have been repainted in gray for the April, 1904, manoeuvers. Like Darius, I thought the Victorian scheme went out in 1902, (and none of the Royal Sovereigns had the casemates before 1903 according to Burt) but perhaps it lasted longer for ceremonial purposes? On several occasions, Alan Raven has, en passant, indicated that color during this period was a complicated business. As usual, he's right. Being a Yankee Doodle Dandy and, thus, born under the sign of the Crab, I have temporarily solved the problem by running sideways as fast as I can. I'm building a couple of tanks from the Western Desert Campaign (haven't built a tank since 1973 so it's an interesting experiment). I need to think more on this subject. Of course, one can still just cut off the damned casemates, put shielded guns on the upper deck, and paint the model black, white, and primrose. Alternately, one can simply paint the model gray and stop worrying about it. But what gray? The whole question of the color of RN ships through 1918 is very interesting and truly deserving of serious study. Someone closer to the source of photos should take it on (DP art thou listening?). Even after gray came into general use, there seems to have been no consensus on the shade. Look at the photos collected in the AOTS Dreadnought. She was commissioned in a VERY dark gray, but in less than a year was wearing an obviously much lighter gray and this alternation in shades seems to have gone on into the war years until the entire Grand Fleet, including the Battlecruiser Fleet, was painted in some shades of light gray. But Hood commissioned in a very dark gray again...ehu fugaces! Before any conclusions can be drawn, the proper identification of a photo and its proper date will need to be determined. I am more and more convinced many of the photos appearing in the literature are misdated. We may never be able to determine the exact hue of the colors used, but we may be able to establish the shade used by a particular ship at any particular time. That would be a major advance. Cheers. Pirie Sublett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: m.f.mclaughlin Subject: Re: Roll Call and Ark Royal 1941 Photo's Hi fellow SMMLies, I'm age 39, a small business owner for the last ten years and a life long resident in the state of Maryland. No naval service but, I have been sailing on the comparatively placid Chesapeake Bay (whenever I can find the increasingly elusive time) since I graduated from the Annapolis sailing school in 76. I'm a cumpulsive naval history reader and have a large stack of ocean liner and warship models that I swear to myself I will get too before I turn 65! Thanks to Shane and Mistress Lorna, I have had the very enjoyable privilege of reading from this collective group's depth of knowledge as well as discusing naval history with several of our resident author's. For those of you who haven't completely tired of the discusion on HMS Ark Royal's colours for 1941, I recently bought a copy of the old (OOP) Aircraft Profile #254 on the Fairey Fulmar. This small book has a number of interesting photo's of Ark Royal and other Royal Navy carriers durring the war. One photo of Ark Royal, which is labled as February 1941 (IWM A3735) shows the centerline stripe and other flight deck markings that you can find on the Fleet Air Arm archive web site. The photo that caught my attention in regards to our group discusion on her light/dark hull colours is labled as Operation Tiger (C.J. Woods) in May 1941. This was a crucial convoy that Ark Royal covered that delivered tanks for the desert war at the beginning of May 1941. If this photo is labled correctly, then Ark Royal was painted in her light/dark colours durring the Bismark hunt which took place at the end of that month. Being a fan of the Airfix 1/600 Ark Royal, I'm hoping we as a group can get WEM interested making some new 4.5 gun mounts as well as Skua's and Hurricanes to out fit her! Since I'm dreaming, how about a new 1/600 HMS Illustrious or Victorious for those of us who love this scale. I hope others will join in on this wish! Regards, Miles F. McLaughlin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "lamkeel" Subject: Help Please HMS Lobelia Add a post script to my Roll-Call first. We have two cats Storm and Wanda. (We did have three but Solli (Soloman) met his maker last year, although he too, did draw his pension. I am looking for any information, photographs on HMS Lobelia K 05. Ordered 31st August 1939 (one of 30 of this untried new design) Built by A Hall and completed 16 July 1941. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. Yours "Aye" John Lambert PS Keep these Roll Calls coming, most interesting! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "R Sidford" Subject: Roll Call Richard Sidford, here. USNA ’63, but an Aussie for the last 30 years. Currently living in Pioche, Nevada, pop. 794 – at 6000 feet in the middle of the desert, we haven’t had a navy ship here in quite a while. Working in the Nevada prison system, after a career in the Australian Public Service – mainly fraud control and IT jobs. My wife was very supportive of my hobbies before she died. Have the obligatory two cats. Main interest is early WWII destroyers. Served as an engineering officer 1963-67 aboard USS Eversole (DD-789) and USS Intrepid (CVS-11) off Viet Nam. Also, Royal Australian Naval Reserve 1983 – 2001. Made LT in 1966, given the same rank in RANR. Retired from RANR in 2001 as LEUT – no promotion in 35 years! Have been modeling since my father bought me a Revell car model about 1950; then went into planes. I do remember the Monogram balsa ship models fondly; I also remember using my mother’s melon-baller in a vain attempt to get the hull shapes right – it wasn’t sharp enough. Do a bit of model railroading as well. Currently working on early Fletcher and Sims class DDs. I enjoy the SMML list and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge available among the members. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Diodor Subject: CAD Plans for WWII Subchaser For anyone interested, someone on U.S. west coast has listed Item #3151816348 on E-bay, a set of plans for a WWII SC subchaser. Bidding ends Nov. 3 at 17:47 PST. Ted Treadwell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Arthur Herrick" Subject: Ship Model Club in New Hampshire - Attn. Randy Ward To: Randy Ward and anyone else in New Hampshire or Vermont, Randy wrote 31 Oct.: >> Start a NH ship modelers club, anyone?" << There is a New Hampshire club ... Upper Valley Ship Model Guild, was organized in 2002, and they meet at the Dartmouth - Hitchcock Medical Center, in Lebanon (Hanover area), New Hampshire. I-89, Exit 19, go north on Rte. 10. See signs for DHMC. There are about 20 of us, who's interestets span from the age of sail to modern ships, both large and small. We meet every other month, for about two hours, on Saturday morning at 9:00, with usually about 15 or so in attendence. Contact: Larry O'Toole, E. Thetford, VT. 802 785-2785 or larrytigara@aol.com Join us anytime. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire USA Member: Upper Valley Ship Model Guild USS CONSTITUTION Model Shipwright Guild Nautical Research Guild Mystic Seaport Maine Maritime Museum USS CONSTITUTION Museum Mariners' Museum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume