Subject: SMML VOL 2365 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:46:47 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: CIUDAD DE INCA 2: Re: ASDIC WWII Blindtime 3: Just a thought on the Yamato 4: Re: Nichimo NI2053 1:200 Yamato - no longer made? 5: Re: Fletcher Class Destroyers 6: Re: Fletcher class Destroyers 7: Blind Time 8: ASDIC "blindtime" 9: Nebraska/tractors/etc 10: Re: ASDIC WWII "Blindtime" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/1200 PE 2: Fletcher class Destroyers 3: USS MIDWAY BY LOOSE CANNON ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: CIUDAD DE INCA A big thank you to Tony Mattson for the info on the above (later MARIA ASSUMPTA). I am still curious to know how she got back to UK and/or whether in fact she was seized by US authorities. If anyone else has any word on this I would certainly be pleased to hear. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Allen Stevens" Subject: Re: ASDIC WWII Blindtime ASDIC was only able (from my very rusty memory) to project its 'Ping' fwd of the ship so that when the escort ran over the U boat it lost the contact, U boat commanders knew this and had a VERY short time in which to change direction/depth. After the escort had dropped its charges it had to turn and reaquire the target for another run. When the fwd throwing depth charge mortars came into service they allowed the escort to hold the Uboat in contact this meant that the U boat had less of a chance to get away and probably explains the greater number of depth charge kills later in the war (that and such things as radar, aircraft, better tactics etc). Hope this helps and I am happy to be corrected if I my memory has failed me! Regards Allen Stevens ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: Just a thought on the Yamato The only one I knew of that still had that shipor did have it was Pacific Front hobbies IN Roseburg Oregon USA west coast, I am sure they have a web sight. I got my last 1/250 from them. I have seen the 1/200 kits off and on, But it has been a while, I hope that may help. Don That Portland Rustbucket PS: Try http://www.pacificfront.com/detail.asp?Nichimo|Nichimo!Plastic!Kits|1/200!Scale!Kits ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Gabriel\(DSL\)" Subject: Re: Nichimo NI2053 1:200 Yamato - no longer made? >> I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this subject. I placed an order with Hobby Link Japan to purchase the Nichimo 1/200 IJN Battleship Yamato "Super Real Action" model number NCMU-2053, which was selling for 32,000 Yen. I picked this version cause it was the latest mold version with the R/C gears, lights, small radar motor and instructions (in English) included. After a month and a half of waiting for them to ship it, I was informed through e-mail that Nichimo has discontinued this model indefinitly. Would anyone have any follow-up information about this? Does anyone know if a follow-up to this version of the kit is in the future? << Hi Try ebay, there are three on offer now on at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3156662214&category=4248, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3156351218&category=4248. & http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3157849915&category=4248 this one is ridiculously overpriced! There is also a Doyusha on auction which would support the RC aspect but this kit is not the best representation of the Yamato, too many problems. I have however seen it done justice, with a great deal of effort. Good Luck! Regards, Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael Jurijew" Subject: Re: Fletcher Class Destroyers John: In terms of readily available injection molded plastic kits, your two choices are either the Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher (with the early model round bridge) or either of Tamiya's smaller 1/700 Fletchers (their USS Fletcher with the early model round bridge or their recent USS Cushing with the late model square bridge). IMHO, you want to avoid the Pit Road Skywave USS Callaghan, as it is poor in details and in representing the overall shape and appearance of the Fletchers (though it does give you some interesting options for post-WWII Fletcher bridge modifications). A great reference document is Alan Raven's book on Fletcher Class destroyers. While it is out of print and a bit pricy, it is an indespensible reference in terms of history, modifications, and line drawings. In terms of specific ships, the Squadron publications not too bad for photos. Good on-line sources include Navsource.org and domeisland.com. Good luck and have fun! Mike in Edmonton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SeaWoodies Subject: Re: Fletcher class Destroyers There are several Fletchers still around. The USS Kidd is in Baton Rouge. Unfortunately visitors cannot access the entire ship. I have been informed by the store manager that the director will be at some time in the future providing for sale images on cd for modelers. In the meantime I suggest a search on Google for information. Alan Raven has/had a book out on fletchers. Also try ussnicholas.org., usskidd.com., and hnsa.org.. Hope this helps. Should you come across any specifics on DD656, the Van Valkenburgh please let me know. SeaWoodies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "James Hathaway" Subject: Blind Time To quote Antisubmarine Warfare In WW-2 (available from Amazon, it is a reprint of Report No 51 of the Operations Evaluation Group) The most important factor in this problem is "Blind Time", defined as the time elapsed between reception of the last useful information concerning the submarine's position, and the arrival of the explosives at the predetermined depth. Blind time varys with the weapon, with an ahead thrown weapon such as Hedgehog or Squid, since sonar contact is not lost, the blind time would be the flight time of the projectile plus sinking time, however, with a depth charge attack using stern racks, the submarine would be out of the ship's sonar footprint well before weapons are released and the blind time can add up to several minutes, allowing an ideal opportunity for the submarine to manouver out from under the attack. The destroyer sprinting in to attack is not only to avoid the blast of depth charges, it is an attempt to decrease blind time and render an effective attack as well as to reduce vunerability to counterattack. Jim Hathaway ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ray Cockram Subject: ASDIC "blindtime" Hi Kim Lee, This so called blindtime was caused by the angle of the ASDIC transponder within its dome. Essentially the transponder was fixed at an angle of 45 degrees in early ASDIC'. This translated into a blind spot for the escort vessel as it made its attack run in the following way: As the attacking surface vessel closed with the contact (sub) it would lose contact as the ASDIC pulses passed beyond the contact (ie, as the surface vessel goy closer to the contact), an estimation would then be made of the contacts likely position and weapons then fired. Sort of hit and miss as the ASDIC pointed down and forward and the Depth charges were at the after end of escort vessels. The blind spot "phenomonea" lead to the development of the ahead throwing anti-submarine weapons, initially the Hedgehog, a spigot mortar firing 24 contact fused bombs in a circular pattern a few hundred yards ahead of the vessel. This allowed for continuous ASDIC coverage during the attack. Later versions of the ahead throwing weapons such as the Squid three barreled mortar were slaved to a simple computer within the ASDIC set that allowed range and depth settings to be automatically set in the bomb prior to firing. This allowed for extremely acyrate attacks on sunmerged targets. I reccomend you try and get hold of the book, "Corvettes of the Royal Canadian Navy 1939-1945" by Ken Macpherson and Marc Milner, there are some very interesting articles about ASW and the weapons. Alternatively you can do a web search on ASDIC or to save time you could go this url: http://uboat.net/allies/ Once on the page click on the Weapons & Techn heading. I hope this is of some help. Cheers Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Chris Christenson" Subject: Nebraska/tractors/etc In regards to tractor models, there are some incredibly detailed die cast models of various implements that are made by Ertl. When I was a kid I had a set of farm stuff that would rival the biggest operation this side of the corn belt. Unfortunately I used them and after a time they all disappeared--they'd be worth something now I bet. Oh, and by the way Cap'n I am an alumnus of the University of Nebraska (class of '84) also known as the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL). The UNL stands for the University of NO LOSING!!! No comments from OK and TX please:) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JOHN BURCH Subject: Re: ASDIC WWII "Blindtime" >> Can anyone explain whats the reason of the so called "Blindtime" phenomena. All I know it is when an Escort vessel looses contact with its ASDIC on a Uboat, its is about to attack with Depth charges and therefore the Escort vessel has to make a sprint on the last leg of it's attack run. << I believe that this is the "Maintenance of Close Contact" (MCC) problem. Modern Sonars use multiple horizontal and vertical transducer elements (in a barrel arrangement) to form one or more search or track beams. In Direct Path, the individual sonar beams are pretty much horizontal with a vertical and horizontal beamwidth of say, 10 degrees (Note that this can vary considerably depending on the specific sonar system, the frequency band in use and the beamforming arrangements). However, for a target at any reasonably long range, the sonar beam is essentially horizontal. When the target gets close, the modern sonar provides for changing the beamforming arrangement using the vertical transducer elements to depress the beam and so continue to track the target. Concurrently, the beam is "detuned" to broaden the vertical beamwidth. Since the range is now short, there should be plenty of signal excess to allow for doubling the vertical beamwidth at this point and still maintain track on the target. In WW II, the original ASDIC, I believe, used a single transducer element to generate a single horizontal beam (a donut shape). Whatever the vertical beamwidth of the ASDIC system, there was a range at which the target aspect changed from being essentially horizontal to the escort, as it were, to being below the escort. When the target got below the vertical beamwidth of the ASDIC, it was no longer detectable. This is the "Blindtime" as the target moves below the escort's sonar beam. The same phenomenon occurred with later "Searchlight" type Sonars used by the USN and RN in WW II and in the late '40s and into the '50s. The problem was due to the lack of vertical transducer elements necessary for forming a depressed vertical beam. The WW II solution to the problem was to develop and deploy ahead-thrown ASW weapons like Hedgehog that could be fired at a submarine before it disappeared below the sonar beam. The existence of a strong vertical temperature layer in the water between the escort and a close-in target further compounds the problem by causing most of the sonar signal to reflect off the layer and away from the target. The solution to this part of the MCC problem is to further depress the vertical beam and increase the power of the sonar transmission. Hope this answers the question, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: 1/1200 PE >> Does anyone on the group know if I can get 1/1200 photoetch enhancements for WW2 subjects in the UK, or similarly can you get resin or metal parts, it seems daft getting a couple fo dollars worth from the states? << Hi Richard, The closest dealers to UK, who has my stuff in stock are Wiedling @ http://www.wiedling.de/ or NNT Model @ http://www.nntmodell.com/. They are both from Germany. You can also order directly from me @ http://navalismodels.com/. The shipping costs from USA are not high for small packages. Regards, Sami Arim/Navalis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Rusty White Subject: Fletcher class Destroyers >> Also, does anybody know where can I find the after market detailing material (photo-etched, and resin detail parts) I have heard of in the different scales I have: 1:700, 1:720 and 1:350-scale. << Flagship Models makes detail sets to fit the Fletcher class in 1/700 and 1/350. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. flagshipmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "david angelo" Subject: USS MIDWAY BY LOOSE CANNON To All, Loose Cannon East is pleased to announce the future release of our newest 1/700 resin kit: USS Midway 1945! This is the “as built” fit with 20MM & 40MM AA armament. Jim Strauss has completed the master and it is now in hand at our Florida back room cottage factory. This model features a cast resin hull complete to the flight deck level, a laser cut Lexan flight deck, 12 each Helldivers & Corsair aircraft, decals for both Midway & FDR, plus photoetch. The PE will include propellers & landing gear for the air group, plus the many radars, antenna, railings, 40MM shields and other such details. At this point the photoetch is under development and list member help is requested. More to scale photo etch 20MM cannon instead of the oversize cast resin types are being considered, what would you prefer? Send your input to fuelmann@hotmail.com Please put MIDWAY in the subject line. so I know it’s not junk mail. A release date and price have not yet been determined, how long it takes to get the decals & PE done & in hand will be the limiting factors. Photos & scans of the master can be seen on the Loose Cannon Website starting Monday evening. (Click on the Loose Cannon logo on the Steelnavy or Modelwarships home page) All The Best, David Angelo LCP East http://home.earthlink.net/~loosecannonproductions/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume