Subject: SMML VOL 2370 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:25:41 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: minesweeping 2: Master & Commander 3: Re: Aeronaut Bismark 4: Re: Kriegsmarine colour 5: Aeronaut Kriegsmarine Kits 6: Re: ARIZONA 7: Verlinden Hunley Kit 1/32 8: USS Arizona 9: In search of Guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "bert" Subject: Re: minesweeping >> This is a question that has intrigued me for a while and comes up because of an interest in miniature naval wargaming. I started buying models in the small scales used for naval wargaming several years ago and now that I have changed lifestyle and no longer travel, I want to get back into this. I bought a few WWII Royal Navy minesweepers thinking that they would provide some more varied and interesting scenarios, but wanted to try and base them so that when the bases of the minesweepers touched they would accurately depict a line of minesweepers clearing a channel through a large minefield or as they might have a done in sweeping ahead of a large formation of ships. However, despite some success at picking up source material on minesweeping I still have not found any source that would answer the question: was there a standard interval of distance between minesweepers when they operated together to clear a large field or a channel through a large field? So, can anyone here tell me whether there was a standard interval - or not? Tell me what a standard interval would have been? Or steer me in the direction of a source? << Admiralty manual of seamanship vol 2 pages 433-453 contains all you would ever want to know about minesweeping from the English point of view it includes instructions and drawings illustrating the methods used up to that time by the R.N. It's possible a copy could be made for you of the relevant pages. Yours Aye (TaT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Stuart Batchelor" Subject: Master & Commander My two cents worth. I thought it was a good movie. Plot wise, it very loosely follows the O'Brian book "Far Side of the World" with bits and pieces of other books thrown in. If you are a O'Brian purist this is not the movie for you. If you are in to good, well done sea stories, I think you will enjoy the movie. HTH, Stuart Batchelor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Re: Aeronaut Bismark hi Tony. You were asking about Aeronaut's Bismark. I built the Aeronaut Tirpitz a few years ago. Essentially the same kit with a few modifications. The hull is deeper in scale than the real thing so as to house radio control equipment. This it is a semi-kit in that you get a hull, moulded guns, cranes, aircraft, radar domes etc. But you have to utilise the various pieces of shaped timber to build the bridge structure etc. A good set of plans come with the kit, that are not over detailed. Pays to buy up a few books on Bismark or use Tamiya's Bismark in 1:350 for reference. The funnel structure also needs to be shaped out of a piece of timber (unless they have moulded a plastic one in the last few years!) Deck is or was timber, so there is a lot of work for you to do as a modeller. (I ended up using sheet plastic, scribing the timber planks with a scalpel). The result is a fairly robust model that can be put in and out of the water many times without breaking. The hand rails are extremely tough for this purpose. To really do them justice you could get Gold Medal 1:200 scale railing and put that on to make a more delicate looking model. I built Tirpitz back in the 80's and then several years later cut the hull down to waterline and put the ship in a sea diorama. The result was pleasing but still a chunky looking model. It would be up to you to create the finesse you want in the small detail. The 20mm guns are just too chunky whatever you do to them for a "In The Glass Case Model." Expensive? Yes. Worth the build. No. But you may have other ideas on this. Remember, the devil is in the detail, the wisdom is in the experience. Go for it, but Tamiya's 1:350 (if static is what you want) is still best value for money around and fits into you living room. cheers, Graeme Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: Kriegsmarine colour I think there are two or three shades of Seegrau, and it is similar or identical to U boat Schlickgrau. They may be the same above water colors. See http://jpsmodell.de/dc/shemes/dmubootww2.htm Tamiya AS 11 is called Schlickgrau by some as well as Seegrau by others. Also White Ensign KM 15 is Schlickgrau. http://sandlehobbies.com/paint/colourcoatnaval.html Ulrich Rudofsky ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joel Labow Subject: Aeronaut Kriegsmarine Kits >> I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the 1:200 Bismarck from Aeronaut? What is the quality of the kit, does it have enough detail (or can it be easily modified)? Also, I was wondering if the detail package (that you pay extra for), does it contain enough accesories to make this old model a fairly detailed Bismarck? << Tony, I had the opportunity to take a good look at an Aeronaut Bismarck kit a few years ago. These kits have been around a long time...I remember seeing them in shops in the late 50's. The hull is a thick vacuforming with no external details. I didn't have plans to compare it to but it seemed pretty crude to me. In particular the area of the stern where the shafts enter the hull was grossly out of scale. Wood stiffeners were provided to strengthen the hull and the decks and superstructure componenents were hardwood. The kit I looked at had been opened so I'm not sure which parts were provided with the basic kit and which were in the detail package but there were lots of brass fittings. The turrets were precarved wood with turned brass barrels. Bottom Line: As a 'stand-off scale' R/C model it wouldn't be too bad but IMHO it would be a truly herculean task to make it into an accurate scale model. For starters you would probably have to come close to scratch-building the hull. The detail was far below the quality of the Nichimo 1/200 Yamato (which in fairness is a much newer kit). If you would care to contact me off list I can put you in touch with a fellow in Germany who has assembled the Aeronaut Admiral Scheer. Best regards, Joel Labow ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Hank Lapa" Subject: Re: ARIZONA ARIZONA remains on the Navy List (of its ships), but not in commission. This is so that no later ship can take her name. "USS" still applies, unlike a ship that has been stricken, where it is dropped. Hank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: AAA Hobby Supply Subject: Verlinden Hunley Kit 1/32 We just saw the new Verlinden announcements in a print ad for January, and they are showing a 1/32 CSS Hunley model. The photo appears to be in the correct configuration as recovered and undgoing restoration. The price was listed as $49.95 - it looks like this will be a great kit. I will keep you updated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: andrew jones Subject: USS Arizona It seems that from people i have heard say different things... yes it, not its not ..it was a special act of congress to still allow the USS & the stars & stripes navy detachment etc ... But what i remember of the last time i was at Pearl ,which was a few years ago..that it is not on the US navy list of ships, but if my memory serves me correct...its listed as a national park & not on the US Navy register, but the navy treat it as shrine to Pearl Harbour, hence the navy duty of the flag rising ceremony....i may be wrong, but thats what i seem to remember ..& if im wrong ..im wrong regards Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Harold Stockton" Subject: In search of Guns With the growing number of 1/72 scale models to work with; like the Flower class Corvette, upcoming Revell Type VII U-boat, two E- or S-boats, Vospers, and American and Russian PTs, there is a growing question about fitting them with replacement barrels for their armament or their complete replacement with more detailed weapons. A recommendation was made a little while back about the use of 1/76 replacement barrels from Milliput, a very fine company with very detailed models, for the upcoming Revell Type VII U-boat's armament. While it may seem that this is not too much of a concern to use 1/76 scale barrels or weapons on a 1/72 scale vessel, there are some fundamental problems of scale difference to consider. These same problems are faced by modelers of tanks and helicopters when they are looking at the two scales of 1/35 and 1/32; the former being the accepted military scale, while the latter is the aircraft modelers choice. The actual scale difference between 1/76 and 1/72 is 1.06%; not that much difference when first looked at, but quite a lot when viewed perspectively. Simplisticaly, a 20mm weapon in 1/76 becomes a 18.87mm weapon, a 37mm becomes a 34.9 mm, and a 88mm becomes a 83mm. I know that this seems like I am splitting hairs over a very small matter, but anyone who has seen 1/76 scale armor next to the same vehicle in 1/72 will immediately know of what I am speaking of. The above mentioned difference between 1/35 and 1/32 scales is only 1.09%, and you can deffinitely see the same disparity of scales. So what is one to do in order to detail their model armament needs? If you are just going to replace the model's plastic barrels with 1/76 scale hollow aluminum ones it may pass okay in the finished model. Staying with 1/72 scale barrels or the complete weapon would be preferable though. One might consider using barrels or weapons from the Polish Armo company found on Jadar's website at: http://www.jadar.com.pl/start-a.htm Miliput's crews and other accessories might be considered to finish off other aspects of your model, but staying as much with 1/72 scale items are definitely the way to go. Armo's 1/72 scale barrels are about $3.00, while a complete Armo 72072 - 2cm Flak 38 resin model kit with metal gun barrel is &15.10. An Armo 72074 - 2cm Flakvierling 38 AA Gun resin model kit with metal gun barrels, and the same company's 72075 - 37mm Flak 37 AA Gun resin model kit with turned metal gun barrel are also available for the same price. This same company makes some very fine 1/72 scale accessories also. For those who wish to have turned and hollow barrels for your weapons might try Aber's products at about $5 to $6 each for an 88mm barrel. For those wanting to model the 88mm weapon, the Airfix, Hasegawa, or Italieri kits might be used as a starting basis, but one might want to start with the Polish Mars company's #7219 - BUSSING NAG 900L with 88mm FLAK 18 resin model kit for $27.36, a real beauty. The MarS company also makes some very fine acccessories to consider. The Mars #7242 - Horch 108/1a with Flak 38 resin model kit with metal gun barrel for $30.21 might also be considered, as the model comes with 800 shells and a crew of seven soldiers. A quad Flak 38 in 1/72 is made by Military Wheels, # 7224, for $7.98. In the end, one can really come up with some very interesting ways to further improve their 1.72 scale modeling by looking around a little. Also in 1/72 scale ship modeling, the Moldavian company of AER, model number R7234, WW-II Soviet armored gunboat in resin for $16.53. USD Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume