Subject: SMML VOL 2381 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:43:05 +0000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: U.S. Marine Corps officers 2: Re: USMC Officers 3: Re: WARSHIP (the publication) 4: Re: Warship Special Editions 5: The Marines Are Part of the Navy 6: Re: U.S. Marine Corps officers 7: Re: Italian Hydrofoil - Sparviero (Swordfish) 8: Re: paint 9: Re: RAN Colours 10: Re: WARSHIP (the publication) 11: Marine Corps officers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New online mail order Hobby shop www.TaskForceHobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Phil" Subject: Re: U.S. Marine Corps officers >> Well, I guess it is time to start another thread. Here goes. Why does the U.S. Marine Corps draw its Academy educated career-oriented officers primarily from the Naval Academy and not from the Military Academy? It seems to me that generally what the Marines (on the ground, at least) do professionally is more like what the Army does than what the Navy does. Here is a good opportunity for SMML to (patiently, please) objectively enlighten we uninformed but interested unfortunates. No "other services" bashing, please. << Hi Franklyn. US Marines are actually a part of the Navy. Besides storming beaches and guarding embassies and Naval bases around the world, they are used on certain ships as shipboard security forces, and quick mobilization forces. Phil ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: USMC Officers Hello franklyn, By the way, am enjoying your articles on sub chasers in the NRG. As you probably are aware, the USMC comes under the aegis of the Department of the Navy. At some point in their four year education at USNA, midshipmen are allowed to make a choice of accepting a commission in the Navy or Marines. I do not remember at what point they can make the decision but I understand that there is considerable custom and ceremony involved. I believe that attendees at the various military academies have the option to accept a commission in a different service than the one in which they have been schooled. I know of at least one USNA graduate that elected to be commissioned in the USAF. Al Blevins ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: WARSHIP (the publication) >> In addition to the issues listed in the Index (for which many thanks), there were two SPECIAL EDITIONS (not numbered) during the early years, perhaps concurrent with Volume III or IV. These were about the same size as the quarterly issue, but featured red and green spot colour on the cover rather than blue. One (Green, I think) was titled Super Destroyers with articles on French Contre-Torpilleurs, German Zerstörers Z-1 to Z-56 and Sp1-3, Japanese Fubuki class and successor large boats, UK Tribal class, and others. I cannot recall the title of the other (red) Special edition. << The other was actually the first "Special" and was titled "Battlecruisers". I think they tried to put to much into one small book, leaving a lot out and not making the books anywhere near comprehensive for my taste. They are still worth having! Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: Warship Special Editions >> I cannot recall the title of the other (red) Special edition. << It was entitled Battlecruisers - cover both the British and German battlecruisers of the First War. Nat Richards ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joel Labow Subject: The Marines Are Part of the Navy Franklyn, Jacky Fisher during the early days of WW1 famously remarked that the British Army "ought to be a projectile launched by the Navy." That in essence is the role of the USMC. Organizationally they are part of the Navy, they are carried to their areas of operations in Navy ships and they receive much of their essential combat support (such as logistics and medical) from the Navy. While the Marines have infantry and armor their doctrines and concept of operations are very different from those of the Army and USMC aviation squadrons are organized identically with their Navy counterparts. In sum, USMC officers need to understand the Navy way of doing things far more than Army procedures. BTW, probably more 'career-oriented' USMC officers come from Navy ROTC and the USMC officer candidate school in Quantico, Virginia than from the Academy. Best regards, Joel Labow Captain, USN (ret'd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Sills O'Keefe" Subject: Re: U.S. Marine Corps officers The main reason is that the Marine Corps comes under the administrative auspices of the Department of the Navy. Indeed, it was basically a part of the Navy until the last 50 years or so. Marines still use naval terminology on a daily basis. Their buildings all have bulkheads, decks, overheads, and portholes and they welcome you aboard when you visit their bases. Finally, they may be infantry, but they are officially Naval Infantry and spend an awful lot of time afloat in the Navy's Gators. That being said, everyone knows the BEST Marine officers were educated not at the Naval Academy, but at the Virginia Military Institute (alma mater to LtGen L.B. "Chesty" Puller '21 and Commandants Gen. L.C. Shepherd '17 and Gen. R.McC. Pate '21). ;-) HTH, J. Sills O'Keefe VMI '93 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Les Brown" Subject: Re: Italian Hydrofoil - Sparviero (Swordfish) Patrick I have some articles from Navy International of 1972 which included a 3-view line drawing. It would be easier to photocopy than scan so let me have your postal address. Regards Les Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Fox, John" Subject: Re: paint John Sheridan replied: >> Unfortunately, your Spruance probably WILL look a bit odd when compared to the other ships painted with Colourcoats. The reason for this is that the Floquil Marine Paints were intended to match USN WW2 colors, not modern colors (and they weren't terribly accurate for WW2). So you've got your Spruance in the wrong color to begin with. << Thanks for replying John. The Floquil colors I used were light gray for the vertical surfaces, medium gray for the decks and dark gray for the nonskid areas. These are the neutral grays, not the purple-blues. I thought theses neutrals were modern colors. I know neutrals were reintroduced toward the end of WW2. Were these colors of the Floquil paints (light, med and dark gray) supposed to be those WW2 neutrals? Thanks again for your help. John Fox ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: M Brown Subject: Re: RAN Colours I've checked again and the RAN has not changed it's weatherworks colours at all, still Storm Grey. Any apparent differences could be the result of the type of paint, angle viewed and general wear & tear. I didn't see the original request re RAN colours (####!@%^ computer problems!), but if parts seemed to be different on one ship, the RAN use french grey (BS381C 630 aka AS2700 N24 Silver Gret) as an undercoat. Deck colours were changed a little while ago. The R.A.N. stopped using FS36076 as their deck paint in 2001 and have reverted to AS2700 N63 Pewter alias BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey. Ships coming out of refit or new build are wearing this colour. The info comes from International Paints who supply the RAN. The RAN put me in touch with their account manager as the PR Department has no idea what colours the RAN ships are painted! Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "rtorgeson" Subject: Re: WARSHIP (the publication) There were two Warship Specials also published, # 1 was Battle Cruisers, British and Garman battlecruisers of the First World War era. It was by NJM Campbell. #2 was Super Destroyers; the big destroyers built in the 1930s for Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States by Antony Preston. Roger Torgeson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: BGMarshall@aol.com Subject: Marine Corps officers I have never served in the uniform of my country (my loss). However, my nephew just graduated from the US Naval Academy (Class of 2003) and was commissioned a 2nd LT in the Marines continuing a long family history of naval service. The question concerning the professional education of the USMC officer corps at the Naval Academy rather than the Military Academy is not new and will probably be hashed out as long as the respective institutions exist. There are a number of exceptional Marines that started their careers as members of the Long Gray Line. My first thought is, administratively, the Marine Corps is actually part of the Navy Department of the Defense Department and has been part of the Navy since the birth of the Corps. In some countries, Marines are referred to as Naval Infantry. The US Marines fought from Navy warships, were landed from Navy warships and guarded Navy warships and naval installations. And like any good government agency, the Navy is not going to let the Army get their hands on the Marines in any fashion. Especially after the mess with Harry Truman and the revolt of the admirals (VERY interesting reading). During that period of time, the Army made a strong play to have the Marine Corps incorporated into the Army as an additional division. Marine Air would have gone to the Air Force. It was close, but it did not happen. At the Naval Academy, the education of the midshipman is the same for future Navy and Marine officers. Most of the mids will enter the academy thinking strongly one way or another. By law, the Naval Academy is not allowed to produce more Marine officers then 10% of the graduating class. In some past classes, mids wanting to be Marines had to accept a Navy commission. The competition is based on class standing, not the desire of the individual. For his required cruise on a naval ship (2nd year summer), my nephew asked to be assigned to one of the 'phibs. His wish was granted when he got orders for the USS Mount Vernon (an LSD). Between their 3rd and 4th year at the academy, the mids wanting to be Marines took summer training at Quantico, Virginia. Basically a shortened version of what they would be facing after graduation. There is one element of Marine training the Army has not embrassed: every Marine a rifleman. Don't matter if your flying a chopper, fixing a chopper, cooking chow, driving a truck or takin' out the garbage. Every Marine is a rifleman. Officers and enlisted. Some of the student officers in my nephew's class at Quantico are destined for Pensacola to become naval aviators (there's that "Navy" word again). Before they go, the student officers are made to understand what it is to lead a platoon of men in combat (at least as far as Quantico can go). Marine pilots understand exactly what their counterparts on the ground are thinking when close air support is called in. That understanding will stay with them their entire Marine career. As an example, the Marine air group's mechanics and administrative personnel onboard a LSD or LPH are organized and exercise as a provisional platoon in case their services are needed on the beach. History has proven the validity of the concept. Army thinking is not in the direction of current Marine Corps training or thinking. That is not good or bad, just the way it is. I am told that recently the US Army is investigating the concept of "everyone a rifleman." Given the current thinking of a leaner and meaner force, it might be a good idea. I am interesting in your reaction to any or all of this. Chip Marshall Silver Spring, Maryland USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Billgior@aol.com Subject: New online mail order Hobby shop www.TaskForceHobbies.com Hi: Everyone Bill Giordano here to let you know there is a new online mail order hobbyshop, TaskForceHobbies.com. We specialize in Ship models from 1/350 to 1/700 scale. We do carry Aircraft, and Spacecraft models also. Armour and car models can be ordered upon request. We carry Resin ship models, Books, and Photo-etch ship model sets also. For those of you who love sailing ship models this months christmas special is. Heller Hms Victory w/anatomy of the ship book w/paint set for $170.00. one in stock, so come and check us out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume