Subject: SMML VOL 2383 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:29:01 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re HMS Dreadnought armament 2 Re Canberra 3 French to retire new carrier? 4 Charles De Gaulle carrier 5 Greetings 6 Re FKBrown Merry Christmas 7 Re U.S. Marine Corps officers 8 Re Marine Corps Air Support 9 Re Marine officers 10 Uss Arizona after the the attack? 11 USS PANAY PR 5 attacked and sunk 66 years ago today 12 Battle of Feline Bay 13 Re RN Carriers Old Colour Schemes 14 1/350 Arizona Kit Choice 15 WR Press Woes 16 white paint problem 17 Re Dragon 1/700 Ticonderoga Class 18 Re USMC officers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Bounty Launch 2 New WEM 1/700 Kirov Class Cruiser Set 3 Revell 1/72 PT Boat Detail ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From mflake@airmail.net Subject Re HMS Dreadnought armament Pick up a box of the Seals Model Early RN/IJN Equipment set. Besides the light guns, it also has a whole slew of period boats for your boat deck. Marc Flake ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From " David and Alison Muir" Subject Re Canberra >> My apologies for the lack of SMMLs over the past 3 days - I was unable to send them out due to needing to upgrade the email program and being away visiting two country Model clubs - ACTSMS & Orange model clubs (well the ACT is in the country isn't it ;-) ). << Shane, Most of us think Canberra is a State of Mind rather than a place and probably not on this planet let alone in the country. ;~) David M (who could not resist) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From William Weckel Subject French to retire new carrier? I've seen pics of both French and US E-2's shooting and trapping on the CDG, but I can't say whether this was just photo-op material or operational stuff. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "L'Arsenal" Subject Charles De Gaulle carrier Hello, To my knowledge the Charles De Gaulle is now fully operational and gives complete satisfaction to the French Navy. The carrier was operating some months ago in cooperation with the US Navy for anti talibans strikes in Afganisthan and everything went OK with her. The Rafale fighter proved to be a formidable opponent for US naval pilots during training exercices, the Super Etendard did some strikes without any problems and the E-2C gave a very efficient radar cover to the French task Force. So problems encountered during the trials of this new carrier are now long gone and there are absolutely no reasons for an early retirement for her. She still has the propellers of Clemenceau that give correct service ( just a bit more noisy, and a top speed a bit lower than expected, but with no operational problem for launching and recovering the aircrafts ) The French Navy is studying a possible collaboration with the Royal Navy for a series of new carriers, but it is probable that the carriers will be quite different in external aspect, but will share many common systems that will be developped in collaboration by the two navies. Best regards from Normandie, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Ransford Subject Greetings Due to an e-mail problem have missed the last few journals - Will have to wait until they appear on the SMML archives. Now I'm "back on-line" I thought I'd be the first(?) to wish all at the SMML Web site and the thousands of you "Out there" the seasons greetings, or, as we say here in Wales- Nadalig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd da.!! PS That's the original Wales not the new one in the Antipodes! Yours Aye Ransford "Taff" Rogers CPO R.N. (rtd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject Re FKBrown Merry Christmas And a happy holiday to Mr. Brown. Sitting here in San Diego missing Maine. Especially this time of the year. Pirie Sublett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Dizzydismal@cs.com Subject Re U.S. Marine Corps officers Don't forget that the Marines also borrow Corpsmen and Chaplains from the Navy. Dennis Disbrow Former FMF Corpsman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Dizzydismal@cs.com Subject Re Marine Corps Air Support If you need close air support (real, real close air support), you want Marine flyers. Nobody plants their weaponry on the enemy like Marine Air. Since they get the infantry training, they know what is needed and where to put it. Dennis Disbrow Former FMF Corpsman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From O'Connor Subject Re Marine officers The post from Mr. Irvine about the USNA being inferior academically to the other academies is a bit extreme and totally off base. I challenge the self procalimed nerd to apply to any US service academy. They all stress the well-rounded individual- mind, body and spirit being the combination of assets a cadet/midshipman needs to attend, lead and succeed. Certainly no academy is an athletic oriented organization, and that is proven handily by the fact that Army and Navy have not won major national sporting championships since the WWll era, when they were truly competitive in football. They all compete athletically, but are much more academically oriented, and are centered on accepting the applicant who provides the best leadership qualities to the schools. Athletics, indeed- look a bit closer and find out what the service academies are really all about, and stop with the better than thou! None of the schools are perfect. USNA wallowed for years with required steam engineering classes after the Navy had ditched steam powered ships for nucs and turbines. New thinking changed that, and the USNA is much more in tune with the academic needs of the Navy today. These schools build and develop leaders, not doctors. There is no med school, law school, etc. All the academies are primarily technologically oriented and to suggest they are jock shops is ignorant in the extreme. Bob O'Connor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "Pwesty" Subject Uss Arizona after the the attack? Hi List This past weekend being the 7 of December there was a lot of stuff on TV about the attack of Pearl Harbor. I was wondering if anybody could tell me what ever happen to the upper part of the wreck Arizona, the stuff that you see in all of the pictures after the attack? I know that some small part of the ship are lying on a out of way place some where in the harbor but I would very much like to know what ever happen to most of the superstructure did the navy dump it all in to sea? THANK;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From "Arthur Herrick" Subject USS PANAY PR 5 attacked and sunk 66 years ago today USS PANAY PR 5 was attacked by Japanese naval aircraft and sunk 66 years ago today LEST WE FORGET!! ... the first US Navy ship to be attacked and sunk by hostile aircraft ... which is now referred to as "The PANAY Incident"... and which turned out to be the prelude to Pearl Harbor, four years later on another Sunday in December. On a Sunday morning at 1100, 12 Dec. 1937, 28 miles above Nanking, China on the Yangtze River ........ The US Navy's Yangtze River Patrol gunboat USS PANAY PR 5 anchored with her convoy of three Sacony Oil Co. oil tankers and their thirteen auxillary vessels. As neutral vessels in the Sino/Japanese war, PANAY was escorting the Sacony convoy out of harms way as the Japanese occupied Nanking in what is now known as "The Rape of Nanking". It was 1335 and the crew had finished their Sunday dinner and most had settled in for a nap, when 24 Japanese aircraft attacked the anchored PANAY and her Sacony convoy. It seems that Col. Kingoro Hasimoto, the local Japanese Army commander, had ordered Japanese naval aircraft to attack all ships up-river of Nanking, saying they carried Chinese troops fleeing Nanking. The first bomb, from a B4Y1 high level bomber, hit PANAY forward of her pilot house,knocking out her radio and pilot house, and when the engine and boiler room began to flood from another bomb hit, the duty man blew the boiler safety valve, literaly taking her out of action. Panay's crew fought back as best they could with their eight 30cal Lewis guns; but by 1405 the attacking aircraft had run out of bombs and strafing ammunition, and the abandon ship order was given for the still anchord and sinking PANAY. The crew escaped ashore in the PANAY's two sampans, which were attacked by strafing fighter aircraft,and after a harrowing late afternoon and two days ashore, with the Japanese hunting for them in vain, the crew was rescued by American and British gunboats and taken to Shanghai. Two of PANAY's crewmen and an Italian newsman lost their lives and a majority of the crew was wounded in the attack. Referenced reading The PANAY Incident, by Hamilton Darby Perry, The Macmillan Co. Toronto,1969. I wrote a short two page history of the US Navy's Yangtze Patrol and The PANAY Incident, which accompanied Iron Shipwright's 1192 kit of PANAY. The portion covering the attack on, and sinking of PANAY is summarized above from this paper. Art Herrick Westmoreland NH USA Member Yangtze River Patrol Assoc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "raymond guy" Subject Battle of Feline Bay Good Morning All (8.50 AM South African Time) I am probably going to collect a raspberry from someone for using this heading again!! Belfast is proceeding well and Ajax, Hood & Nelson are awaiting the arrival of the PE from WEM. The reason for this mail is that I have a copy of AOT The Intrepid which I want to dispose of anyone interested please contact me off-list. Have just acquired an excellent book on Naval Warfare edited by Richard Humble for anyone interested this covers the major naval engagements from Salmis to the Falklands and contains potted biographies of all the naval commanders of note, It is well illustrated and highly informative.( I have nothing to do with the publication of this book or it's promotion). It is a welcome addition to my naval history library. To Dave in Dixie need to borrow one of your cats Dave some of my Belfast PE has gone AWOL. To Tony with the two ageing moggies, slippers would be a fine idea but what about the claws? Merry Christmas to one and All ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "M Brown" Subject Re RN Carriers Old Colour Schemes A 1973 article on the Eagle has her main flight deck as BS381C 632 (Dark Admiralty Grey) and the landing area as either black or 640 Extra Dark Sea Grey (RN frigates used the 640 sometimes for their flight decks, you can see in some photos that this area is darker than the rest of the decks) Spot markings > White Centreline marking > Flame orange Service points > Light Blue 109 Avcat positions > brown 414 Fire points > red 537 Barrier areas > black/yellow stripe 358 Jet blast deflectors > red/white 537 Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Gabriel\(DSL\)" Subject 1/350 Arizona Kit Choice Hi I'm looking to build the 1/350 scale Arizona does anyone have any thoughts on what is the best choice of kit here? Also does anyone have a spare copy of the WEM 1/350 Arizona etched brass instruction sheet they could share with me I've misplaced mine. Thanks Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From John Snyder Subject WR Press Woes For anyone who has been trying to reach WR Press or Mr. WR, he's asked me to let everyone know that he's been--and still is--under the weather. He'll return to the boards as soon as he's able. Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com for secure online ordering. For the latest news from WEM, Click Here http//www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/whats_new1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From Subject white paint problem Hi Chaps I need help, I have a Skytex River Class I want to finish her in a Western Approches scheme, I have the approriate WEM colours, however white paint is a bugger to apply any suggestions about getting a solid coat? All the best and Hearts of Oak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From David Wells Subject Re Dragon 1/700 Ticonderoga Class Michael McMurtrey wrote >> Okay, Smellies, I need some help. << Don't we all? -) >> How many different versions of this kit are there? << It depends on what you think is a different "version". If you're talking about different decals and different box art, then certainly there are a large number. In fact, since I'm working on Rajen's List version 6.3, maybe the other SMMLlies could help me out a bit. I've seen it re-issued as Ticonderoga (kit 7018} and Mobile Bay, (kit 7035} and Normandy. (kit 7018) If there are any others that I don't know about, please let me know! Anyhow, I suspect that you're really asking what variations there are in the plastic. I think that the kit allows you to build any Ticonderoga class. >>> I have USS Normandy, which has extra parts marked 'not used' on the instruction sheet. It's obvious these parts are for a different subclass of this type, but which ones? I need a copy of the instruction sheet for the other version(s) of this kit, if it/they exist (presumably USS Ticonderoga, per Rajendra's list of ship kit reviews, but I'm just guessing). << CG-47-51 should use the Mk 26 rail launchers, CG-52 on should use the VLS array. The first few ships have quadrapod masts. The later ones have tripod masts. IIRC, the kit provides both. This kit also should have one sprue from the old SkyWave E-1 set, which should provide a whole bunch of other interesting spare parts, such as 5"L54 mk 42 guns, 3" OTO Melera guns, Sea Sparrows, ASROC launchers etc. If you don't know what to do with your spare parts, send them to me, and I'll find some evil purposes for them! -) "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http//home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From MDDoremus@aol.com Subject Re USMC officers I was surprised to see that other US service academy grads were prevented from becoming Marine Corps officers. I did hear once that the Corps was allowed to accept up to 10% of a graduating class from the USNA, but was frequently unable to find enough "qualified" applicants. I think I heard this from a '75 grad who did enter the Corps from Anapolis as an avatior Mark Doremus St. Louis, MO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "David L. Fisher" Subject Bounty Launch I am interested in buying a Marine Model Co. kit for the Bounty launch. If any member of this group has one they are willing to part with please contact me at dfisher@bcpl.net. Thanks in advance. Dave Fisher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From John Snyder Subject New WEM 1/700 Kirov Class Cruiser Set "Mad Peter" Hall's latest creation, PE 751 arrived today, and will begin shipping on Monday, with pre-orders taking priority. Most of the initial run is already sold, so order now if you don't want to wait for the second run. The set, which covers all the ships of the class, is priced at £11.02, post-free worldwide. Have a look at http//img6.photobucket.com/albums/v16/johnwem/wempe751.jpg Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com for secure online ordering. For the latest news from WEM, Click Here http//www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/whats_new1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From John Snyder Subject Revell 1/72 PT Boat Detail This subject keeps coming up from time to time. We've considered doing aftermarket details, since this kit's been around for a long time and stays in production. Here's the rub In the last year, we've sold exactly 0--that's zero--Revell 1/72 PT boat kits. Now, that's not exactly the greatest incentive to put details into production. Still, we've talked it over and have the following proposition If 50 of you out there will pony up your credit card numbers (no charges made until we actually ship your order) and make a firm commitment to purchase, we'll design a PE set for the kit as-is. If that effort seems to justify itself, we'll look into other conversion parts such as weapons, etc. If you're interested enough to commit, e-mail Caroline at wem@onetel.net.uk Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com for secure online ordering. For the latest news from WEM, Click Here http//www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/whats_new1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume