Subject: SMML VOL 2392 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:27:11 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Supply vessels 2 Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter 3 Re RN Cruisers 4 Re USCG Secretary class 5 Re WPG/AGC/WHEC-33 USCGC Duane 6 WWI Naval Losses 7 Concrete Ships 8 Whaleback RAF launches 9 Secretary class cutter 10 Advice for some kits 11 Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter 12 U -Boat crew 13 Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter 14 Re Concrete Ships 15 Re Item for sale on Ebay--Aircraft carrier 16 Re Concrete Ships ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Colin Ritchie" Subject Supply vessels Heller do a 1/200th scale Smitt LLoyd Offhore supply vessel, it's a resonable kit, and looks like a early class of supply vessel, although, compared with the ones we've got in harbour to-day it's a bit old fashioned looking There are some generic PE sets in 1/192 - 1/200th scale that could be used to dress it up Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Keith Bender" Subject Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter Hi SMMLies, 327 decks, The 327's did start out with teak decks. As the years went by they all had different changes made very often as well. For example the Taney which is in Baltimore Harbor has some teak on her main deck.still to this day. Most of her decks are steel showing but there is some teak that remains. So now you must figure out which cutter and pick an exact date you want to model her in. There is a CG Cutter guru in the huge state of RI that could probably tell you all about the decks on these "White Needles of Death". He served on plenty of them in 31 years with the CG. Now to muster him front and center. OH Mighty Guru of the white boat, are you out there? Since his retirement he's been playing with his choo choo often. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Tim Stoneman Subject Re RN Cruisers Sorry, but I think bert (TaT) is slightly incorrect. The Southamptons had the earlier mark of triple 6" turrets (externally similar to the ones in the Edinburghs, Fijis and Ugandas except for a sharp angle between the turret roof and the front face instead of a slightly radiused edge, but very different inside in that the turret trunk in the later mark went one deck lower), and the last three Colony class ships did indeed omit 'X' 6" turret, but replaced it with a quadruple 2pdr pompom - the original plan HAD been to include a fifth twin 4" HA mounting but this was changed in late 1941, as a result of the need for more close-range AA. The later Minotaur (Swiftsure) class, with no hangars or catapult, DID have the fifth 4" mounting as well as more pompoms, but had to be widened to deal with the extra topweight. Tim Stoneman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Bill Michaels" Subject Re USCG Secretary class Michael, Yes, the 327s did have teak decks. BTW, the USCGC Taney is a museum ship in Baltimore's inner harbor-- you should be able to find photos of her. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Duane Fowler Subject Re WPG/AGC/WHEC-33 USCGC Duane The Secretary Class cutters were launched in 1936 and 37 with flush wooden main decks. Depending on which era you are building the ship changed considerably over time. During WWII the Duane had no less than four refits with up to three 5"/50s and three 3"/50s. If you can find the Revell Campbell or Taney kits you will see that it has rather well done wooden decks. Several good photos can be found at http//www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/WEBCUTTERS/Duane_WPG33_Photos.html I especially like the first photo with the duck on the stern. There is a link to the ship's history page too. Best regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Subject WWI Naval Losses HI Franklyn, In regards to your questions; the Cutter McCULLOUGH(of Spanish-American War fame) was rammed and sunk on 12 June 1917 by the Steamer GOVERNOR in Santa Barbara, CA. Remember the Coast Guard became part of the US Navy 6 April 1917. The cutter MOHAWK was run down and sunk on 1 October 1917 off New York city. The greatest loss of life at sea from enemy action was the sinking of the cutter TAMPA with the loss of 111 Coast Guardsmen and 4 Navy men. The german sub UB-91 was credited with the sinking with a single torpedo on 26 September 1918. As was noted in a previous post US Naval casualties were relatively light in the First World War. Merry Christmas from Rhode Island Mike Maynard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Ed" Subject Concrete Ships >> OK folks, can anyone come up with the year the first reinforced concrete boat was built, by whom, and in what country? << Okay John, I'll bite. This is from the concreteships.org website as well. "The oldest known concrete ship was a dingy built by Joseph Louis Lambot Southern France in 1848. The boat was featured in the 1855 World's Fair in France. On August 2, 1917, N.K. Fougner of Norway launched the first ocean-going concrete ship, an 84 foot long boat named Namsenfjord. With the success of the ship, several more small concrete vessels were built." I would like to order the P.E. set for the 1/350 Namsenfjord, please! Ed Wandall ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "Robert Lockie" Subject Whaleback RAF launches Hi A friend has asked me the following question about the Airfix RAF rescue launch I'm most of the way through building one and have come to the conclusion that in order to operate the 20mm Oerlikon on the rear deck you'd need to be about 7'6". To my eye the mounting looks far too tall. Have you seen anything that might suggest that this is the case? Any ideas? And Happy Christmas everyone! Robert Lockie Swindon UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From Subject Secretary class cutter To Michael Aono YES the cutter DUANE had teak decks both on the weather deck(main deck) and on the bridge wing decks. I served a 12 month tour on the "Dirty D" and spent many a day scrubbing and hosing down the wooden decks. All the 327 class ended their days with wooden decks with the exception of the cutter BIBB. In 1963 the Coast Guard removed her decks to inspect the underlying steel decking for possible corrosion and structural weakness. As it turned out the steel decking was just fine but the Service lacked the funds to restore the teak decking soooo they were painted gray. The BIBB was decommissioned in 1984 (as was the DUANE)and both sunk off Florida as a reef. I was fortunate to get a piece of the DUANE's mahogany wood rail that capped the wind screen on the bridge. It will be a base for a 327' model someday. Warm regards Mike Maynard USCG(Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Dan Owsen Subject Advice for some kits Hi, I have a few ships in the construction queue and I'm thinking about laying a keel over the holidays on one of these. But, I'm having a hard time deciding on which one to do first. I usually build planes and tanks so this will be my first foray into ships. I've done a bit of photoetch and some resin parts on my planes and armor, but I'm not sure I'm ready to do the railings on a ship yet. I'd be interested in any feedback people might have on these kits Potemkin. I was thinking about starting with this one. I have the Italian blueprints as reference. Does anyone know of any color reference on this ship? Aurora. Another candidate as a starter, but I don't have any reference on this ship. Anyone know of any, especially color reference? Konig. This is a future project for sure. I have the Tom's Model Works detail kit. I have been doing some research and found that the kit needs some work to make it into the Konig. One serious thing seems that the deck was linolium and not wood. Is there an easy way to replace the surface? Is the Gold Medal Models PE kit better and worth getting? (Seems more complete) SMS Emden. Finally acquired this one. I'll also save it for later, and get the PE kit. Cousteau's Calypso. This kit is kind of beat up and will require some restoration work, so I think I'll save it for later. Are there any detail kits available for a model of this scale (I think it's a weird one, like 1/87 or something?). Thanks! Dan Owsen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Randy Ward Subject Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter >> I am building a 1/144th scale model of a 327 ft. Secratary class Coast Guard cutter. While looking at some photos of the USCG Duane, I noticed the deck looked like it had grain line going parallel to the centerline. Does anyone know if this class of ship had teak decks?<< Michael, I checked my files, and it appears that the main deck was steel to a line right behind the turret (at the forward edge of deckhouse). The aft deck was definitely wood of some kind, as shown on two of the refit photos of the Taney (WPG-37). 'Have lots of photos of the Secreatry class boats, but precious few with deck details. Perhaps Robert Rodriguez could shed a little light, as his model of the Taney shows a different deck coloring behind the above mentioned line. BTW, I'm assembling the USCGC Bibb (WPG-31, another Secretary class) at this time, and should have a review of the Testors kit ready soon. Cap'n Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "Jim Johnson" Subject U -Boat crew http//www.hannants.co.uk/cgi-bin/search.pl?Mode=view&Database=new&R=CMKF2116 CMK, a manufacturer of aircraft accessories is making a figure set for the new Revell kit. I haven't seen it in the US yet but Hannants has it in the UK. That is the link above. HTH Jim Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From Mike Jackson Subject Re Secretary Class USCG Cutter I know for a fact the cutters Campbell and Ingham had wood decks (I stood on both). I believe Ingham is preserved at Patriot's Point in Charleston, and Taney is preserved in Baltimore. Maybe someone here on the list can check either vessel to see if they are still wood decked. V/R, Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject Re Concrete Ships According to Concrete Ships.org, the oldest known concrete ship was a dingy (not a ship as far as I am concerned) built by J.L. Lambot in 1848. The same website notes numerous small vessels built during the period 1910-1917 including the Norweigian "Namensenfjord". As best as I can tell, the first real ocean-going ship would have been the SS Faith, launched March, 1918. The author of the website, Robert Bender, notes the oldest concrete vessel still afloat is the "Violette" currently used as a clubhouse on the Medway. For those of you interested in concrete ships, this is the place to go. Bender has a history of the individual ships of WWI and WWII plus others. I have only one experience with concrete hulls myself - but I have stopped waking up screaming - so it's beginning to fade. Pirie Sublett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From "David N. Lombard" Subject Re Item for sale on Ebay--Aircraft carrier From "Rod Dauteuil" >> For those of you who model larger scales, here's a nice model for you on Ebay. It is in 1/12 scale (1 foot = 12 inches). << Well, 1/1, but anyway. FYI, It's ex HMS VENGEANCE >> Here's the link http//cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2449695840#ebayphotohosting << Read the description -- it's a hoot. Especially the, um, economics of the offer -- I wonder if the seller has any bridges... "There are three kinds of lies lies, damn lies, and statistics." Attributed to Benjamin Disraeli by Mark Twain. http//www.bartleby.com/66/99/16799.html http//www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm David N. Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA N 33 deg, 48', W 118 deg, 5' ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From "Doug Wilde" Subject Re Concrete Ships John, In Charles Desmond's book "Wooden Ship-Building" are photographs 149 and 150. The caption on Fig 149 is "Faith, the First Concrete-Build Ocean Steamer, Starting Off From San Francisco for Seattle, Tacoma and Vancouver." The caption on Fig 150 is "Faith, 5,000-Ton Concrete Vessel, Launched 1918 From the San Francisco Shipbuilding Company's Yard at Redwood City, Cal." This is a great little book, a reprint of the original 1919 book published by Rudder Publ. Co. and put out by Vestal Press. Bursting with many photograph and drawings of all aspects of ship construction. Much on the wooden freighters built in WWI. Ferrocement boats fell out of favor for two reasons 1) Too many bad boats built. It takes a skilled plasterer to generate a fine shape. Also you can be at the mercy of the local concrete contractor. If they deliver junk you have a nice big above ground swimming pool. 2) The rise of epoxy construction and the excellent PR work of The Gougeon Brothers. You still use wood, and therefore have a much better chance of building a fair boat. Doug Wilde ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume