Subject: SMML VOL 2401 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:16:30 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re SMML VOL 2400 2 Re tidal wave cruiser 3 Re tidal wave cruiser 4 Re Torpedo tubes length 5 Re GLORIOUS' aircraft 6 Re Glorious's aircraft 7 US "S" Class Sub References 8 Re Tidal Wave Cruiser 9 Re tidal wave cruiser (USS Memphis) 10 Revell 1/72 Type VIIc 11 PT Boat colors 12 Re tidal wave cruiser 13 Re 1/32 and 1/35 scale Type VII c U-boats ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re SMML VOL 2400 Wow! Volume 2400- 200 dozen volumes! Thanks to all that contribute, and to Lorna & Shane for the wonderful hosting of this list. Best wishes to all for a great 2004. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Douglas Simpkin Subject Re tidal wave cruiser John Fox wanted to know about USS Memphis. Here's some poop. http//www.delmars.com/family/mosier3.htm records "The Memphis sank in a typhoon off Santo Domingo in July 1916 with 100 lives lost." http//www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/us_cruisers.htm records that USS Tennesee (ACR 10) was Renamed Memphis on 25th May 1916. Wrecked by a huge Tsunami on 29th August 1916. There are photos of the class at http//www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/tennessee_class_cruisers.htm#USS%20Tennessee In "U.S. Armored Cruisers A Design and Operational History" by Ivan Musicant (1985) there's a photo of Memphis on the rocks. I didn't see any plans for ACR 10 Tennessee/Memphis at Taubman's, so can't help you there. Happy new year, all, Doug ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject Re tidal wave cruiser Yes, it was the USS Memphis (formerly the USS Tennessee ACR-10) destroyed by a tsunami at Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, August 29, 1916. A good refence for this is Ivan Musicant's U.S. Armored Cruisers A Design and Operational History. Annpolis, Maryland Naval Institute Press, 1985. There is an excellent reference to modeling in the Ships in Scale, September/October 2000 issue of the Pennsylvania class armored cruiser which was a close match for the Tennessee Class. Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Erwin Van Deynze Subject Re Torpedo tubes length SMML wrote >> I'd like to make it as a static with open torpedo hadges. Can anyone tell me or send me a picture on which you can see how deep the torpedo is in the hadge? I have a lot of documentation, but cannot find this in my books. I need to know this, so I know how to make my torpedoes. << Hi Johnny! I measured it on a couple of drawings I have in Robert Stern's book 'Type VII U-boats'. They have no scale, but the torpedo measures 35mm and the tubes 39mm in one drawing. Knowing that the G7's are 7m long (hence the 7 in the designation) makes the tubes about 7,6m long. Now knowing the economics of labour (don't do anything more than you really have to) I guess the loaders put the torps only far enough in the tubes so that they could safely close the hatch. This give about 30 to 50 cm behind the forward hatch (not the doors! hatch should be right behind the doors). In 72nd this is about 5mm HTH Wienne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Tim Stoneman Subject Re GLORIOUS' aircraft To pick up on some points from the responses so far The photos in Friedman's book are probably miscaptioned - they appear to represent the disembarkation of 46 Squadron to Skaanland on 26 May - note the aircraft ranged aft ready to launch in two of the pictures, and the Hurricane just airborne in one with a Swordfish navigational guide ready to follow. The fighters would not have been lined up aft if others were about to recover - standard practice prewar and in the early part of the war was to strike each aircraft below to a hangar before the next one recovered - Fleet Air Arm deck crews could do this pretty rapidly! 'a tan, brown, and green splinter camo pattern' would be unusual for RAF aircraft - in 1940 RAF monoplane fighters normally wore two-coloured uppersurfaces (Dark Green and Dark Earth), with curved demarcation between the two colours, not a Luftwaffe-style splinter pattern. There is some evidence that 46 Squadron aircraft may have been repainted with Sky Grey undersurfaces extending part-way up the fuselage sides. According to various websites and other references, such as http//www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/gladiator_glorious.htm, only ten Hurricanes (L1793, L1804, L1805, L1806, L1815, L1853, L1961, L1980, P2632, P2633) survived to make it back to the carrier (three on 7 June and the remaining seven on 8 June - although some sources say there were only seven in total). Ten Gladiators also landed on board GLORIOUS on 10 June. One Walrus brought Sqn Ldr Cross (CO 46 Sqn) out to GLORIOUS on 7 June to discuss the recovery of his squadron and then departed; another (or possibly the same one) brought Gp Capt Moore (Commander of the (RAF) Air Component) out to GLORIOUS after the Hurricanes had landed, and then went on to ARK ROYAL All the fighters would probably have had their wing undersurfaces painted black (port wing) and white (starboard wing) as decreed by the Air Ministry for recognition purposes. Tim Stoneman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "John Ratzenberger" Subject Re Glorious's aircraft John I can only speak to (what I think I know about) Gladiators. -- 263 Sqdn Gladiators would have been in the RAF 4-color scheme called Shadow Compensating. Dark Green / Dark Earth upper surface of top wing, tailplane, and upper part of fuselage about half-way down. Light Green /Light Earth on upper surface of lower wing, fin/rudder and on bottom half of fuselage. The undersurface would have been half-black(port) and half-white. Sqdn codes would be in Medium Sea Grey. Roundels would be type B (red-blue) and only on upper wing & fuselage -- but some may have had type-A on fuselage. Some a/c may have had Sky undersides and Medium Grey ILO Dark Earth. Some may have had aluminum fuselage underneath & wings in black/white -- 802 Sqdn had only 6 aboard at the time of the loss. They would have been finished in the FAA variant of the RAF 4-color scheme for the Gladiator -- Extra Dark Sea Grey / Dark Slate Grey on upper surfaces of top wing, fuselage, and tailplane; Dark Sea Grey / Light Slate Grey on upper surface of lower wing. Undersurface of both wings, the tailplane, the fin/rudder & fuselage half-way up would be Sky Grey. Codes & serials would have been black (or maybe red). I believe all roundels would have been type A (equi-red-white-blue) in all six positions. Camo schemes, esp roundel color/size were changing rapidly & as you said, photos are rare or in many cases lost in combat ... Hope this helps. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From William Weckel Subject US "S" Class Sub References I am planning on building a 1/72 scale "S" class boat based on the Combat Models vac-u-form kit this spring and was hoping that one of you could recommend the best reference materials from a modeler's perspective. I am especially interested in anything with good drawings of a number of the different boats and at different times during their service. From what I've gathered so far, they boats varied greatly in their external appearance over the course of their service. Additionally, does anyone know what shade of light grey was used on the pre-war boats? TIA, Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From MrkLeonard@aol.com Subject Re Tidal Wave Cruiser The cruiser involved was indeed the USS Memphis, formerly the USS Tennessee. On August 29, 1916, while under the command of Captain Edward L. Beach (the father of the famous naval officer and historian), the Memphis was anchored in Santo Domingo harbor. Under orders from Admiral Charles F. Pond, she had only two of her sixteen boilers lit off in order to save coal. A series of tidal waves washed the Memphis to within a few feet of the shore before she could raise enough steam to get clear. The Memphis was a total loss with 43 dead and 200 injured. Even though he had protested the order limiting him to two active boilers, Captain Beach was held responsible for failing to keep sufficient steam up. His prior spotless record and his actions during the shipwreck limited his punishment to a written reprimand and loss of five spaces on the seniority list. Some years later, his seniority was re-instated. The Memphis, when launched as Tennessee, was one of 4 ships of the Washington class. I don't know of any models of this class. Any help? Mark Leonard Santa Rosa, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Richard Van Damme" Subject Re tidal wave cruiser (USS Memphis) It was indeed the USS Memphis CA-10 (ex-Tennessee). On May 25, 1916 her name was changed from Tennessee to Memphis to free up Tennessee for a new BB. (Bad luck to change a ships name.) On Aug 29, 1916 while at anchor in Santo Domingo harbor she was driven ashore by a tidal wave, later declared a total wreck. 40 men died or were missing. Capt Edward Beach's career was ruined. (Father of Ed. Beach of WWII fame and the author.) Do not know of any models of the ACR's. I have the plans for the Memphis and have been wanting to scratch build her for the past 15 years. Rich ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From William Weckel Subject Revell 1/72 Type VIIc In case anyone missed this - www.hyperscale.com had a review posted last week of a nice looking aftermarket decal set for the new U-boat. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Steve Singlar Subject PT Boat colors I am building a PT Boat for my mother's cousin, a WWII PT Boater. I bought the Revell PT 109, easy and inexpensive. The plastic is a shinny forrest green. I painted the water line and lower hull flat black. I was going to use olive drag on the upper hull and deck. But the color does not look right. Any suggestions? I would prefer to use a spray paint. Thanks and Happy New Year to all. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From Daniel Kurtz Subject Re tidal wave cruiser >> Some years ago I read a book about a US Navy armored cruiser that was hit by a tidal wave in, I believe, the Dominican Republic around the turn of the century (last one). I'm not sure, but I think it was the USS Memphis. Does anybody know the name of this ship and if there is a kit available? << USS Memphis CA-10 (ex-USS Tennessee). Destroyed by tidal swell at Santo Domingo in 1916. Excellent book called, I think, "The Wreck of The Memphis", written in early 70s by the son of the captain (Beach). Kits No idea, but I doubt it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Re 1/32 and 1/35 scale Type VII c U-boats I can agree with going for the Accurate Miniature's 1/35 scale Type VIIc U-boat to save the cost of trying to go with the more expensive 1/32 scale kits at almost ten times the cost. And as far as what Johnny Geldhof had to say for those who are interested in conning-towers in 1/35, the ones at the Modelmanufactur site at http//www.modellmanufaktur.com/ will be more than pleased with what they see, as will those who choose the Accurate Miniature's version of the same thing. If one decides to give a crew for any of these above mentioned models they can go through the above mentioned website for a fairly complete listing of 1/35 scale figures. But at between 10 to 15 Euros per figure, one could easily spend as much for the crew as one would for the conning-tower kit by itself. And if I know the people at Czechmaster as they have in the past, they will come up with a solution to this problem also. I can only expect them to also come up with resin replacement conning-towers for the Revell kit. Also, the Kora company has a very interesting 1/72 scale line of German and Japanese manned torpedoes. I still scratch my head at how much we have to choose from as far as modeling subjects are concerned with, and its related cost to our pocketbooks. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume