Subject: SMML VOL 2402 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 02:02:51 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Help please - just where were they 2 Re Torpedo tubes length 3 Re US "S" class subs 4 Re SMML VOL 2400 5 Re tidal wave cruiser (USS Memphis) 6 Re tidal wave cruiser ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1 Small Warship Special Interest Group -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 January Internet Modeler 2 ships for sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Maurice O'Brien" Subject Help please - just where were they Leaving aside for the moment the small matter of what really happened at the battle of Koh Chang. Can anyone tell me, preferable by reference to photographs of the actual ships rather than to drawings or models, the placement of the secondary and tertiary armament of the Thai coastal defence ships RTNS Dhonburi and Sri Ayuthia. Were the 3'' guns on the forecastle deck abreast the forward superstructure, or one deck higher. Were the light AA all placed atop the aft superstructure and, although usually referenced as 20mm calibre, would they not have been the Japanese 25mm singles. The information I have so far is conflicting and indecisive and any bit of decisive clarity would be most welcome. Maurice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Darren Scannell Subject Re Torpedo tubes length >> I measured it on a couple of drawings I have in Robert Stern's book 'Type VII U-boats'. They have no scale, but the torpedo measures 35mm and the tubes 39mm in one drawing. Knowing that the G7's are 7m long (hence the 7 in the designation) makes the tubes about 7,6m long. Now knowing the economics of labour (don't do anything more than you really have to) I guess the loaders put the torps only far enough in the tubes so that they could safely close the hatch. This give about 30 to 50 cm behind the forward hatch (not the doors! hatch should be right behind the doors). In 72nd this is about 5mm << OK, this one's from the way out in space catagory! First off, I don't know very much about WWII U-Boats, so don't laugh at my reference source! The cartoon movie 'finding Nemo', has an old WWII U-boat at the bottom of the see. The fishy's get trapped on the torpedo tube with a torpedo. The artists have shown the torpedo being held in the tube by a little latch that the front of the torpedo bumps against when pushed into the tube all the way, about a foot or so from the hatch. Is this accurate, or artistic license? (The reason I thought this may be sort of close to accurate is that I can imagine the crew wouldn't want the torpedo sliding towards the hatch and detonating in the tube during maneuvers) So much for credibility! Darren ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re US "S" class subs Hi Bill, Let me first recommend an excellent website for S-boats http//thesaltysailor.com/s-boats/s_history.htm This site contains drawings, photos and history of most of the S-boats. Another excellent source of information is Norman Friedman's "US Submarines through 1945", published by Naval Institute Press. This is the first of a two part book that contains outstanding line drawings by Jim Christley. There were 51 S-Boats built between 1918 and 1924. Four distinct versions of the S-Boat were designed. Group 1 boats were built by Bethlehem Steel at Quincy and San Francisco. Group 2 boats, a Navy design, were built at Portsmouth Navy Yard and Bridgeport Connecticut. Group 3 and 4 boats were also built at Quincy Massachusetts by Bethlehem Steel, however the Group 4 boats were built to a larger and improved Lake design. The boats were modified greatly during service, so you will need to choose a time and specific boat for your project. Please keep us updated on your efforts! Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Subject Re SMML VOL 2400 I agree w/ Tom. Many thanks to Lorna & Shane for hosting SMML. Best wishes to all for a happy & prosperous new year. Bill Bryant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "William H. Shuey" Subject Re tidal wave cruiser (USS Memphis) >> It was indeed the USS Memphis CA-10 (ex-Tennessee). On May 25, 1916 her name was changed from Tennessee to Memphis to free up Tennessee for a new BB. (Bad luck to change a ships name.) On Aug 29, 1916 while at anchor in Santo Domingo harbor she was driven ashore by a tidal wave, later declared a total wreck. 40 men died or were missing. Capt Edward Beach's career was ruined. (Father of Ed. Beach of WWII fame and the author.) << In reference to the re-naming comment There were two classes of U.S. Armored Cruisers that were originally named after States and were re-named after cities in those States, the Pennsylvania Class and the Tennessee Class. There might be something to the bad luck idea, as one ran aground and one was lost to enemy action in W.W.I. Pennsylvania, launched 22 Aug., 1903; renamed Pittsburgh West Virginia, 18 Apr., 1903; renamed Huntingdon California, 28 Apr., 1904; renamed San Diego, sunk by Mine 19 July, 1918 Colorado, 25 Apr., 1903; renamed Pueblo Maryland, 12 Sept., 1903; renamed Frederick South Dakota, 21 July, 1904; renamed Huron Tennessee, 3 Dec., 1904; renamed Memphis, wrecked by tidal wave Santo Domingo Washington, 18 Mar., 1905; renamed Seattle North Carolina. 6 Oct., 1906; renamed Charlotte Montana, 15 Dec., 1906; renamed Missoula These are sometimes referred to as "The Big Ten" armored cruisers. They were effectively rendered obsolete by the Battle Cruise developments and when the U.S. Navy ruled that henceforth only Battleships would carry state names, they were all re-named, beginning in 1912, to release State names for new dreadnought battleship construction. Ref U.S. Cruisers, Friedman Bill Shuey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Randy Ward Subject Re tidal wave cruiser >> In "U.S. Armored Cruisers A Design and Operational History" by Ivan Musicant (1985) there's a photo of Memphis on the rocks. << I don't know if this is the same photo, but I have a .jpg of two ships online, one on the rocks and one offshore a few hundred feet. The offshore one carries "311" on her bow. Both vessels are four-stackers, WWI vintage. 'Don't know if the photo is copyrighted, but if someone wants to see it, let me know. Cap'n Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From brownatfareham@surefish.co.uk Subject Small Warship Special Interest Group The website of this group has moved to a new address - www.smallwarshipgroup.org.uk and now includes the latest issue of our e-magazine Escort on the site. The site has only just been loaded, so if you find any problems with it, do let me know. Regards Les Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Bob Pearson" Subject January Internet Modeler Hi All, The January Internet Modeler is now online and naval topics this time around include - Scratchbuilt 1/192 HMS Campanula by David Dinan - Revell 1/240 Ward w/GMM PE by Richard Eaton - review of the Revell-Germany 1/72 U-boat by George Peat - S&S RN WWII Colour chips set 3 In addition we have moved to a new server and now have all of our issues online from the first one in September 1998 to the present. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http//www.internetmodeler.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Jesse Sublett Subject ships for sale Some of these have been posted on the 1250 Board already. Minimum order is $10. postage is $5 for first item, $1 thereafter. Scroll down for 1600 THoroughbred ACW kits. Likely, I'll be selling more in the next week or 2. Please reply to my email off-list, as I don't check this board very often. Thanks, happy new year, NEW ITEMS Clydeside GRAF SPEE – assembled, painted gray -- $10 Clydeside HMS EXETER kit -$15 Comet Authenticast NACHI JAP HEAVY CRUISER 1936-41 $12 Unknown manufacturer US DESTROYER $3 (Wiking?) Grifo N-43 [cool Italian kit] Alberto Guissano 1940 $12 Grifo N46 BARTOLOMEO COLLEONI 1940 $12 Tremo HMS RODNEY/NELSON BB $10 [poor cond.­nice paperweight] Tremo TRIBAL CLASS DD $18 THOROUGHBRED MODELS 1600 KITS • TS60 US ARMED FERRY $9.50 • TS21 US ELLET RAM $9.50 • TS42 USS INDIANOLA $10.25 • TS08 USS SASSACUS $12.50 • TS67 CSS MAURY GUNBOATS $6.25 • TS65 USS BENTON $12.50 TS68 USS TIMBERCLAD $12.25 11250/11200 items from previous list still available SUPERIORS -- $10 apiece. All are kits except for Nassau, which is assembled & painted. Some are new castings from the most recent upgrades by ALNAVCO; some are older ones. If you want to know which is which, just ask, but the prices are, I believe, fair. MORE ships to be added soon. B102 LION CB $10 A201 ALASKA CB A107 MONTANA BB B903 KING GEORGE V BB G901 NASSAU BB (another) PAINTED J106 NAGATO B923 TIGER CB J102 IJN ISE BB 1944 F105 GASCOGNE -- $5 [inquire about condition if interested] FLEETLINE LIST [11200 metal kits --some assembled & painted, some not] F509 USS CANONICUS Class 1865 (MONITOR, SINGLE TURRRET) PAINTED $7 F501 USS MONITOR KIT $3 F516 CSS LOUISIANA KIT $3 F514 CSS FREDERICKSBURG KIT $3 MISC MODEL MANUFACTURERS -- metal Unknown USS PASSAIC (monitor) PAINTED $2 STAR USS OZARK PAINTED $7 [nice] Berger TEMES/ BODROG (Austrian monitor) $12 Berger USS TECUMSEH $11 SX23 DANIEL [Austria-Hungary river tug 1898] PAINTED $7 FH85A VOSPER VT2 UK HOVERCRAFT [kit, 2 per bag] $4 OCEANIC ABDIEL 1970 MINELAYER [BRITISH ] KIT $3 STAR CSS Floating Battery 1861 [painted] $3 STAR CANONICUS class monitor PAINTED $7 Comet/Authenticast armor Comet/Authenticast 5055 Japanese tankette $10 Comet/Authenticast 5156 US Priest tank $15 JESSE SUBLETT check out new home page www.overbooked.org/Sublett.html http//www.overbooked.org/jesse_sublett/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume