Subject: SMML VOL 2417 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:32:24 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re WW 1 German ship designation 2 Re All I want 3 Re sailors on models 4 Boats 5 Re WW 1 German ship designation 6 Re All I want.... 7 Re Trumpter Nimitz? 8 Re All I want 9 Re WW 1 German ship designation 10 HMAS Sydney/HSK Kormoran 11 WW 1 German ship designation 12 WW 1 German ship designation 13 Displaying Models 14 Re German Ship Designation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject Re WW 1 German ship designation Seiner Majestäts Schiff = His Majesty's Ship like HMS. This designation also is used in the Austrian imperial navy's ships. Ulrich H. Rudofsky Delmar, NY, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re All I want I believe Brooks has nailed exactly the problem that ship modelers face. Unfortunately, market size is always a consideration when comtemplating the investment of large sums into creating a styrene injection mold. In fact, I am sometimes amazed at what the Japanese manufacturers have accomplished in producing a wide variety of injection molded ship kits. Cars and airplanes dominate polystyrene model manufacturing; it's a fact of life. I am enormously encouraged, however by the smaller resin manufacturers. The detail and quality of their offerings would be impossible to match in polystyrene. Ship modelers are fortunate that so many finer resin companies have stepped in to provide a broad range of fine kits or detail parts for existing polystyrene models. I model submarines, and without Yankee Modelworks (BWN), Tom's Modelwork's, J&D Products, Seawolf/Torpedo and others, it would be a pretty bleak world, as I don't have the time to carve hulls out of wood. Yes, resin kits are more expensive, but as in most cases, you get what you pay for. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From SantMin@aol.com Subject Re sailors on models I almost always build my models waterline in a sea setting, I just think they look much more natural that way, and I always include a crew. On the few models I have built on pedistals I always include at least one human figure standing somewhere. It gives the viewer's eye/mind a sense of scale Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From sohardave2@aol.com Subject Boats Greetings I am David G. Sasher Sr and I am looking for information on an Army FS 88 vessel. My Uncle Stanley H. Sasher served on this vessel back in 1943, 44. In remembrance to him I would like to build a Radio Control model of his vessel. Smooth Sailing, Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Roland Mar Subject Re WW 1 German ship designation >> I just read an article about the WW 1 German navy, and it suffixed the names of the battleships with the letters S. M. S., such as S. M. S. Hindenburg, etc. Please, SMML, what do the letters signify? << To Franklyn I believe that SMS means "Seine Majesstat's Schiffe" [spelling may be off on the middle word, 'tis early and pre-coffee] or His Majesty's Ship; as in it belonged to the Kaiser. Hope this helps. Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From SteveWiper@aol.com Subject Re All I want.... Brooks, You nailed that one right on. As someone who would love to move from the resin, into the plastic injection market, but cannot because of the massive capital required, I agree with everything you said. That is why I am now designing kits for Trumpeter Models of China. I know what the market wants and that is what I am designing for them. They seem to be one of very few willing and able to take that chance. It is really cool. Most of us will start to get some of the more wanted subjects very soon, as I have finished two designs and am working on the third and acquiring info for the next three. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From SteveWiper@aol.com Subject Re Trumpter Nimitz? >> Any word out there yet as to when we can expect this 1/350 scale beasty to be on the market?? As an old Nimitz hand I am really looking forward to it.. << Latest information from Trumpeter's importer says that the kits will be released by August, in China. They had some problems with the shape of the bow, so those are being worked out now. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Subject Re All I want I agree with Brooks Rowlett on this one. I think he understood both the economic and marketing realities of the situation. The plastic 1/700 waterline ship series was first developed and produced in Japan. I think it is the result of rather astute marketing. This series was developed for Japanese ship modeling public; both serious and "sport" modelers, would respond to a marketing survey that they would prefer Japanese WWII subjects. The same marketing gurus would also recognize that the US is richest market in the world. Hence IJN and USN ships. The Japanese modeling consortium did rather well with non-Japanese subjects. The newer US and British battleships, the most famous of the aircraft carriers of those two nations and the German battleships are all represented. In this group, are argueably the most famous and most recognized ships in the world Bismarck, Hood, Missouri, Enterprise and KGV. Indeed, were it not for the success of the waterline series, we would not be enjoying the golden age of ship modeling we presently enjoy. John Collins Franklin, TN USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From Sab1156@aol.com Subject Re WW 1 German ship designation Dear Franklyn, The Letters S.M.S. mean "Seiner Majestaet Schiff",which is the same like the british HMS (His Majesty Ship). Best Regards Detlef ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Rob and Rose Brown Subject HMAS Sydney/HSK Kormoran Hi Brett Read with interest your post on HMAS Sydney. Her puzzling loss has long fascinated me and I've accumulated many source materials and books over the years trying to figure it all out. The single best source I've found is 'HMAS Sydney Loss and Controversy' by Tom Frame, a well researched and well written book. There are lots and lots of theories and books, including conspiracies involving the highest levels of government. Not being a 'grassy knoll' type myself, I favour those explanations which are straightforward. This account is mostly from Frame's book Sydney was not dispatched to search for Kormoran, she was in fact homeward bound to Fremantle from the Sunda Strait where she had escorted the Singapore bound troopship Zealandia. The subsequent sighting of Kormoran was totally by chance. Kormoran had not sunk any victims since September, so there would have been no particular reason to suspect a raider in the vicinity. When the initial sighting was made, Sydney was to the northeast of Kormoran. Kormoran immediately altered course to west, directly into the setting sun. For the rest of the closing phase, Sydney's bridge crew would have had a poor view of the raider. At some point early on, Sydney most likely ordered the raider to stop, which Kormoran complied with. She would still have been able to keep way on, around 2-3 knots, remembering that Sydney couldn't make out what exactly was going on due to the sun. With the raider apparently stopped, Capt Burnett then closed the range to visual flag distance and hoisted various signals trying to further identify the raider. This was his only mistake, to come in close enough for flags to be read. In Burnett's defence, he had no idea that this wasn't one of many merchant ships that often didn't comply with signalled directions. He may have also thought he was dealing with a raider supply ship, in which case his overriding concern would be to prevent it from scuttling and to prevent any loss of life amongst captured Allied crews. And in any case, he had a highly trained and battle ready crew, able to deal with any circumstance. Why would any of the bridge crew protest at all? It was getting late in the day, the suspicious ship had complied with the order to stop, and further identification was desired before nightfall. The pending return to Fremantle may have also caused some distraction. Unlike the captains of Devonshire vs. Atlantis or Cornwall vs. Pinquin who knew they were dealing with raiders, Burnett had no such pre-conceptions, he had to figure it out for himself. Sydney was kept on Kormoran's starboard quarter throughout the lengthy identification process, a position that offered the most safety as only guns mounted on the stern of the raider would have been able to bear, and Sydney offered the smallest target aspect. At some point, Burnett made prepartions to lower a boat and board Kormoran for further inspection. In order to make this easier on the boat's crew, he closed to within 1,500 yards. Standard procedure would have been to lower the boat at 14,000 yards and order the raider to close the boat, but due to the late hour of the day and the lowering visibility, this was not done. At this point, Kormoran unmasked her guns on the starboard side, unseen by Sydney due to the sun and a slight alteration of heading to port. A torpedo was fired, the Kormoran altered to starboard, and the fight was on. Sydney's lack of a quick response was most likely due to the subsequent torpedo hit under the forward turrets, the failure of hydraulic systems for those turrets and the main rangefinder, and the raking of the bridge by the 37mm AA guns. Her after turrets did make short work of Kormoran once they found the range. At no time did Sydney fire a full 6 inch salvo from all 8 guns. Kormoran's main guns may have needed ranging shots to find the range, but her other armament did not. It may not be generally known, but all British cruisers from the Amphion class (of which Sydney was one) onwards had a serious design flaw (Nelson to Vanguard by DK Brown, p. 73). Wing spaces outboard of the after boiler rooms carried the outboard propellor shafts from the forward engine room. A torpedo hit in this area would not only flood the machinery spaces, but with the corresponding wing space on the other side being dry, a large heel would develop quite quickly, causing loss of stability and most likely a very quick capsize, as did happen with several of the Dido class. This was most likely Sydney's fate as there are indications that other torpedoes were fired and did hit. With a crew mostly belowdecks fighting battle damage and with most flotation gear damaged, a quick capsize at some point in the night would have left few survivors. Add 6 days before any search was mounted, and it becomes regrettably easy to see why no survivors were found. There are many problems, conflicts, and timing issues with the German testimony, which is most likely why Detmers remained 'tight-lipped' about what really happened. There are also other scenarios and theories. I like this version because it is logical and fits with most of the German testimony. It is very easy to accept the German description of events, but without a corresponding response from the Australian side, all such testimony must be treated as suspect and potentially somewhat self-serving. In short, I think Capt. Burnett has received a lot of the blame over what happened, but it is difficult to see what else he should have done, given the circumstances of the meeting. The key point is the early torpedo hit and the loss of command and control on the bridge, events which occured before any main gun opened fire, most likely within a minute of Kormoran's opening fire. As with General Custer at Little Big Horn, Burnett and his crew's reputations have been much maligned without the benefit of any personal rebuttal. Thanks for your indulgence Shane for the rather long post. Would be happy to continue discussions off-line, r2brown 'at' canada.com. Ref HMAS Sydney Loss and Controversy by Tom Frame Nelson to Vanguard by DK Brown Kormoran vs Sydney - Warship 1992 by Kim Kirsner (and a host of other books and articles) Cheers Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From "Anubis" Subject WW 1 German ship designation S.M.S means "Seiner Majestaet Schiff" which is simlilar to the HMS "His/her Majestys ship" Regards Udo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "Phil REDMAN" Subject WW 1 German ship designation SMS = sein Majestaets Schiff = His Majesty's Ship. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "William B Luther" Subject Displaying Models I personally like full hulls, but I suppose that because I design boats and ships for a living and to me, a ship without a hull is like an airplane without wings. Seriously, I believe the decision should be based on what the modeler is trying to convey. If it is the beauty of a ship at sea, then of course, waterline it, and put it on a realistic seascape. If it is the drama of action or a difficult evolution at sea, then add shell splashes and/or little sailors. To present the technical design of the ship, the classic presentation on brass pedestals with perfect paint and decks is good. My favorite presentation is someplace in between. A nice polished wood base, brass pedestals, and name plates, but I present the model as if it is floating in invisible water. For instance, I built a model of a flagship at anchor. The anchor was "set" into the wood base, with epoxy "mud" built up around the flukes and the chain led up to the chain pipe. The Admirals barge is at the ships ladder, "floating" next to the landing. The boat boom is swung out and the duty u-boat is waiting for the next run to the beach, supported by a small brass rod. Flags are "flapping" overhead, and the little sailors do not look out of place, as the side boys await the admiral. Another variation I like, is to present the model in your favorite way and scale, then on the same base but separated in some way, include another model of something associated with the ship in a larger scale. Examples The USS Enterprise, CV-6 w/a SBD Dauntless dive bomber, an attack transport w/a LCVP or the USS Ward with a IJN midget submarine. The most important thing is to have fun, after all, it is YOUR, hobby, do what you like. Bill Luther ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From Subject Re German Ship Designation SMS stands for the German equivalent of His Majesty's Ship (Sein Majestat Schiff - and I hope I got the spelling correct). A more complex prefix applied to Austro-Hungarian warships, with the Austrian Emperor being also King of Hungary they used KuK (Kaiserliche und Koningliche =Imperial and Royal). Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume