Subject: SMML VOL 2436 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:35:03 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 S. S. Patrick Henry the first Liberty Ship 2 Re All I Want & Displaying Models 3 Re DLG-1 Norfolk Kit? 4 Re Pearl Harbor salvage book 5 Re Bomb colors 6 Re Pearl Harbor Salvage 7 DLG 1 Norfolk 8 1/600 Scale Walrus 9 Re figurines L'arsenal 10 Steve McLaughlin - Russian Battleships 11 Re Pearl Harbour Salvage & reconstruction -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Re Castle on the River Hunt? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "David L. Fisher" Subject S. S. Patrick Henry the first Liberty Ship I am attempting to gatner information about this vessel at the time of her trials in December 1941. For example what flag or pennant was flying from her aft cargo mast? What markings, if any were on her funnel? Where were awnings erected, etc. In addition photos of her deck arrangements (only during her trials) would prove very valuable. I do have an outboard profile photo of her during trials (though not too many details are visible) as well as her launch and at the fitting-out pier. Of course I will cover any expenses for the materials. Dave Fisher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Leslie D. Foran" Subject Re All I Want & Displaying Models Hello again, I would like to comment on the above subjects. I prefer injection-molded plastic kits to resin kits for the simple reason that the resin kits do not present much of a construction challenge, the challenge being in painting and detailing. Building the ship up piece by piece and seeing it take form on the bench is very satisfying to me, and a major part of the hobby's appeal to me. I also do not build water-line models, as I feel the underwater portion of the hull, props, and rudders are an important part of any ship model. That said, I would also like to add that I appreciate seeing completed resin and waterline models in dioramas, just would rather not build them. Perhaps the solution to the problem of availability of ships would lie in the use of common components to model various ships of the same class, as in the Revell aircraft carrier kits of the Yorktown and Forrestal classes with common hulls and different detail parts to represent individual ships (ie Yorktown/Hornet and Forrestal/Saratoga). An Enterprise kit could be added to the Yorktown class offerings, and a kit with common components could cover the original Lexington/Saratoga carriers. Revell's Essex-class Lexington of a few year's back could be the basis for any Essex-class carrier with the addition of an axial flight deck option. In the same way, the Nimitz class carriers could be based on the same major components. I liked Bill Luther's idea of using two models in different scales to complement each other, and the use of a scale figure on a pedestal model to convey a sense of scale. His idea of a pedestal model "at anchor" is a great one. I used this idea a few year's ago in building a model of the USS Arizona monument. The Arizona is modelled in her present state, set on a base of concrete patch "sea bottom". Slack anchor chains lead to anchors in the "mud". The memorial building was scratchbuilt of clear acrylic, with a "floating" dock and tour boats suspended by a hidden support at "water level". The water itself is not represented. Les Foran Landlocked in Nebraska ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From David Wells Subject Re DLG-1 Norfolk Kit? "Katz, Gene S" wrote >> Any kits made by anybody (other than scratchbuilt) of the DLG-1 Norfolk (one of class) or the follow-on DLG-2 and 3 (another class)? They seem to have fallen through the cracks... << As far as I know, there's no Norfolk kit out there. If you're willing to tolerate an old kit, it would be quite feasible to convert a Renwal King/Farragut/Dewey kit into a Mitscher (DL-2) class destroyer with relatively little work. Just replace the aft Terrier launcher with a 5"/L54 Mk 42 gun mount, and you're about 95% of the way there. The kit is actually closer to a Mitscher than it is to the later class of DLG. Then make sure you send the spare Terrier launcher to me....... ;-) David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http//home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject Re Pearl Harbor salvage book Don't forget to ask your local librarian to request a copy of the recommended book from the local Interlibrary Loan system. It works great if all you want is to read the book and/or perhaps make a few specific Xeroxes. They regularly find books from the WW 1 era for me. I am not a book collector, but I do accumulate specific information contained on a few pages. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "TIMOTHY BROOKS" Subject Re Bomb colors >> I may have missed a previous thread on ordinance colors. The planes on my WW II USN carriers will have exposed bombs (On SBDs) and torpedoes (On TBDs). What colors were they supposed to be painted? We're talking 1941 to 1945 time period. Squadron Signal's publications show some bombs to be a dark shade of green; perhaps olive drab? Also, I once saw a rendition of a Mark 13 torp with a red warhead and silver body. Really? I would appreciate any info on these items as I don't think they were all black. << Hi Bert, et al. At last, some useful(?) knowledge from my childhood that I can display!!!!! The torpedo's of the Mk13 (air/PT boats); Mk14 (submarine) and Mk15 (destroyers/escorts) family were all the same weapon, using the same afterbody (motor), depth control and warhead sections, with different length fuel tanks (midbodys) for their respective roles, with the 13 the shortest, the 14 the longest and the 15 in between. The weapons were made of steel, so the correct color is...steel. That would be a silver/grey, not shiny silver. Testors used to make it, and probably still does. For the 14 and 15, these weapons in service were liberally coated with ordnance grease, a grey/green slime. Depending on the zeal with which applied, the silver could turn greenish. The warheads were not supposed to be greased, so they should have been more silver than the body color. They were, in fact, waxed, as was the entire Mk13 for air use, since it didn't need to be preserved nor lubed to slide in the tube. Note the "supposed" to regarding greasing warheads. When they came back from the boats, they were invariably covered with sticky, hardened congealed grease. The warhead had a bronze or steel nose cap with integral lifting ring, and the props were bronze as well. The greasing/waxing of the units was done with particular attention to the bolts/screws attaching the various sections and access plates together, as well as the section seams, so a light grey/yellow wash over a steel color would be about right for a Mk13, darker grey/green for a 14 or 15. Regarding the "red" warheads...well, yeah, on exercise torpedos the warhead was actually an exercise head, and was usually painted red or an red-orange color to assist in finding the thing to recover it (floats nose-up after the run is completed). I can vaguely recall seeing some warheads painted or coated black at some point, but I'm not sure if these were live rounds or something else. I also seem to recall seeing weapons that were all black except the warhead, covered with either paint or some kind of anodizing coating. The warheads might have been darkened somewhat (relative to the steel body of a clean torpedo) by the manufacturing method, since warheads were/are filled by pouring a heated, liquid explosive into the casing and letting it cool and solidify. And no, I'm not THAT old. The 14's were still being issued to boats into the mid-late 1970's as warshots for surface targets since the Mk37 was slow and expensive and a maintenance nightmare and the Mk48's were too rare and expensive for mere targets and were intended for anti-submarine use (and the less said about the Mk45 the better). Now, the standard Mk48 (sank the bow of the New Carrisa, din't it?) is the anti-ship weapon and the 48 ADCAP is the ASW unit. I spent many happy(?) hours cleaning, waxing and greasing Mk14's on the old Sperry during one non-memorable 2 week training duty. Just FYI, current (submarine) weapons are a very shiny (waxed) leaf green with the acoustic window in the front in black (OK, rubber). There is a yellow "ring" immediately behind the rubber window, and some others at various points. Exercise sections are International Orange. Surface/air/Asroc weapons (MK43/Mk44/Mk46) are fibreglass green body (cause that's what they're made of), dull metal afterbody (waxed/greased), warheads are chocolate brown (waxed, not as shiny as the glass midbody which is also waxed or greased for tube launch), nose ring is usually black or orange with the rubber acoustic window. Don't know much about the Mk50, 'cause the only ones I ever got to see were Blue (dummy/inert rounds). The parapacks attached behind the silver/grey props (for air drop) have dull aluminum flat surfaces fore and aft, with the middle of the drum-shaped device in olive drab (it's canvas, think the color of an Army tent). Regarding bombs, bullets (shells) and other expendable ordnance...the correct color is Ordnance Olive (also referred to as "artillery olive", I believe...another old Testor/Pactra color). Don't know if that exists anywhere anymore. It is a flat finish, yellow rings (HE frag) at nose usually, although the color bands actually indicate type of shell/bomb, so could be green, pale blue, black, orange, etc. People usually refer to this color as "olive drab", which it is not. They are distinctly different when put side by side in reasonably good light. The drab is much browner than the green(er) artillery color. That being said, at small scale, OD is probably close enough. If you can cumshaw a roll of "ordnance tape" (like duct tape only tougher and sticky-er and, obviously, green-er) from a buddy in the Navy, that is very near the right color. Oh yes, the usual disclaimers on the above information...all IMRC and...IMHO...and... Tim Brooks TMC(technician) (SW) USNR-R (Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Burl Burlingame Subject Re Pearl Harbor Salvage The pictures Wallin used, plus many others, are in the "Admiral Furlong Collection" at the Hawaii State Archives BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "O'Connor" Subject DLG 1 Norfolk There is a kit of the DLG 2 class available in 1/700 scale from Loose Cannon Models. I built it and it comes out fine. It's a very unique ship design and worth the money for a good and "different" kit subject. Bob O'Connor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Rob and Rose Brown Subject 1/600 Scale Walrus Hi there I am looking for a few 1/600 Walruses (Walrii?) for some Airfix cruiser conversions. Does anyone have an extra one or two in the parts box from an old Suffolk, Belfast, or KGV that they would like to part with? Will pay all costs involved. Cheers Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "johnny.geldhof17" Subject Re figurines L'arsenal Hello, You can go to the link of L'Arsenal www.larsenal.com The figures you're looking for are mentioned under the number AC 350 25 and cost EUR 11.95 without shipping They are mentioned under the link 'Catalogue --> 1/350" AC 350 25 Personnages échelle 1/350 1/400 en résine 11,95 eur There are about 50 figures in the pacage and there are 15 different attitudes. Just go to the link and see how to order. Regards, Johnny Geldhof http//users.skynet.be/royalnavy.sectionbelge/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "Bill Livingston" Subject Steve McLaughlin - Russian Battleships >> I ran this by Steve McLaughlin, author of the new English language book on Russian battleships << Hi, Could you post some details of this book please? I have checked Amazon and cannot find it (although I can find "The Hybrid Warship" and so on. An ISBN number would be wonderful. Thanks in advance, Bill Livingston Cambridge UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From keith.vokes@exxonmobil.com Subject Re Pearl Harbour Salvage & reconstruction My sincere thanks to all those who responded to my query on 'Salvaging the Battleships post Pearl Harbour' I assume the two books mentioned do not deal with the reconstruction of those ships. Oklahoma I know foundered on her way to the scrapyard, so are there any books available on the reconstruction of Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Maryland, Nevada, California & West Virginia. If so are they still in print? Regards, Keith Vokes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "lamkeel" Subject Re Castle on the River Hunt? Hi All For those interested in Armed Trawlers of both WWI (1914-18) and WW II (1939-45) I have both types drawn (and their weapons) on my web site. www.john-lambert-plans.com Yours "Aye" John (and still drawing)! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume