Subject: SMML VOL 2463 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:22:02 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ADMIN 1 Thanks for the well wishes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Essex-class elevator question 2 Re Blue Fresnel lens [Marine Navigation Lights ] 3 Re PT Boat flags 4 Re Info on 1945 USN "Bobtailcruiser" - USS Carronade (IFS 1) 5 Re PT Boat question 6 French Naval books 7 Mk 49 Director 8 Re Essex class (SCB conversoin) starboard elevator locatons 9 SCB-27C #3 Elevator Locations 10 Re Blue lights on land vehicles 11 Movie CV-3?? 12 Colours inside modern RN Ships bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 WTB Revell 1/1200 Roma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ADMIN POST ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Shane Subject Thanks for the well wishes Hi all, Just a quick note to say that I'm now well enough to take over the reins from Mistress Lorna - actually I've been well enough for a few weeks now, but I have been busy with other matters including SANDLE. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all for their well wishes during my stay in hospital and during my recovery - not a pleasant way to celebrate one's 40th birthday let me tell you. Aw well that "Pi$$-up" will have to wait until later on in the year ;-( Finally, here's to the Mistress (raising a glass of Single Malt) for the wonderful job that she has done this past 2 months with SMML. All the best, Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From jodie Subject Essex-class elevator question hi all -- Rick asked >>aircraft elevator from the center of the flight deck to the starboard side. On at least two of the ships (Intrepid CVA-11 and Ticonderoga CVA-14) the starboard deck edge elevator seems to be set quite a bit farther aft than was the case with the others. Does anyone know the story of the Essex class starboard elevator locations and are there any other Essex class ships that had the far aft elevator locaton? << Intrepid, Tico and Hancock (CVA-19) had this elevator set farther aft. They were the initial SCB-27C conversions and briefly operated as -27C carriers with open bows and straight decks. They received the angled-deck SCB-125 conversion in a separate yard period years later. The other -27C/-125 ships (Lexington, Bon Homme Richard, Shangri La) received both modernizations during the same yard period, and by that point the Navy had decided to put the elevator in the same spot as on the -27A/-125 ships (the -27A conversion didn't include a starboard elevator). Oriskany, remember, was a separate case because she was completed as the prototype -27A but was upgraded to "-27C" standard (steam catapults, etc.) during her SCB-125A modernization. I don't know the reason why the initial -27C conversions had the elevator situated so far aft, or why it was moved forward on all the other ships. Could be a mechanical thing, an architectural thing or a structural thing, or a matter of practicality. I dunno. I thought it was weird the first time I saw it, as I was used to the elevator being farther forward, but when I found out about the separate yard periods, it made sense. Caution is warranted to anyone building any modernized Essex -- there's no such thing as ONE standard "modernized" version. There are differences in deck configuration, equipment, catapults, armament, bow shape, elevator placement, etc., etc., -- and there's even sub-flights of flights of modernization. I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.... jodie (who's only wasted the last 17 years of her life studying the Essexes, anyway) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Arthur Herrick" Subject Re Blue Fresnel lens [Marine Navigation Lights ] On 17 March Tom Detweiler testology@inreach.com posted the following inquiry [ Edited ] Subject Blue Fresnel lens >> I have from my old USN destroyer USS Higbee DD-806 (now on eternal patrol) a Fresnel lens that is blue -- kind of a cobalt blue. It's about 8" diameter and 10" high or so ...... .......... What would a Blue Fresnel lens be used for on a Vietnam era Gearing DD? Can't find any reference to it in my old bluejackets manual, but I bet someone on this list knows the answer! << Tom, On 17 March I posted a Message on SMML, saying I have seen blue lens navigation lights at the Mystic Seaport Museum, but the staff did not known what their use was. During ongoing research I have also found that the WW I, 110ft Sub Chasers, were equipped with both white and blue 12 point lens stern lights. This my be a clue to the blue lights you found on DD-806. Where blue stern lights used in WW I and WW II war time situations, when ships were traveling in a group. It seems the answer is YES. In the case of the WW I Sub Chasers; when cruising in line at night in sub infested waters, they were blacked out except for the Blue lens 12 point stern light. It is also noted that it is said that these blue lights were only visible from a limited distance compared to the normal white lens stern lights. I did not bother to look it up, but someone posted a message saying that blue stern lights were used in the blacked out Atlantic merchant convoys in WW II. It has just dawned on me that the painting instructions for kits I have of Japanese fighters and bombers aircraft from the 1930s, indicate that their Starboard wing tip lights are blue; not green as I would normally assume ! Now I am in a quandary, because I have said above ... "these blue lights were only visible from a limited distance compared to the normal white lens stern lights." One would think that aircraft navigation lights should be highly visible. In the case of the fighter aircraft; they also carried a blue light half way out on the top of each wing? I wonder if these lights were for blacked out formation flying ? Tom from the answering postings to your "Blue Fresnel lens" Thread; I would say the navigation light you have is a WW II wartime stern light. Because these blue lights were a "wartime initiative", is the reason you will not find them referenced in the International Rules of the Road. The present International Rules of the Road going back to Great Britain in 1884, and the adoption by the United States Congress in 1885, with joint Britain/U.S. clarifications in 1889. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Bill Michaels Subject Re PT Boat flags >> Would a PT Boat at sea display her colors on the mast or at the staff on the stern? << PT Boats would display their flags as any other US Warship would When not underway (anchored or tied to a pier) the National Ensign is flown from the stern. Larger vessels also fly the jack (blue flag with 50 stars) at the bow. When a ship gets underway, the bow and stern flags are taken down and the US flag is flown from the mast. Bill Check out my list of USCG subjects in model kit form home.earthlink.net\~billkaja\kitlist.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Ouellette, Lawrence M" Subject Re Info on 1945 USN "Bobtailcruiser" - USS Carronade (IFS 1) From JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) wrote >> I believe this ship was made at the end of WW II. Lindbergh made a 168 scale model several years ago. Do you have any information on this ship? << I have the Lindberg kit and located these pages about the USS Carronade (IFS 1) http//www.hazegray.org/danfs/amphib/ifs1.htm The Haze Gray page is the standard DANFS information on the ship. http//www.navsource.org/archives/10/06001.htm The NavSource page has pictures of the Carronade underway. http//community-2.webtv.net/HUSKY5/USSCARRONADEIFS1/ A website for former crewmen. http//brownwater-navy.com/vietnam/RIVcombatships.htm This site has close-ups of the rocket launchers. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http//www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From ConnellyTG@aol.com Subject Re PT Boat question At the mast, like all USN vessels at sea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "L'Arsenal" Subject French Naval books Hello, Just a quick note about what said Harold about the possibility to buy French Naval Books from L'Arsenal. As Marines Editions changed ownership, I can no longer distribute their books. So you have to ask them directly about the availability of their titles. As for Navires et Histoire, no problem, they are good friends and I distribute their fine range of books. Their latest addition is a special issue of the Navires et Histoire magazine about the French Navy in years 2004-2005. Volume 1 describes the Charles de Gaulle carrier, Jeanne d'Arc, all major surface units and all patrol and auxiliairies. For those interested in la Marine Nationale, this is a useful addition. Best regards from Normandie, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal www.larsenal.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Robert P. Mattis" Subject Mk 49 Director Does anyone know where I can find either drawings or good photographs for the Mk-49 gun dircetors as used on the USS Atlanta, CA-51. Bob Mattis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "keith" Subject Re Essex class (SCB conversoin) starboard elevator locatons Hi SMMLies, The Hancock also had one like the other two, more aft and I'd like to know why as well. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From AAA Hobby Supply Subject SCB-27C #3 Elevator Locations >> Does anyone know the story of the Essex class starboard elevator locations and are there any other Essex class ships that had the far aft elevator locaton? << The three units with the aftmost elevators are the 3 initial SCB-27C conversions which were done BEFORE the SCB-125 conversion was instituted. The third unit so converted was ther Hancock. This conversion was based on the -27A conversion but included provisions to handle and deploy special weapons (nukes) and the elevator relocation was made so a special weapons elevator could be installed. The Raven "Essex Class Carriers" book shows this as the "5,500 lb Bomb Elevator" and it's location was initially dictated by the space used to store the nukes ... and was right in the way of the #3 outboard elevator installed on the SCB-27As! The NavSource phot at http//www.navsource.org/archives/02/021127.jpg shows this lift as a whiteish rectangle between the island and the #3 elevator. The other two bomb elevators are also painted the same color and are fwd of the island near the #2 cat. The larger one forwardmost is a 16,000 lb lift and the middle lift is a smaller 3,000 lb lift. BTW, this is the only ship I have seen the bomb lifts painted this way - if they were on other ships, I haven't seen the photos yet. I still have not found documentary evidence to support this point - but I have been told by a former officer of Tico that the 3 -27Cs had balance/trim issues with the location of the #3 elevator; I suspect being further from the CG and having extra platforms around it didn't help. In the 3 ships getting a combined -27C/125 the decision was made to install the #3 lift in the same location as the -27A ships and simply move the special weapons elevator forward a little bit to clear the way for the bomb lift. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject Re Blue lights on land vehicles Several years ago it was illegal to display a blue light on a non-emergency vehicle in Massachusetts. The blue light was reserved for emergency vehicles (Police vehicles, fire engines, etc.) only, I don't know about currently. I assume that regulation is still valid. But I am not about to test it. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From AAA Hobby Supply Subject Movie CV-3?? >> Whenever I watch "Midway" [snip] "The Wings of Eagles" << This ship was supposedly USS Princeton as she was in Long Beach during the time the film was made. I can find no independent confirmation of this, and none of the movie sites I have ever seen mention the carrier in this movie, but consider the facts The film was made in 1957 The ship involved was an unconverted Essex with all 4 5" deck mounts That narrows the list to Princeton Tarawa Valley Forge Philippine Sea Boxer Leyte Franklin Bunker Hill Of these, Franklin & Bunker Hill were decommissioned in a fully repaired state. Franklin was stored at Bayonne, Bunker Hill at Bremerton. Of the active carriers, Tarawa, Leyte, & Valley Forge were in LantFlt This leaves Philippine Sea, Boxer, and Princeton in PacFlt. Of these, Princeton is the only ship homeported in the LA area (Long Beach) and the only ship already with a 3 on the hull. Philippine Sea did make local oeprations off the coast of California in the spring of 1957, so it is possible she was used. My money would go on Princeton unless I can find evidence to contradict this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From M Brown Subject Colours inside modern RN Ships bridge Mike, When Northumberland came in 2001, her bridge inside walls were Light Admiralty Grey. Can't remember the deck colours on the bridge other than grey. Was too busy peering out from the bridge & trying to get shots down into her VLS. Try good old Dark Admiralty Grey, that would have been her outside deck colours then. Hull etc. were BS381C 676 Light Weatherworks Grey. Her windscreen motors, other motors and outside electrical equipment boxes on her hanger rear were also LAG. Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "donald p morgan" Subject WTB Revell 1/1200 Roma I'm looking for a Revell Miniships kit, 1/1200 scale, of the Italian battleship "Roma" (sometimes identified in the box art as Impero). Can any one in SMML land point me to a kit in the U.S. of A.????? My local hobby shop tells me that this kit is no longer in production. Help, anyone ??? Don Morgan San Antonio, Tx. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume