Subject: SMML VOL 2473 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 02:04:44 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re French Predreadnaughts 2 Re Mid-50s Destroyers 3 What to see in Chicago 4 Carrier Picture 5 Re Visiting London 6 Re German U-Boat 7 Re Icebreaker Tanker 8 Re Help on mid-50s active USN Destroyers 9 FLAG HOIST 10 Re Subchasers and a mystery ship 11 Re French Predreadnoughts ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Leslie D. Foran" Subject Re French Predreadnaughts I feel compelled to second Peter Webster's opinion on the Russian French Pre-dreadnaught kits, preferring full-hulled, 1/600 scale models myself. There are a lot of good 1/600 scale injection-molded kits out there, Airfix being a good example. I would like very much to be able to purchase full-hull, 1/600 scale kits of these ships at the reasonable prices mentioned, and to get them in resin, to boot! Les Foran Too Long out of Salt Water ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Ned Barnett Subject Re Mid-50s Destroyers >> I am ready to embark on a tutorial on model ship building for the very large and active Atlas Model Railroad N-Scale Forum (6000 or more members, about 4000 posts per day). I haven't posted much here for the past few years, and am certainly not an expert ship builder, but this Atlas Forum has expressed an interest on how to scratch build ship models, based on some that I have displayed on my railroad. My project will be a USN destroyer visiting a US East Coast harbor in the mid-50s. I originally chose a Bristol (Benson-Livermore) class, but now realize many or all of them had been scrapped by the mid-50s. So, I ask this forum what class destroyer would be visiting (or based in) an East Coast base? Gearing?? I'm hoping the Bristol class survived into the 50s, as it is smaller than the Fletcher/Summer/Gearing class. N-Scale, for those of you unfamiliar with model railroading, is 1160. Many detail parts in 1192 can be used, so this isn't a problem. But I'm a model railroader with a large harbor, so I just don't know what the USN kept after WWII, and what FRAMs it might have undergone in--say--1956. << Pete I'm an N-Scaler myself, and dream of having a harbor (dream of having a layout large enough for a harbor); I've already (conceptually) designed my mid-50s maritime museum of (small) ships, including a Gato sub, an LST and maybe a PT - a destroyer, roughly 2 feet long in N, is more than I can even dream of (and I might have to change the Gato to a VIIc and the LST to a PC). I've also (conceptually) designed both an aviation and an armor museum, but reality suggests that a 4x6 layout isn't going to have much room for these multi-hobby features on my N-layout (I just finished the room last night, and was disappointed to find that 4x6 is about all that will fit into my converted-from-a-garage hobby room). A quick review of several published sources in my library suggest that Summer-Gearing destroyers were most likely to be in a US East Coast harbor, on active duty, in the mid-50s. A very few Fletchers survived, but none of the earlier ships. FRAM started about this time, but they were few in number before 1960, so you could work around them. Four thousand posts a day? How do you keep up? Sounds like an interesting list if I forego my job, my modeling and my family life ... Any less active N-lists you care to recommend? Ned Barnett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Roland Mar Subject What to see in Chicago TO Chicago area SMMLies I have a daughter who is going to be giving her senior recital for her music degree in the Fall, which we will be attending. Her school is in Wisconsin, and I have just forcefully been given to understand that a side trip to Chicago for a day or two is mandatory. The only thing that this mountain boy from Colorado had thought would be worth visiting while the wife and daughter are shopping was the U-505. However, I heard that they are erecting a building around her, and so it is off limits for the next couple of years. So, any suggestions for naval oriented stops; ships, bookstores, museums, hobby shops, etc.? My only previous experience with the city has involved middle of the night layovers at O'Hare, which admittedly did not endear the city to me; so directions and addresses would be really helpful. Thanks, Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From J.L.Pickstock@lboro.ac.uk Subject Carrier Picture In my research of Pearl Harbor railroads I came across this pic of a carrier.(Railroad cars are circled) Anyone any ideas of her identity? What interests me is that she has aircraft aboard. This suggests a couple of things. That shes in for a quick re-supply and didn't fly off her A/c or the A/c have been loaded at the dock for delivery. Any comments or ideas? Hi all, Photo has been uploaded to the SMML site under Misc Ship Photos in the Reference Section Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "David Hathaway" Subject Re Visiting London Visit the Science museum when you are in London - they have a very good selection of builder's models of warships (sail, steam, WWI, WWII and modern) and civilian ships (similar). The ship gallery has not been revamped to be "multi-media" and "hands on" and "no brains needed" yet so there are just rows of models - heaven! A walk along the Embankment is interesting as there is a WWI escort sloop (HMS President - ex HMS Saxifrige?), a WWII escort sloop (HMS Wellington?) and a paddle-steamer tied up there. All off-limits to the public as they are resturants or drill ships but interesting to look at. David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re German U-Boat >> In 1984, while in Tokyo, I bought an approximately 1/160 [N scale] German sub identical to the new Revell model except that it was designed uniquely. It could be made into a waterline model easily by removing the lower half. The separation was along the sub's waterline << Sounds somewhat like the Nichimo Type IX kits. These are 1200 scale, and the lower hull is all one piece. They make a Type IX-B and IX-C. These are still manufactured. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) X-Mailer Juno 5.0.33 Subject Re Icebreaker Tanker >> Anyone out there know where to find plans of the tanker converted to an icebreaker tanker SS Manhattan? << Small size plans for the original Manhattan were published in a paper on tankers built by Bethlehem Steel in the Transactions of the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers. I am on the road and do not have access to my books until mid May, so can't tell you the year, probably in the late '60s or early '70s. The conversion to an ice-breaking bow was done by Sun Shipbuilding as a test and there is probably a technical paper, I just don't remember if plans were published. Other than the bow, the remainder of the ship was unchanged. The ship made one trip to the Arctic, which was basically successful. But the decision to build the Alaskan pipeline from the North Slope had already been made. The ship sustained one small hole in the original, un-strengthened hull. George Levine Currently near Ocala Florida ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Mike Potter Subject Re Help on mid-50s active USN Destroyers For a small destroyer active in the 1950s, could you accept a DE/DER? In particular you could scale up Revell's USS Buckley to model USS William T. Powell (DE/DER 213), a USNR training ship based in Philadelphia until 1957. From http//www.hazegray.org/danfs/escorts/de213.htm "William T. Powell operated off the eastern seaboard of the United States ranging from Casco Bay to Cape Henry to Key West and into the West Indies and Guantanamo Bay. Her ports of call included Newport; Norfolk; Boston; New York City." Purists (this is SMML) will need to modify her to a DER with two 5-inch guns, a tripod mainmast, and other details. Scratch-building a 1/160-scale destroyer of any class is ambitious. A much larger but nonetheless easier and cheaper alternative might be the recent 1/200 paper model of the cruiser HMS Sheffield. See http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3185835378&category=2590. The cruisers of this class were active in the mid-1950s and it's possible that one or two called at US east coast ports. At least a few lost X turret for additional AA guns. With a paper model, you can duplicate parts with a copier. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "DUCKMAN" Subject FLAG HOIST HOWDY ALL, O.K., NO ONE COULD HELP WITH NEWS OF THE 1/350 TRUMPETER LIBERTY SHIP. HOW ABOUT THIS? CAN ANYONE DIRECT ME TO A WEBSITE WHERE I CAN FIND THE FLAGS USED IN NELSON'S SIGNAL "ENGAGE THE ENEMY MORE CLOSELY"? THANKS, DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From RCClem@aol.com Subject Re Subchasers and a mystery ship I have read with interest the notes on subchasers. My grandfather served on the USS Olympia during the post-WW1 peace-keeping efforts in the Adriatic Sea. We have a photo taken in Spalato, Dalmatia dated mid-1919 which clearly shows SC 338 in large white letters on the bow. Another shows a superstrructure with a life preserver and the letters US SC 338. A third photo dated 5-23-19 shows 3 subchasers leaving Spalato, escorted by a larger ship. One of the more intrigueing photos that I cannot explain is a photo taken 9-15-1919 in Smyrna, Turkey. The caption is "Greek Battleship Firing Salute to Admiral Bristol". The photo clearly shows a Geek Flag at the foremast, just above the US flag. But I swear the ship has two tall cage masts, twin stacks, and a high pre-dreadnought bow. The stern appears to be very close to the waterline. I can only see one large turret at the bow. It LOOKS like a battleship but it also seems too short to be one. Without any research, it does not add up. Why the US flag under the Greek flag? Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Marc Flake Subject Re French Predreadnoughts OOOPs, in transliterating the Cryllic letters, I seem to have misspelled the manufacuters name. It is not Abrilful, it is Aprilfool. Marc With my sincerest apologies. ;^D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume