Subject: SMML VOL 2477 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:44:57 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Latest on Queen Mary 2 2 What to see in Chicago 3 Re Zevelda 1/100 kits 4 Re Zevelda 5 Re Cage Masts 6 Re Migraine 3 convertion Set for Revell Lionfish 7 Re Zevelda 1/100 kits 8 Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? 9 Paint 10 Kitech 1/600 Charles de Gaulle 11 Re French BB in Fiume 12 1/600th Charles De Gaul 13 WWI Subchaser Documents 14 Disposition of USS Oriskany 15 CV Hanger Decks 16 Re Zvezda 1/100 kits 17 A question for all -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 New WEM PE Set Coming ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Graeme Martin" Subject Latest on Queen Mary 2 This news flash below was in the latest Revell Newsletter sent me April 8th 2003. Ullrich Taubert "Shortly before the Nuremberg Toy Fair, we realized that Heller also intended to market the QUEEN MARY 2. Revell had planned to take 1/570 as the scale, Heller 1/600, in other words a genuine parallel development, which was certainly not in the modellers' interests. During the fair, therefore, a joint decision was taken by senior management and sales to redefine the project. Revell will now produce the model in 1/400 scale. See the comparison below OLD - NEW Scale 1/570 [old] 1/400 [new] No. of parts Approx.. 260 400 - 450 Model length 60,5cm (23,8 inch) 86,3cm (34 inch) Model height 12,6cm (5 inch) 18cm (7,1 inch) The delivery date for a 1/570 model that was planned for September 2004 has now been moved to November 2004 due to the enormous size. Every detail of the project will be completed in the closest possible co-operation with the Alstom shipyard in St. Nazaire/France and the Cunard Line London/UK using CAD techniques. This will ensure the maximum accuracy in terms of the assembly and detail. The new size is ideal for the inclusion of a remote control system and the model can also be fitted very easily with illumination. There's plenty of space available. We are certain that the decision we have taken is a wise one and is in the interests of all modelling enthusiasts. The store price has subsequently been changed from â?¬ 29.99 to â?¬ 49.99. This new price is subject to change, however, so that a final price of â?¬ 59.99 is also possible. We will keep you fully informed of progress made in the development work." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Kurt Van Dahm" Subject What to see in Chicago Roland The U505 submarine is making the move to the new display area, about 1,000 feet total trip on Thursday, April 7, 2004. The new display area will be below ground and the roof of the display area will have the front lawn replaced over the top when completed. The new display will open in the spring of 2005. The museum does have a collection of 45 model ships in their Hall of Ships and the US Navy exhibit is quite interesting with a very nice model of the Bonhomme Richard sinking and all shot up that was done by members of our clubs. The model was made up and rigged and then the bottom of the hull was sawn off with a band saw to get the proper list as she sank and then was shot up with a BB gun to get a very authentic look to the doomed craft. Shep Paine did up hundreds of figures for the diorama. A real nice exhibit. Navy Pier has a bunch of tourist dinner cruise boats (powered) and only the rare Navy or Coast Guard craft visits the Pier. Nothing real interesting to see there. The Chicago Maritime Society collection is not open to the public unless you are in town during on of the monthly member nights. This may change soon as they may be getting the former fire station at the now closed lakefront Meigs Field Airport - now know only as Northerly Island - for their museum/headquarters. They have some nice models and a lot of research materials that hopefully will soon be open to the public. The only hobby shop that specializes in model ships is in the NW suburb of Mt. Prospect just north of O'Hare Airport. Unfortunately, Gus, the owner is in poor health and the only day one can be sure they will be open is Saturdays when the other partner is there. For the city that once was the busiest port in the world (1860's - 70's) we sure don't have much in the way of maritime stuff of interest at the moment. We do have 3 very active scale ship model clubs and if you happened to be in town when any of the clubs meet we would welcome you to our meetings. If you are around for the first or third Wed. evenings of the 2nd Saturday evening in the month contact me about locations. Maybe somebody else locally can be more positive on stuff for you to see. Take care, Kurt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From William Swan Subject Re Zevelda 1/100 kits >> I have read that the "new" kits now sold by Zeveda are actually former Heller 1/100 kits. Could anyone please comment on this, and on the Zeveda kit quality for those kits. This would be helpful especially given the costs of these kits. Thanks. << Randy, the three kits now sold by Zvezda are indeed repops of the old Heller kits. I have examples of both and I think that they are equal in quality. There has been no dimunition of quality since the Heller days. They are quite nice. There are, however, some fit issues that have to be resolved that have to do with design. The kits share a great many common pieces and in order to make the hulls common some compromises were made. There are no insurmountable problems, just care needs to be taken as the hull of the brigantine will also become the hull of the steam screw sloop and the paddle wheeler! They do build up into beautiful kits though. I have a picture of the completed brigantine if you are interested, let me know. William Swan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From MPMenache@aol.com Subject Re Zevelda Hello, Regarding Zevelda. They have taken the old Heller kits and renamed them. For exmple the ship called "Sirius" was the old" L'Occident". Which is similar to the Sirius. I don't know the quality of these kits but I think they are well molded. michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From John Snyder Subject Re Cage Masts >> A few of the more modern 2nd generation ships, some ofthe Marylands and Californias, for example, carried their cage masts through WW II. << Oh Gary, Gary, Gary....neither CALIFORNIA nor TENNESSEE retained their cage masts after their major rebuilds, which left them looking like clipper-bowed South Dakotas. Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com for secure online ordering. For the latest news from WEM, Click Here http//www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/whats_new1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Rui Francisco Matos" Subject Re Migraine 3 convertion Set for Revell Lionfish Hi Tom! I anwsered to your email, but it there was a mail delivery failure. So here's my anwser to you Hi Tom!! Thank you for such an excellent answer! Had several answers directly to my email, but all pointed to the Nautilus models conversion sets!!!! I understand that are models in 1/350 of the Gato/Balao and a set with the 3 different sails, but, if you checked my models on the gallery, I'm used to work in models in bigger scales, and since I have the space to put them ) I have the Norman Friedman's books on American Submarines (pre-45 and after 45) and I understand that the work involved in making those subs out of the Revell Lionfish is great - but then, I'm a ship modeler!! The freeflood limber holes "problem" I can deal with them. Already have and will again ) I undertand that for Guppy III conversions I also have to extend the hull - this is a relatively easy proceding! As a bottom line I would like to make a Guppy I/II with the different sails (Atlantic, Northern and Portsmouth), a Guppy III (because of the lenght difference) and a Migraine boat - because it's sooooo strange!!!!!! With a cheap model and a lot of work I can put a nice evolution of a class from the 40's to the 60's - 9 boats all together. Tom, if you can provide help with the Dave's article and the conversion article for the Guppy sail I would be much pleased! You can send the information to this email, please. I'll keep you informed on the (slow) progress. Thank you once again for such valuable help, From Lisbon, Portugal Rui Matos (aka Skipper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "JPasquill" Subject Re Zevelda 1/100 kits The Zvezda 1/100 scale kits are former Heller kits. You can still see the original Heller versions on Ebay from time to time. I purchased the Zvezda Brigantine. Though expensive (but only in comparison to stuff being molded in Asia) the kit quality is very good. The Heller molds seem to have lasted well. The detail is crisp and there is very little flash. I was surprised because my other forays into Russian produced injection molded stuff have not been as good. For example the Russian produced Light Vessel Goodwin has a lot of flash. The spars are a bit soft peraps due to the sytren being used, so that care will be needed in rigging. I plan to substitute real wood. There is minimal rigging line. I can't say if it's enough or not as I have not built it. The instructions are sparse but anyone that has built a plastic kit before should be able to figure it out without difficulty. I like the Brigantine. I paid $64 in a hobby shop but I've since found it for as low as $49. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "Katz, Gene S" Subject Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? I've wondered if the cage mast had any influence on the Barnes-Wallis design of the RAF Wellington bomber? It's airframe structure was far diff then the usual ribbed and stringer bomber design. It looked somewhat like a woven cage mast lying on its side, fabric covered, supposed to have great strength and flexibility. Gene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From EDBRIGDALE@aol.com Subject Paint Paint for ship modelers? I would interested in views of Smml'es on paint basics, acrylic v solvent based or other formulations, with air brushes in mind now they are so common. Ed Brigdale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "Ant Phillips" Subject Kitech 1/600 Charles de Gaulle Neil Taylor wrote >> So I ask all you , brothers and sisters, does this kit exist and if so where can I get one? << Neil they come up on Ebay all the time, there's one there now in fact http//cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3186534342&category=4248 I bought one a while back, its a motorised kit -( and fit is a little rough & ready in places but nothing basic modelling skills cant overcome. IIRC there's a fair selection of aircraft provided, E-2C, Rafale & Super Etendard. Happy modelling Ant Phillips ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Roland Mar Subject Re French BB in Fiume TO Roger Clemons I cannot be sure, and it in fact may be a pre-dreadnought that I do not have data on; but the description bears a resemblance to the DANTON class BB, with some differences. I do not know how clear the picture is or at what angle it was shot, but the DANTON's [authorized in 1906, in service in 1911] were close. They had the bow and the tumblehome. However, they had 5 stacks grouped three immediately aft of the bridge and foremast, with a large gap then two just before the main mast and aft superstructure. The interesting thing is that [counting from the bow] stacks numbers three and four were much thinner than 1 & 2 and stack number 5 was somewhere between 1 and three in thickness. All the stacks had the black reducer cap. Depending on the angle, one of the thinner stacks could be masked and not visible. She carried 4- 12" main guns in two twin turrets, one each fore and aft on the centerline. She carried 12- 9.45" secondary guns in 6 twin turrets arranged three on a side, but once again depending on the angle of the photo one of the side turrets could be masked from view. [I know, not a true all big gun dreadnought. These were a kind of a transitional class as the French did not want to give up on volume of fire with the secondaries.]. Between stacks 3 & 4 there should be a pair of low, hefty cranes, then two large ship's boats. The secondary turrets are arranged on each side; between stacks 1 &2, level with the pair of cranes amidships, and slightly aft of the midpoint between stacks 4 & 5. As best my sources show, the DANTON's were the last French BB class with only two main turrets on the centerline, and of the period the only ones with more than three stacks. However, I may not have all the data. I do note that in the various modifications over their lives, French BB's of later classes kept changing the number of stacks they had; but that was after the period under consideration. Of the 6 ships of the DANTON class, all were used in the Eastern Med, but some can be disregarded. DANTON was sunk March 19, 1917. I have no data for the time in question for the CONDORCET and the DIDEROT. MIRABEAU ran aground in February 1919 off the Crimean coast and was salvaged in April 1919, but the salvage operation required the removal of the foreward main turret and most of her armor. If for some reason she was in Fiume on Bastille Day 1919, she would have been a sorry sight. VERGNIAUD was operating off of the Crimea against the Bolsheviks from February to September 1919, and went into the reserve fleet on October 1, 1919. Not a likely candidate, unless she was "pulled off the firing line" for a port visit. Which leaves VOLTAIRE, which was severely damaged by a mine off of Milos in the Aegean [between Crete and the Greek mainland] on October 20, 1918. Could she have been all the way around Greece and in port in Fiume at the head of the Adriatic in July 1919? It is possible that she was completing repairs there, but that is conjecture. If she was in dire straits when mined, it would have made more sense to make for Taranto where extensive emergency repairs could be made [this is before the end of WW I, and Italy and France were allies]. If she was able to sail safely, she likely would have made for Toulon and a French naval base. The best candidates for this French BB seem to me to be VOLTAIRE, CONDORCET, or DIDEROT; with an outside chance of it being VERGNIAUD. Having narrowed it down to some specific ships, it may be possible to have the French Archives check to see if they were in Fiume on that date. I hope this is of some help, Roland Mar PS. I have seen NO replies to my request to the list for naval sites, museums, or hobby and bookstores to visit in Chicago this fall. Must be a pretty grim place. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "Francis Macnaughton" Subject 1/600th Charles De Gaul Neil, The Kiteck 1/600th CDG definitely exists. I got one from a cheap DIY and housware store in Plymouth called Chaplin's about 18 months ago. The kit itself looks reasonably like the original although I have never measured it against any plans (it is 429mm along the flight deck if you can use that to judge the accuracy of scale). The main issue in building one would be that it is designed to allow a small motor and batteries to be accessed by removing the whole flight deck and I was not convinced that it would be simple to make the join look more permanent! I am very unlikely to build the one I got - contact me off list at francismacnaughton@hotmail.com if you want it instead for a fiver. Francis Macnaughton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From Todd Woofenden Subject WWI Subchaser Documents For those of you interested in WWI subchasers, here are a couple of items I have posted recently on www.subchaser.org Scan of "Minesweeping Orders for the Minesweeping Detachment," May 1919. This includes a list of sweeping components, instructions for using the "electrical protective device," and a lot of detail on the process of sweeping and neutralizing mines, including the role of the chasers. Also a couple of nice diagrams of the Mark VI mine used in the North Sea. (Located in the Document Archives section.) A photo spread of the ships in the Northern Russia Detachment , which are U.S.S. Des Moines, Sacramento and Yankton, Eagles No. 1, 2, and 3, and subchasers No. 354, 95 and 256. (Located in the Chasers section.) Todd Woofenden ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Rod Dauteuil" Subject Disposition of USS Oriskany Hello all, I read this in tonight's paper, courtesy of the Associated Press RETIRED SHIP TO BECOME ARTIFICIAL REEF Pensacola, Fla. - The retired aircraft carrier USS Oriskany will be sunk off the Florida coast this summer to serve as an artificial reef, the Navy announced Monday. The 888 foot Oriskany is the first vessel in a new program designed to dispose of obsolete warships by sinking them as a cheaper alternative to the scrap yard. The ship also will serve as an underwater military memorial. "It's going to make a lot of people happy. There is a lot of emotion associated with this ship," said Lee Puglia of the Oriskany Reunion Association, which campaigned hard for the site near Pensacola because of the ship's role as a pilot-training base. Much of the emotion stems from a magazine fire that killed 44 crewmembers off the coast of Vietnam in 1966. Some of the ship's pilots were also lost in combat. The Oriskany's former crewmembers include Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who was shot down and taken prisoner in North Vietnam after taking off from the ship in 1967. My comments Good. I'd rather see this than having the ship cut into scrap, sent overseas and returning as an import car or something else. My only reservation is how can they call this a memorial? A memorial is something to remind us of something. This will be underwater. Oh well. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From "Ray" Subject CV Hanger Decks Hi SMMLie's, While we have the thread going on CV hanger deck colors, I've got a related question I'm having a hard time finding "good" quality pictures of any short-hulled CV hanger decks. I've got AOTHS, In Detail, Freidman's tomes, Detail & Scale and wore out my computer looking on the web. I just need a couple of shots showing the shapes of the bents and girders and if any of them show the catwalks, so much the better. I would appreciate any leads. Thanx Ray Lathrop ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From "Rod Millard" Subject Re Zvezda 1/100 kits I've got three of the Zvezda kits . I'm working on the 1/72 Greek Triera. This kit can be made full hull or waterline. Its very nicely detailed. It has 114 oars so it is like a real greek war ship than the one Imai used to make. Now the 1/100 Brigentine and the 1/100 Pourquoi Pas could have been old Heller molds. They are missing any wood graining on the bottom part of the hull,which is a Heller trait.But still seem to be desent models. They are coming out with a 1/72 Roman ship which should be a new mold like the Greek Triera. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From Graeme Martin Subject A question for all I have been building Revell's 172 scale U-boat and what a delight it is to build. A very nice kit of a substantial size to make a great display model. I also have in the attic a 172 scale Flower Class Corvette kit and together with another U-boat kit I am purchasing want to do a large waterline diorama where the U-boat is surrendering to the Corvette. Obviously there could or would be other ships in the area and that is why the sub is surrendering to greater forces. But I want to be factual in that the U-boat number and the name and number of the Corvette is correct. So far my research has come up with............ Aconit K58 was with the destroyer Harvester on 11/3/1943 involved in forcing U444 to the surface mid-atlantic. Aconit held U444 in her searchlight and rammed her after the sub going ahead slowly and the Aconit on the charge with depthcharge fired immediately after ramming. 5 survivers were picked up. Then there was HMCS Oakville (a Canadian corvette) subduing German sub, U-94 in the Caribbean. But not much more detail than that. To make this diorama authentic, does anybody have anymore factual information on either of these two happenings or others and websites that I can go to? I have done all the usual U-boat web sites thus far. Thank you in advance, Graeme Martin of Model Ships Downunder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From John Snyder Subject New WEM PE Set Coming In response to requests, we've decided to release a 1/350 Modern USN Railings set, PE 3562. Peter Hall will be working on it shortly, so look for it soon. Of course, you can pre-order now.... Best, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com for secure online ordering. For the latest news from WEM, Click Here http//www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/whats_new1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume