Subject: SMML VOL 2478 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:39:00 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? 2 HMS HOOD eBay item! 3 Re Cage Masts 4 Re CV Hanger Decks 5 U-505 6 PE ease of use 7 Re Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? 8 Queen Mary 2 in model and full scale 9 Re French Battleship At Fiume After WW1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 FS MB/Blue Water Navy 1/350 Gearing DD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Graham Boak" Subject Re Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? I'm not very familiar with the cage masts of the US BBs, but surely they were not of geodetic form? The structure of the Wellington, as the Wellesley before it, was based on Barnes Wallis's experience in the design of airships, particularly the successful R100. It would take a better structural engineer than I, (or at least a more thorough read of the references!) to describe how the geodetic structure differed from all other aircraft structures of the period - apart from being much more complicated and difficult to produce - but it bears no relation to anything seen on a ship. Perhaps Buckminster Fuller's domes are a closer relation. I suspect that the structure of earlier aircraft - perhaps such pushers as the Vickers Gunbus, just to keep it in the family - bore a much closer resemblance to that of the cage masts, but this is just a matter of standard engineering practice of the time, not copying in any form. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Chris Hughes" Subject HMS HOOD eBay item! Check this out! http//cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2236630578&category=60659 I hasten to add that I'm not selling it, neither am I connected with the vendor. Chris Hughes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject Re Cage Masts Only the USS Maryland and USS Colorado retained remnants of their cage masts. When the USS Maryland was finally scrapped in 1959, it still had its lattice cage foremast Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "keith" Subject Re CV Hanger Decks Hi SMMLies, A reply to the question about the color of the Essex class hanger bulkheads. For those that have the Warship Pictorial #22 on Tico check out page 10. This clearly shows that the elevator area below the flightdeck but above the hangerdeck on elevator three is not white. It even looks darker then the navy blue on the hull but then that could be a lighting thing it's self. I would imagine elevator #1 is painted the same. Now the hanger it self had white bulkheads. That's my 2 cents, KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Robert Healy" Subject U-505 FYI... Bob Healy NNS040409-03. Museum of Science and Industry "Launches" U-505 Submarine on Final Voyage From Navy Office of Information Midwest Public Affairs CHICAGO (NNS) -- In an unconventional christening ceremony April 8, two Museum of Science and Industry benefactors smashed a champagne bottle against a German U-Boat's bow and launched the vessel on its final voyage--to a state-of-the-art exhibit hall. After 50 years of braving the Chicago elements, the U-505 is moving from an outdoor courtyard to an underground, climate-controlled space that will help preserve this unique World War II artifact. The new $35-million exhibit will immerse visitors in USS Guadalcanal (CVE 60) Task Force 22.3's dramatic search for, and capture of, the enemy submarine. Four members of the USS Pillsbury (DE 133) boarding party, who kept the U-505 from sinking after the German crew tried to scuttle it, were present to celebrate the event. Also on hand to witness the beginning of the submarine's remarkable journey were Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley; Cmdr. Craig Selbrede, commanding officer of USS Chicago (SSN 721); and Museum President David Mosena. "It is important to preserve artifacts like the U-505 so children will understand the great peril World War II service members experienced," Daley said. "It is important for all of us to discuss history with our children today, and it is important to reflect on the men and women who serve today to protect our freedoms." Selbrede told guests that the Navy gleaned important information from the U-505, the first enemy vessel captured by the Navy on the high seas since the War of 1812, such as intelligence that allowed the Navy to break German codes and to develop anti-torpedo countermeasures. "Many of the engineering principles we learned are still used in today's submarine force," he added, before thanking the City of Chicago for preserving this piece of Navy history. To prepare for the move, NORSAR Services Inc. of Everett, Wash., a company that specializes in lifting massive industrial and marine objects, cut away 50-year old concrete supports and replaced them with 18 remote-controlled dollies. The dollies will help the submarine roll approximately 1,000 feet over several days toward the new exhibit space. April 21 and 22, the 700-ton submarine will be lowered 42 feet into its new space with the help of a complex skid system. The U-505 exhibit at the Museum of Science and Industry is one of Chicago's treasures, and one of only five U-boats remaining worldwide. The submarine was nearly destroyed after the war, but supporters, including Task Force 22.3 Commander and Chicago native Rear Adm. Daniel Gallery, embarked on a fundraising campaign to bring the boat to the Midwest. After traveling through the St. Lawrence Seaway and through the Great Lakes, the U-505 rolled across Lake Shore Drive and into its current parking spot in 1954. Nearly 24 million visitors have toured it. The new underground exhibit will open in mid-2005. More information on the U-505, including Web cam footage of the move, is available at www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/index.html. For related news, visit the Navy Office of Information, Midwest, Navy NewsStand page at www.news.navy.mil/local/navinfomidwest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Allan and Crystal Plumb" Subject PE ease of use I had a Tom's railing set for a 1/350 Fletcher, and discovered that it was too bendable for _me_ to use. GMM was much easier for me. (This does not mean one is "better", just that _I_ couldn't work with Toms' set.) This fits with a comment I saw here as I was struggling with the original set. How does WEM PE compare to Tom's and GMM in ease of use? Not accuracy, but can I take a piece of railing and not have it go every which way on me because my fingers are too clumsy, or what? I'm talking mainly 1/400 or bigger PE, I prefer larger scale ships. 1/700, I'm just not gonna PE. Thanks for your input. Allan Plumb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Arthur Taylor" Subject Re Cage Mast Design in Aircraft? Gene Katz asks if the cage mast had any influence on the Barnes Wallis RAF Wellington bomber. I was privileged to work under Wallis as a young engineer, although, I hasten to add, long after the days of the geodetic structure embodied in the "Wellington", and before that the "Wellesley", and before that the designs responding to Air Ministry spec. G4/31. The concept of a geodetic (basket weave) structure for flying machines derived from studies for the R100 airship begun around 1924; it was actually used in that airship for the gas-bag mesh supports. Wallis' staff, many who had been with him through all those years, were not shy of giving me the lore, technical and political, of these momentous times; naturally, I lapped it all up. The attraction of the concept to Barnes was that the structure could be shaped to the complex exterior shape with the minimum of interior structure, thus resulting in a light weight compared to the standards of the time. B.N. Wallis was driven by high standards for aerodynamic and structural efficiency. I have no recollection at all of a reference to cage masts as a potential model for the geodetic structure. I suppose that both share the model of a waste paper basket made from cane with an open weave, but that is a tenuous link. I do recall much discussion of how the concept developed into the detail design of "spiral" members shaped in a complex way to fit the outside aerodynamic shape, and as important, the manufacturing genius that was required to determine how to tool and make the parts. There. Now back to ships. Brian Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Björn Bäcklund <08-7862824@comhem.se> Subject Queen Mary 2 in model and full scale Well I wasn't sure if I would buy the Airfix 1/600 kit or the Revell 1/570. I was leaning towards the Revell kit since I have the old queen Mary in the same scale and that Revell has been doing some very nice kits lately. I am not sure of the quality of the newer Airfix-Heller kits but it looks like there will be an Airfix kit for me now that Revell change their plans. Talking of the QM2 is there anyone in New York that could help me with some nice pictures of the QE2 and QM2 together. I will be on the QM2 arriving to New York but I am sorry that I will miss QE2 coming in later the same week. I would have liked to be there but I am hoping for some pictures. Björn Bäcklund ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From RCClem@aol.com Subject Re French Battleship At Fiume After WW1 Roland Mar did very well on my meager details to identify the French Battleship as a member of the Danton Class. The ship does indeed have 5 stacks. The third was so much thinner than the others that I thought it belonged to a background ship. The fourth stack has 2 white stripes on it and it is thinner than the fifth. The three secondary turrets are indeed located as he stated but must not be circular in shape, since the one that is pointed at the camera appears so much thinner in profile. Many details are lost to view due to huge canvas awnings over the fore and aft centerline turrets. No apparent damage. The main mast aft of stack 5 has been lowered and is shorter than the stack. The photo at Fiume has a faint caption that says French Battleship Condorce at Fiume. The photographer may have misspelled "Condorcet", French pronunciation being as it is. Thanks for the reply. Roger Clemens Hinsale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Tom Detweiler" Subject FS MB/Blue Water Navy 1/350 Gearing DD Hi fellow SMMLies -- On the post WW2 Destroyer thread, I have a For Sale or Trade to post I have a Brand New In Box, unassembled MB/Blue Water Navy Gearing kit, DD-710 -- resin 1/350-- circa Feb. 1945 WW2 fit-- this is the original MB kit brand new and I'll sell it for what I paid for it 10 years ago, OR I'll Swap it if anyone wants to trade for the historically later Gearing DDR-808 kit made by Yankee Model Works-- that one would be much easier for me to convert to the Fram-II (Asroc/Dash) DD-806 I need to build. John isn't in business to swap older models for new and I sure understand that, so I either have to sell or trade for it on SMML or Ebay. If anyone's interested please drop me an email, we'll work it out. Thanks -- Tom Detweiler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume