Subject: SMML VOL 2533 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:14:21 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? 2 british ss colors 3 Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? 4 British Subs WWII colors 5 Re Scratchbuilding in plastic from card model template 6 Re AP-President Jackson plans 7 Additional thought on AP-37 President Jackson 8 Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? 9 Mulberry harbours ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "George Peat" Subject Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? Simon, Ref item 3. What period and theatre of war are you looking for for the sub colours. Get back to me off group and I will see what I can do to assist George Peat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "elisha w" Subject british ss colors Pre war RN subs used three colors Home fleet subs were dark grey (507A) Mediterranean subs were dark blue overall Far East Subs were dark olive green (in the 1930s China Station subs were White!) during the war most subs were solid colors - either 507A, 507B or 507C for the Home Fleet, the choice of which shade may have been left to the individual boat or flotilla. PB10 (Royal Blue) was used for many Mediterranean "U" class boats, especially those of the 10th flotilla. Med "S" class boats may also have been painted in PB10 overall. Some submarines may have used overall black rather than dark grey or PB10. Far East "T" class boats seem to have been mostly 507A (or Black). The decision of the captain or flotilla commander, and the availability of any particular color of paint, may have played a big part in the choice of color for any given submarine. Late in 1944 2 standard camouflage patterns were adopted, but not applied to all boats. Scheme "H" was used in the Home Fleet. It called for alternating sections of white and B30 with PB10 on the pressure hull and ballast tanks. Main deck horizontal surfaces were painted black, or, at the captain's discretion 507A Foreign station subs used scheme "J". alternate sections of B20 and G45 with horizontal surfaces (including ballast tanks) all black. Diagrams of theses schemes have appeared in ROYAL NAVY WARSHIP CAMOUFLAGE by Peter Hodges (1973) RN CAMOUFLAGE PATTERNS VOL 4 by Alan Raven, and they are mentioned in Williams NAVAL CAMOUFLAGE 1914-1945. Accurate paints are available from WEM. STORM appears to have carried scheme "H", while "J" was used on TANTIVY, TRUANT, and THRASHER I painted my models of these 4 boats accordingly. Since you are usually dealing with a black and white photograph when you select any specific boat, you may have to guess about shades of color. Then again, This IS a hobby, and precise accuacy will often take second place to what looks good to the model maker. Good luck for whatever you choose. Aryeh Wetherhorn Elazar, Israel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From David Ian Moore Subject Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? Simon Re the Brit Subs Good info on page 41 of Ravens - Warship Perspectives vol 4 The same information is also in Hodges -RN WArship CAmouflage two basic schemes H and J H (home) Colors Pb10,B30 ,white, casing top and horizontal surfaces -black inside Bridge and Periscope standards- White the PB 10 (bright blue ) covered the ballast tanks with alternate sections on vertical hull either white or B 30 sections Bow ,stern and tower and below white fore and aft midship areas B 30 with demarcation lines at 45 % slope in opposite directions J (foreign stations) Black,B20,G45 all horizontal surfaces Black ,including ballast tanks vertical hull and tower alternate sections G45, B20 there were 5 irregular sections of B 20 starting at Bow and ending at stern including tower and below these were separated by G 45 angular sections at 20 and 45% Hope this helps Ian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Kelvin Mok Subject British Subs WWII colors >> Does ANYONE have information on British Royal Navy World War Two submarine colours?????? << The Encyclopedia of the World's Warships, ISBN 0 948427 05 01. Illustration of the U class submarine Upholder. Deep Blue topsides, thick Black middle band and Red below. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "milstudy" Subject Re Scratchbuilding in plastic from card model template Afternoon All! I'd just like to express my gratitude to all those who offered assistance with my query. I'm not a fan of "reinventing the wheel" and the quantity and quality of advice offered will ensure that doesn't happen! Where would we (I!) be without fellow modellers like you and a forum like SMML? Thank you all! Adrian Webster Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From PaulShip37@aol.com Subject Re AP-President Jackson plans For a starting point you might look at the old Ed Wiswesser plans of the President Jackson still available from www.windjammer-arts.com . Scale 1/32" = 1 ft ( 1384 scale) cost about $6.00. Done long ago and not museum quality but they give a fair idea of the general arrangement and include hull sections. In the last SMML someone offered to help with some photos, always a good way to go for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From PaulShip37@aol.com Subject Additional thought on AP-37 President Jackson I seem to recall that this class of ship was a derivant of the C-3 Maritime comission design, perhaps the version that had a fancier funnel and some addition passenger cabins intended for some pre-war shipping lines but taken over by the Navy at the beginning of the war. The only C-3 hull I can recall was the old Revell Hawaiian Pilot/ Doctor Lykes liner, but then I haven't kept up with the output but the resin companies the last few years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "John Snyder" Subject Re HELP What colour WWII Brit Subs? Hi Simon, RN submarines were painted in a variety of colours. Some were AP 507A Dark Admiralty Grey. Some Mediterranean boats were in PB 10, deep cobalt blue. Your friend probably needs to select a specific boat and research it. Best regards, John Snyder The Token Yank White Ensign Models http//whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From david@dhathaway.freeserve.co.uk Subject Mulberry harbours People Does anyone (UK would be best as that's where I am based) have the set of Airfix Magazines that include the articles on the D-Day Mulberry Harbours and be prepared to let me have a photocopy of those articles. There were 13 parts/articles - Part 1 in Vol 22 No 10 - June 1981 through to Part 13 in Vol 25 No 12 August 1984 Thanks in advance for any help - responses off-list might be best. David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume