Subject: SMML VOL 2538 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 23:01:16 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re True D Day 2 Trumpeter's Future Plans - Model Kit Survey 3 Re True D-Day 4 D Day and Jour J 5 Ford class SDBs ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From RDemeyere@aol.com Subject Re True D Day >>Thanks for your enlightening information. If I interpret the answers (and recall the timing) correctly, the D Day (June 5) initial invasion landings (June 6) really happened on D+1 Day. Would the following days really be D+1 Day plus one (June 7), D+1 Day plus two June 8, D+1 Day plus three (June 9), etc.? << D Day is a generic term used in the Landing Plan portion of an operations plan/order to create a fixed point (the day the landings occur) so that the various actions/activities that must proceed or follow it can be organized. Since the actual date of a landing or operation can move depending a lot of different circumstances (for example, crummy weather in the Channel), writers of the plan ( the issuing headquaters) will not put actual dates in the plan/order itself. If they were incorporated and then a delay was encountered, the plan /order would have to be recalled to be corrected and republished. And so on down the chain of command for each subordinate plan that had dates in it. Instead, the issuing headquarters will separately send out an implementing instruction (usually a short message) ordering the execution of the plan (that's when it becomes an operations order) and providing key dates (D Day 5 June 1944) , However, the operational commander is always the final authority in executing an operation or even a particular phase of an operation and may postpone or cancel an element if conditions are not right for its execution or it has become unnecessary for the success of the operation. In the Normandy landing instance, Eisenhower, as the overall commander, issued a message stating that D Day was set back from 5 June 1944 to 6 June 1944. Consequently, to answer to your question, D Day was the 6th of June 1944 because Eisenhower said it was the 6th of June and the commander sets the date for execution. Russ, aka "Rhino" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Graeme Martin Subject Trumpeter's Future Plans - Model Kit Survey Whether anything comes from this or not. It would be worth us all putting in our two cents worth. I for one would like to see an affordable 1350 scale HMS Hood on the market as well as a USS South Dakota class with options to build these models at different times of their career and or sister ships. Same goes for Scharnhorst and the proposal to put twin 15 inch mounts on her. The resin kits that have been turned out so far (some very poor, some very good, but very expensive) may fill a void for a few with money to burn. But the majority of us are left with the question, shall we try a card model conversion to sheet plastic or just dream on? USS Alaska and HMS Warspite are another couple I would like to see. Warspite could have three different conversions of her career. French and Italian battleships are quite beautiful in their own right. But probably would not be a commercial proposition. The mould costs are huge and one would have to sell a lot of units to recoup the original investment. We can but dream....... Graeme Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From THEGAVEL@aol.com Subject Re True D-Day In modern military planning D-Day is the day deployment begins. Thus D+30 would be the 31st day of deployment. Generally speaking any inplace forces, equipment or supplies would be coded as arriving on D-0. The utility of the D Day system is that you can assess transportation requirements versus capabilities with a computer and adjust the flow or determine shortfalls where additonal resources need to be acquired. No plan survives contact with the enemy or real life but a time phased force deployment list can serve as the baseline for an execution plan. John Gavel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Robert Lockie" Subject D Day and Jour J Hi Frankyn As I think I said before (if not, then I meant to and must have forgotten to do so), the reason for using ‘D’ and not a particular date is that if an operation is delayed (or brought forward), the plans do not need to be changed. Thus for Overlord, D was always going to be the day it happened and D+1 the day afterwards, whether it had happened on 5th, 6th or 30th June 1944 (or any other date). Otherwise orders issued after the landings (when the actual date of D was known) would conflict with those issued before (when it was not). Regarding the French translation ‘Jour J’, I wonder if this term is actually used by French military planner or whether it is merely a translation of ‘D-Day’ when applied to Overlord. The only time I see it is in French books about Overlord but I am not familiar with much in the way of French military operations so can anyone who is elaborate? Unrelated, did anyone see Malta Story on the TV here yesterday? Lots of nice footage of pom-poms in action on the Pedestal convoy although the supposed minelayer HMS Welshman had a twin 5.25” turret! I see The Cruel Sea is on today, so a good week for the RN/RNVR types. Robert Lockie Swindon UK Hi Rob, No, I haven't seen Malta Story yet - does just finishing reading "Malta 1565 - The Last battle of the Crusades" and "Knights Hospitallar Vol 2" count ;-) Will have to keep an eye out for that - it sounds good. Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Cbagenciesuk@aol.com Subject Ford class SDBs There was a request by"lambkeel" about Ford class SDBs. I served on three Ford class in the South African Navy. If the correspondent wants any info kindly contact me. Clive Baldwin ex CPO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume